Planning a trip for first or second weekend of September

[vasnico]

I'm really impressed with the knowledge and information that this group has, the 1000 years of collective experience really shows.
My questions for my upcoming trip:
1. For early September, what kind of temperatures should I expect?
2. Suggestions for primitive campsites that fall within these guidelines: No more than 30 - 45 minutes (maybe 1 hour) drive from main roads, no adjacent sites, no headlights from road at night, good scenary (it would be nice to wake up to view a mountain), good stargazing, good staging point to leave and return to when touring during the day, and little vehicles driving by to get to other sites.
My vehicle is high clearence, 2WD.  It will be just 2 people, no children.  I would be using the campsite as a starting point for the rest of the park.

[Casa Grande]

Temps will likely still be hot during the day. Night time temps pleasant.  Bring some off, some places can get downright annoying in the late afternoon with bugs.  The bats will bring much pleasure at dusk from the bugs.

Good campsites: Glenn springs 2 is good. Although close to the road, no adjacent sites and probably won't see a soul on the road.   It'll be a good base camp because it's centrally located for some good daytime excursions in the desert.  Wide open views of the mtns.

Robbers roost will offer some outstanding views but not a good base camp due to it's location.  One way in, one way out. 

Others will commence their recommendations......

[jim2]

pine canyon 1 is pretty easy to get to and has a great view. p.c1 and p.c. 2 have been separated, with p.c. 2 moved up the road. pine canyon 5 is about an hour from the pavement and worth the drive. the sunset from either is something to see. robbers roost and twisted shoe are further out with great views also. you can day hike the dodson, the eastern side is beneath the south rim or hike up the juniper canyon trail also a cool hike.  i prefer camping on the east side of the chisos.

[Al]

You can drive to Fresno in an hour if you don't sight see.

Al

[catz]

"Primitive sites" are all in the desert; except for backpack sites, the Chisos Mountains only has the formal Basin Campground.  It will likely be fairly crowded because it will still be HOT in the desert in September, especially during the day.  The later in September you go, the better the temperatures will be--but I would still expect highs in the low 90's on September 30. 

That said, just about any of the desert sites will meet your requirements, even those few that are spaced close together (because very few people will be camping in the desert at that time of year and off-pavement drivers will be few, especially after dark).  The Chisos Mountains dominate the lower park and I can't think of any sites in that general area where you won't have a great view of them.  I personally like the sites described above (especially the Pine Canyon ones).   Which one you pick should be based mainly on where you want to spend your days hiking/exploring.  If it's "all over the park", then getting one along the main road west of Panther Junction is probably preferable--these provide readier access to the Chisos and the rest of the Park.  There may be some nightime traffic along the paved roads, but it will be very light and the camp sites are, for the most part, well away from the pavement.  Pick one that is itself not located on a route to some hiking major destination.  The Pine Canyon turnoff is not all that far from the pavement (maybe 20-30 minutes, then another ten or 15 minutes to the turnoff for the Chisos and another 15 to the Ross Maxwell Scenic Drive) and you would be almost guaranteed not to see anybody.  The hike into Pine Canyon itself, by the way, is one of the best and should not be missed, especially if there have been recent rains.  Of the Pine Canyon sites, #5 is the most remote, but it can be a slow drive to get to in a 2-wheel drive car.  I would stick with #1 (which is located right at the turnoff from unpaved Glenn Springs Road) or, maybe better because it's not right on the corner with Glenn Springs Road, #2.  Since Pine Canyon can be considered a "major" hiking destination--maybe 10 people a day--there will likely be a few cars coming along each morning and afternoon.  But they will all be gone by dusk.

Be advised that NONE of the desert sites have any amenities whatsover--no table, no grill, no water, no nothing--just a cleared off space in the dirt.  My biggest peeve with the Park is that they won't supply tables at at least some of the sites, but they won't.

[Homer67]

We checked out PC4, the new one, on our last trip this past April.  I like this one better than the other PC sites.  PC5 didn't seem as nice; I am glad we took the ranger's advice at Panther Junction! We saw no one, except a truck leaving Pine Canyon when we arrived.  A ranger did stop by to check our permit.  Is Glenn Springs Road open again? 
I had read that it was closed, as well as the Pine Canyon road.  PC4 was very nice, and there were two long Sotol stalks which worked well when using the bivy to add some cover to the side of our tent. PC4 is remote and no headlights will shine on you, even if someone drives by.
This was our first time to use the primitive roadside sites, and it felt like we were cheating!  It was nice to use our "Cadillac" set up with a cot, the zlite and thermarest! Of course we left the stalks for others to use...

Here is a photo of our cheap tent at PC4, as well as a view toward Pine Canyon from PC4:

[Homer67]

I would also like to suggest Terlingua Abajo.  It is not a long drive when reaching this destination when one drives down the Ross Maxwell by Santa Elena and continue to the end of the Old Maverick Road. 
I believe the Old Maverick Road is open from the south up to Terlingua Abajo; they may have these roads open again. This is a nice remote site, with a view of Santa Elena to the south, Terlingua Creek to the West.  It was a full moon when we were there, but I am sure there is great star gazing to be done when the stars are not obscured by the light of the full moon.
The drive up the Old Maverick Road isn't bad, and the road into Terlingua Abajo is very cool!  We take our old Tahoe Limited, which is lower to the ground than other Tahoe models; we had no problem driving in.There are some adobe ruins and pieces of a very old car there as well.

