Big Bend Chat

Big Bend Community => All the Other Towns.... => Topic started by: Jalco on December 12, 2016, 04:53:11 PM

Title: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Jalco on December 12, 2016, 04:53:11 PM
Came across this today
http://www.yourstephenvilletx.com/news/20161211/local-hunter-bags-monster-mountain-lion

I can't say I'm really crazy about taking down something that I'm not going to eat.
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Txlj on December 12, 2016, 05:07:49 PM
 Being on the other end of the food chain wouldn't be fun either. But  I do agree with eating what you take.

Sent from flat land

Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: dprather on December 12, 2016, 05:49:58 PM
I hunt, but I won 't take a cat.

I passed on a big bobcat two seasons ago.  For some reason, I just feel like the cats and I are equal partners.  It's their place too.

Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: bracketboy89 on December 12, 2016, 05:58:02 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

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Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: badknees on December 12, 2016, 07:35:42 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

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Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: bracketboy89 on December 12, 2016, 07:52:40 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

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Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.
Perhaps so, but persecution of predators is an antiquated tradition with its roots based in when we truly were prey. That is not the case anymore. As for sheep and goats, there are effective ways to keep sheep and goats from dying (dogs, electric fencing, etc...) But those things cost money and more importantly WORK, planning, and ingenuity and even still, domestic sheep and goats are often worthless at survival and pretty much prone to dying anyways. To many people are doing it grandaddy way but grandaddy ruined a lot of things....

My comment about wildlife services is more of a separate issue than hunting. Ranchers grazing on federal land have one hell of a deal already; one that the rest of us will never have an opportunity at even though we own that land too. Without getting to political, I would prefer that my tax dollars did not fund trapping of wildlife on public lands (blm, forest service) at the behest of large ranching lobbies. I also would like it if my tax dollars did not pay for a federal trapper to run lines on my deer lease which is on private property in Kinney County.

As far as lions in Texas, they deserve the status of a game animal with a regulated season. The puma is an iconic symbol of the west worthy of some level of protection.



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Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: mule ears on December 12, 2016, 07:59:13 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Big Bend Chat mobile app
Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.

I am sorry but it is no longer acceptable to kill cats/predators anywhere in the world.  We need the few animals that are left at the top of the food chain to do their job.  It is probably too late at this point but we at least should try to keep the ship somewhat balanced.

Before you all jump on me, I am a farmer, have a rifle to deal with varmits that eat my produce and try to eat my birds (deer, groundhogs, coyotes, neighbors dogs).  If we had more big cats (we do have big bobcats) I would have less problems with the others whose population is out of control in many ways because we don't have a system in balance.   :eusa_hand:
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: bracketboy89 on December 12, 2016, 08:08:44 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Big Bend Chat mobile app
Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.

I am sorry but it is no longer acceptable to kill cats/predators anywhere in the world.  We need the few animals that are left at the top of the food chain to do their job.  It is probably too late at this point but we at least should try to keep the ship somewhat balanced.

Before you all jump on me, I am a farmer, have a rifle to deal with varmits that eat my produce and try to eat my birds (deer, groundhogs, coyotes, neighbors dogs).  If we had more big cats (we do have big bobcats) I would have less problems with the others whose population is out of control in many ways because we don't have a system in balance.   :eusa_hand:
Exactly, 20 million white tailed deer in North America, more than ever before!

This is often told to brag about wildlife management of today and how far we have come, but hunters can't kill even kill the number of deer that are reproduced every year. The number grows every year, and deer are eating themselves out of house and home; destroying habitats such as the Hill Country, now devoid of critical shrubs and forbs in many places.

It is an unfortunate tale we have written regarding predators in North America. Aldo Leopold's description of the Kaibab Plateau and the results of predator elimination on the deer herd is something everyone should have a look at if you doubt the damage predator removal can do:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaibab_Plateau

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Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Jalco on December 12, 2016, 09:15:34 PM
hunters can't kill even kill the number of deer that are reproduced every year.

My sister owns a ranch just west of Pandale (a few miles away from where the big cat was killed).  They have a management plan with the state and are required to harvest a certain number of deer each year.  Sometimes it gets a little onerous, I'm told.
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: dprather on December 12, 2016, 09:23:18 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Big Bend Chat mobile app
Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.

you've got a point
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: bracketboy89 on December 12, 2016, 09:31:24 PM
hunters can't kill even kill the number of deer that are reproduced every year.

