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Border Wall Story

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2017, 07:20:19 PM »
All the facts necessary to truly make a decision can't fit on a forum like this. This is a very complex situation that requires a broader discussion. But in today's world we try to make something really complex simple enough for a meme or tweet.

The views expressed may not be mine in five minutes.
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Offline Quatro

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 11:33:40 AM »
A wall through the park may in fact be in the plan.  It's not 100% clear whether this refers to the Big Bend sector (that's the correct name for the sector, right?) or the Park. But it's getting really close for comfort.

"And yet, an internal Department of Homeland Security report calls for a second phase of construction of 151 miles to include Big Bend, among other places; a third phase seals off the entire border. The wall could be as high as 30 feet.

While it may seem like building walls in Big Bend would be completely insane, that could be said about many of the walls that already exist, such as the section that cuts through California’s Otay Mountain Wilderness Area,” said Scott Nicol, a McAllen-based coordinator of Sierra Club’s borderlands initiative. “And the biggest challenge to Trump’s timeline is going to be the fact that Texas, where there are currently 110 miles of wall on our 1,200 mile border, is almost entirely private property. Land condemnation suits will take years, but Big Bend National Park and some remaining tracts of the Lower Rio Grande Valley National Wildlife Refuge down here are federally owned.”

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/with-land-already-hand-trump-eyes-big-bend-for-border-wall/wsOshEEM13x1NzXUPnu24M/

« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:40:03 AM by Quatro »
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Offline mule ears

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 06:08:12 PM »
Thanks for the link Quatro and the article is dead on right.  We all better hope that this madness perpetrated by the Madman in Chief and his corrupt cronies can be stopped but this quote says it all:

" “The wrong way to think about the wall is whether it’s tactical or rational,” he continued. “It’s entirely about politics and money: Politicians want a mile count. They don’t care if it works — and contractors just want the money.”

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Offline rocketman

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 06:17:26 PM »
This makes me angry. The Bend will become a wasteland if they put up a 30 foot wall. They may as well strip it's NP status and make it some preserve that no one wants to (or can) visit. I'd much prefer the burden of a few towers with cameras and sensors. Better yet, just fly drones at 20-30k feet up and down the river day and night. A 30 foot wall is so totally unnecessary.
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Offline elhombre

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 08:38:10 PM »
And where does the American Spaceman "newspaper" fall in the realm of news services?    :willynilly:

The story itself references a "report " which is nothing more that a news story by Reuters.  Where do they fall in the realm of news services?

Edited:  The facts remain the same.  The H.R. 6061 (109th): Secure Fence Act of 2006 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2006/s262 passed in 2006 with Hillary and Obama voting Yea.   Where were the exploding heads then?  How about over the last 11 years when the government was required by law to build their wall they voted for?  The current Executive branch was not responsible for passing this law.

Yes, I agree.  It will suck if they build the wall right down the center of the Hot Springs.  I had this same thought 11 years ago.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 09:21:30 AM by elhombre »
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Offline Quatro

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 10:00:41 PM »
Granted Reuters is certainly not Fox or Breitbart or Info Wars.  But the leaked internal reports have generally proven pretty accurate in the last 50 days for whatever reason.  I think the point of the story is that an administration looking to score a symbolic political victory but faced with prolonged condemnation proceedings may look to lands it already owns.  And an administration that has shown zero regard for the environment probably doesn't value park lands as we do on this board.  It has also been faithful to its campaign promises despite what its voters may have believed (ie. don't take him literally on all matters). Given all those things, I don't think its unreasonable to watch the issue very closely.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:11:11 PM by Quatro »
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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2017, 09:38:23 AM »
My 2-cents...

I'd very much prefer a "phased" implementation of a non-literal wall. 

That is, instead of building a literal wall first, perhaps they can implement electronic monitoring, drone monitoring and etc. to see if a literal wall in regions like the Bend is really needed.  Perhaps the success of a non-literal wall of increased monitoring by other means will preclude the need for a literal wall. 

For me, the issue is border security, not literal wall.
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Offline catz

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2017, 10:31:01 AM »
There you all go talking rationally.  We don't have a rational president, however.
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Offline GaryF

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2017, 12:03:44 PM »
"The H.R. 6061 (109th): Secure Fence Act of 2006 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/109-2006/s262 passed in 2006 with Hillary and Obama voting Yea.   Where were the exploding heads then?  How about over the last 11 years when the government was required by law to build their wall they voted for?  The current Executive branch was not responsible for passing this law."