Here are a few photos:

[iCe]

Looks like I've been missing out. I haven't tried camping in the desert yet. Just hiking.

[iCe]

You can drive to Fresno in an hour if you don't sight see.

Al

That's the site by Mariscal Mine right?

[vasnico]

Thanks for the replies.  The Rio Grande Village showers, I believe are open 24hrs correct?

[badknees]

OPERATING HOURS Effective July 14,2011
Hours are subject to change without notice. For more information, please contact Forever Resorts at 432 477-2291.

Castolon Store 10:00am-4:00pm
Panther Junction Service Station 8:00am-6:00pm
Rio Grande Village Store 9:00am-5:00pm
Showers/Laundry 24/7
Chisos Basin Store 8:00am-7:00pm
Chisos Mountains Lodge
Desk/Gift Shop 7:00am-9:00pm
Restaurant: Breakfast 7:00am-10:00am
                  Lunch 11:00am-4:00pm
                  Dinner5:00 pm-9:00pm 

[elhombre]

PLEASE consider this carefully.  You MUST be comfortable in digging a deep enough hole, squatting over it, and putting your used TP in a bag to pack out in your camp trash.  If someone is going to start using these back country sites, you need to buy yourself a real shovel like this one http://www.fatiguesarmynavy.com/store/item/FA2414/GI_Stlye_Folding_Pick____Military_Shove  to bang your way down 6 inches into the rock. 

If you use these campsites with any frequency, you will begin to see the left over TP spread throughout the area as the sites become popular.  The old Rice tank was a good example.  Look around Paint Gap 2 and 3; PC4 will be the next example. 

My guess is, people get out there, look around, and think they are out somewhere far, far away.  And surely no one else comes out here often at all.  Therefore, what is a little TP hidden under a rock near the campsite going to matter......  Well, come cooler times, a popular campsite can be occupied by different groups 6, if not 7 days a week for 3 months straight.  That is more than most hotel rooms.

I rant every year about this, but I actually bring latex gloves and end up picking up others peoples trash when I stay out there because I don't want to look at it for the week I am out there.

With that said, if you only have 2 people with one tent, every site out there is pretty nice.  Once you get more tents set up, some sites are not big enough.  Finally, the rangers LOVE to give out tickets for people setting up their tents outside the camp boundaries.  BEWARE.

[Homer67]

This may help.  Here is a link to the Bibe website with rules, etc on primitive roadside camping:

http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/bc-roadsides.htm

Also, here is a link to the backcountry regulations:

http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/bc_regulations.htm

[vasnico]

elhombre, thanks for your input and to everyone else.  I have that exact shovel, but without the pick.  I'll take a drive down the local Academy or military surplus and get one with the pick attached.  I'll be the one doing the digging and covering up, my lady friend would probably look at me funny and say,"You want me to dig whatm yeah right."
I'm all about respecting nature, the park and others, I'll be prepared to and will pack out what I pack in.  I've been planning this trip for more than a month now and gathering the tools and equipment to make this a very pleasant experience.  I'm looking forward this trip.
Couple more questions:

1.  Fees?  There will be $20 for my vehicle and $10 for the primitive campsite?
2.  Showers?  How are the facilities?
3.  Hot springs?  Are they thermal waters?  Is swimming allowed in the Rio Grande?
4.  Sites to see?  I've chosen at the very least to visit the Santa Elena Canyon, The Window, Lunch at the restaurant, The Basin and the hike the Lost Mine Trail.  What other sites to see would you members suggest, I will have two full days, morning to evening.

I think Pine Canyon will be my best choice, thanks for your help and please chime in any other comments or input you may have.

[Al]

We use a hoe with the handle cut down to a couple of feet long for digging cat holes when camping at primitive campsites.  Works like a champ too. 

Wait until you hand the GF her own personal 1-gallon Ziplock bag and tell her she has to bag all of her TP even when tinkling!  She might not want to do it but if you walk around virtually any primitive campsite you'll find TP often times stuffed under a rock. Prior use of this TP is not hard to guess.  It greatly reduces the ambiance.  It would be a better world if everyone bags ALL the used toilet paper.  Makes for a better "wilderness" experience for you and your fellow primitive campers.

The fees sound right. 

Rio Grande Village or Study Butte is it for showers unless staying in the Lodge and they are pretty decent facilities.   We tend to use baby wipes/sponge baths with waterless shampoo when primitive camping, as needed.  Bring a 5-gallon collapsible water container (in addition to water for drinking and cooking) also available from Academy.  Saves a lot of driving and trouble just to shower.  Ask about the hot springs at Panther Junction and yes you can swim in the Rio Grande, as desired.

What are you driving?

Al