My sister owns a ranch just west of Pandale (a few miles away from where the big cat was killed).  They have a management plan with the state and are required to harvest a certain number of deer each year.  Sometimes it gets a little onerous, I'm told.
We are on a plan with TPWD as well and I will tell you people have no idea how many deer there are out there. The ranch I work on is 4300 acres in the Hill Country with approximately 400 deer on it. We are taking 70 this year. We took close to 85 last year. Now, imagine for a truly large ranch further out in the Edwards Plateau or South Texas Brush where high deer densities and large ranches co-occur. Imagine the 100's of deer that may have to be harvested each and every year, just to keep the range from going to s#+@ and the deer from starving. Hunters saying mountain lions will eat "their" deer just is not a valid excuse, yet I hear it often.

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Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Jalco on December 12, 2016, 09:36:00 PM
We are taking 70 this year. We took close to 85 last year.

Dang!  My sister and brother-in-law thought they had it bad having to harvest 30-45.
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: badknees on December 12, 2016, 10:19:07 PM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

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Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.
I would prefer that my tax dollars did not fund trapping of wildlife on public lands (blm, forest service) at the behest of large ranching lobbies. I also would like it if my tax dollars did not pay for a federal trapper to run lines on my deer lease which is on private property in Kinney County.
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I have a whole list of things that I would prefer my tax dollars didn't pay for, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

I suspect that habitat destruction and human encroachment are far greater threats to Felis concolor than the number of lions killed by hunters and trappers.  That should be the real focus.
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Jalco on December 12, 2016, 11:07:37 PM
I suspect that habitat destruction and human encroachment are far greater threats to Felis concolor than the number of lions killed by hunters and trappers.  That should be the real focus.

Granted.  I am dismayed and saddened, I suppose, by the fact that this cat had survived for so long, in the face of said habitat destruction and human encroachment, only to be taken down in order to be put up on someone's den wall.  And at such a disadvantage.  I might have more admiration for the hunter if there was some real contest involved.
Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Jimbow on December 13, 2016, 05:11:58 AM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Big Bend Chat mobile app
Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.
I would prefer that my tax dollars did not fund trapping of wildlife on public lands (blm, forest service) at the behest of large ranching lobbies. I also would like it if my tax dollars did not pay for a federal trapper to run lines on my deer lease which is on private property in Kinney County.
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I have a whole list of things that I would prefer my tax dollars didn't pay for, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

I suspect that habitat destruction and human encroachment are far greater threats to Felis concolor than the number of lions killed by hunters and trappers.  That should be the real focus.
Great point.

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Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: bracketboy89 on December 13, 2016, 07:27:30 AM
I saw a post online of a hunter that shot two females that were together near Van Horn. I work on a cattle ranch and hunt deer and would never shoot a cat. I have no tolerance for predator hunting. They are ruthlessly and indiscriminately killed in Texas not only by hunters but also nation wide by the wildlife services division of F&W service.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Big Bend Chat mobile app
Also a hunter but not a cat shooter.....however I might feel differently if I was a sheep and goat rancher.
I would prefer that my tax dollars did not fund trapping of wildlife on public lands (blm, forest service) at the behest of large ranching lobbies. I also would like it if my tax dollars did not pay for a federal trapper to run lines on my deer lease which is on private property in Kinney County.
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Big Bend Chat mobile app

I have a whole list of things that I would prefer my tax dollars didn't pay for, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

I suspect that habitat destruction and human encroachment are far greater threats to Felis concolor than the number of lions killed by hunters and trappers.  That should be the real focus.
Considering the low density that lions live at, I would argue that this is not the case. Sure habitat is destroyed constantly and we need to protect it, but development for example on the I-35 corridor is on the periphery of their range in Texas. In the Trans-pecos where there is the highest population of lions, I guarantee you that trap lines, hounds, and rifles are far more threatening to lions. They need to be protected with game status so that ranchers have an incentive for them to be here. It is the only way to afford protection on private land and even then you will have ignorant people kill them regardless.

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Title: Re: Big cats in the Pecos country
Post by: Jalco on December 22, 2016, 07:22:14 PM
Although a long ways from the Pecos or the Big Bend, I thought the following a nice addendum to my original post.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2016/12/22/Louisiana-confirms-first-cougar-sighting-in-more-than-five-years/4171482437262/?spt=slh&or=8