I think the big difference was the limited scope.  Unless I'm mistaken, the barrier mentioned in the 2006 act was limited to a fence covering the sections quoted below. And even at that, it wasn't passed without quite a bit of dissent.

The folks on this board would probably mostly agree that a border wall through Big Bend would be absurd, but out in the real world we may be the minority.  Like the others, I'm concerned, and so far the current administrations actions have only increased those concerns.

From H.R. 6061
"Sec.3.  Construction of fencing and security improvements in border area from Pacific Ocean to Gulf of Mexico
Section 102(b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Public Law 104–208; 8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended—

(1)in the subsection heading by striking Near San Diego, California; and
(2)by amending paragraph (1) to read as follows:
(1)Security features
(A)Reinforced fencing
In carrying out subsection (a), the Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide for least 2 layers of reinforced fencing, the installation of additional physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors—

(i)extending from 10 miles west of the Tecate, California, port of entry to 10 miles east of the Tecate, California, port of entry;
(ii)extending from 10 miles west of the Calexico, California, port of entry to 5 miles east of the Douglas, Arizona, port of entry;
(iii)extending from 5 miles west of the Columbus, New Mexico, port of entry to 10 miles east of El Paso, Texas;
(iv)extending from 5 miles northwest of the Del Rio, Texas, port of entry to 5 miles southeast of the Eagle Pass, Texas, port of entry; and
(v)extending 15 miles northwest of the Laredo, Texas, port of entry to the Brownsville, Texas, port of entry.
(B)Priority areas
With respect to the border described—

(i)in subparagraph (A)(ii), the Secretary shall ensure that an interlocking surveillance camera system is installed along such area by May 30, 2007, and that fence construction is completed by May 30, 2008; and
(ii)in subparagraph (A)(v), the Secretary shall ensure that fence construction from 15 miles northwest of the Laredo, Texas, port of entry to 15 southeast of the Laredo, Texas, port of entry is completed by December 31, 2008.
(C)Exception
If the topography of a specific area has an elevation grade that exceeds 10 percent, the Secretary may use other means to secure such area, including the use of surveillance and barrier tools."

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2017, 01:44:48 PM »
I bow to you, GaryF. Nothing beats going to primary source material. Thanks


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Offline andrwtzel

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 09:04:00 AM »
The Bend already has a decent virtual wall. Sensors are in place all over the Bend. And even through some locals dont care for BP, they do a good job out there.

Sent from flat land

Have you seen the sensors or know how they work? I imagine they would pick up movement, but I wonder if they can differentiate between a human and a javelina. Or, if they also have a camera that can be monitored...I'd also guess the sensors would be placed next to springs and creeks?

Not doubting you at all, just curious.

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Offline The Scorpion

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 09:55:37 AM »
I tripped a sensor close to lake Amistad on hwy 90 a few years back with Stingrey. We saw some small furry critter run across the highway so we pulled over and ran across that dirt road border of patrol drives, when we got back on the highway about a minute later 3 border patrol vehicles came over the hill pretty fast with lights on and they pulled over in the area where we had stopped to look for the critter

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2017, 12:08:27 PM »
I tripped a sensor close to lake Amistad on hwy 90 a few years back with Stingrey. We saw some small furry critter run across the highway so we pulled over and ran across that dirt road border of patrol drives, when we got back on the highway about a minute later 3 border patrol vehicles came over the hill pretty fast with lights on and they pulled over in the area where we had stopped to look for the critter.

Yep. Same thing happened to me a few years ago while night-birding at the very southern edge of Santa Ana NWR in South Texas. Led to a fairly intense spotlight-lit encounter and conversation with some BP officers. Scared the beejeezus out of me for a couple minutes.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2017, 01:43:34 PM »
I think I musta done something like that late one night returning home from BIBE.  On the long stretch between Sanderson and Del Rio, I had to get off of the road and retreat beneath one of the bridges.  Returning to my truck, I had to explain to a guy in a green-striped Blazer who was standing by my truck why I chose that location for a bathroom break.  He was really nice.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself and to be amazed.

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: Border Wall Story
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2017, 01:51:43 PM »
Camping on the river with my z Scout Troop. They were playing capture the flag. Also known as mowing back and forth from the river. Suddenly we were visited by five or six black Suburban and a helicopter. Lol. They thought they had a big drug bust.

The BP were really nice,  showed the kids their weapons. 

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