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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it

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Offline Picacho

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« on: January 08, 2007, 09:22:23 PM »
Ok, so you want to use a backcountry camp for 1 night, it's $10.  Now let's say you want to camp at a backcountry camp for 14 straight nights, it's $10.  Now let's say you want to spend 6 nights out in the backcountry, stay one night camping at Rio Grande Village, then spend the next 7 days in backcountry camps, your backcountry fee is now $20.  Let's say you stay in Big Bend for 14 days and every other night you rotate between Rio Grande Village and a backcountry camp, your backcountry camping fee is now $70.  First of all this doesn't make any sense to me, secondly, if you are going to interrupt a backcountry camp with a night at the Basin or Rio Grande Village camping areas, why wouldn't you reserve a backcountry camp anyway and not use it so you don't have to pay more fees?  Are they going to match up your permit for the Basin and a backcountry camp to make sure you are not reserving two different spots so they can charge you an additional fee?  

Why not make it easy?  Stay at a backcountry camp for 1-5 days for $10, 6-10 for $20, or 11-14 for $30.   Or something similar.  Did they even think about it before they decided how they were going to charge fees?

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Offline elhombre

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 09:31:17 PM »
Amen, brother.  And the same kind of people are in charge of educating our children.   :cry:
For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline okiehiker

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education...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 10:24:09 PM »
apparently has been lacking for a long time.  

Quote
a permit is considered to be overnight backcountry use of one designated campsite or zone per night up to fourteen (14) consecutive nights. In Viper's case, as long as the use (zone & otherwise) was consecutive, it's just the $10 fee.


The fee is administrative.  Go in and get a permit for your visit, back-country, roadside, zone, campsite... whatever... pay one fee.  Come back in and have a new itinerary, pay a new $10 fee.  Come in with your trip planned, get your consecutive use permit when you start and you will not have to pay extra.  

The one downside of the way Eric described it is if you plan a few days in the park, a day out and then a few days back in you have to pay for two permits because the "use" is not "consecutive."  I could see someone keeping a site in their name an extra day or two in order to avoid the fee.  I suspect that the park service would accomodate a two=part itinerary with a break on one fee if the user says, "Hey I don't want to tie up this site... but if it will save me ten bucks, sign me up."  There no doubt will be some slight variation in the way staff apply the rules.  I have never encountered a business in which this was not the case.

The fee is not based on how long you are in the park, but rather on the use of time and administrative resources of park staff.  This seems equitable to me.  At many parks the use is based on how long you are in the backcountry.  This has no effect on the cost of operating the park and is simply a revenue grab by the park administration(s).  This does not appear to be the case at BIBE.
Funny... I have a story about that...

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Offline Picacho

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 11:12:28 PM »
I realize they need and are going to use the money to fix up the backcountry camping areas, but a system that makes sense is all I am asking.  In my above scenario, the cost would be:

14 days = $10
13 days = $20
7 days = $70

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Offline presidio

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Re: Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 01:34:31 AM »
Quote from: "Picacho"
Did they even think about it before they decided how they were going to charge fees?


No

(arguably my shortest answer ever)
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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Re: education...
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 01:42:30 AM »
Quote from: "okiehiker"
At many parks the use is based on how long you are in the backcountry.  This has no effect on the cost of operating the park and is simply a revenue grab by the park administration(s).  This does not appear to be the case at BIBE.


I guess it depends on your point of view. It sure is funny that on all the other federal land agencies areas you can camp in their backcountry without even telling them you're there, much less having to get a raft of permits to go. Why is that the case? Only the NPS has the overwhelming internally-determined need to track and charge you for everything you do.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline betteroutside

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 06:45:45 AM »
Every year there are more BLM & USFS areas that are charging fees. Some of them simply for parking at the TH while backpacking. I can give you lots of examples if necessary.

PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 09:08:29 AM »
Look at it this way....

If you were going to a movie, it's $ 8.00 or so for a couple of hours....
going to six flags or Sea World for a day for 1 person $ 50 +....
going to a college football/basketball game....$ 40 and up
one nite in a motel  $75 and on up (closer to $100 and up)


GETTTING TO SPEND TIME IN bIG BENDS BACKCOUNTRY.




P R I C E L E S S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just my two cents.....and worth every penny  LOL


don't worry bout the small things-have fun

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Lemming_of_the_BDA

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Re: Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 09:08:53 AM »
Quote from: "Picacho"
Ok, so you want to use a backcountry camp for 1 night, it's $10.  Now let's say you want to camp at a backcountry camp for 14 straight nights, it's $10.  Now let's say you want to spend 6 nights out in the backcountry, stay one night camping at Rio Grande Village, then spend the next 7 days in backcountry camps, your backcountry fee is now $20.  Let's say you stay in Big Bend for 14 days and every other night you rotate between Rio Grande Village and a backcountry camp, your backcountry camping fee is now $70.  First of all this doesn't make any sense to me, secondly, if you are going to interrupt a backcountry camp with a night at the Basin or Rio Grande Village camping areas, why wouldn't you reserve a backcountry camp anyway and not use it so you don't have to pay more fees?  Are they going to match up your permit for the Basin and a backcountry camp to make sure you are not reserving two different spots so they can charge you an additional fee?  

Why not make it easy?  Stay at a backcountry camp for 1-5 days for $10, 6-10 for $20, or 11-14 for $30.   Or something similar.  Did they even think about it before they decided how they were going to charge fees?


The rest of the story: Your $20 park entry fee is only good for 7 days.   :roll:

Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 09:17:57 AM »
Ya'll....what is up with your'e complaining bout the minimal cost...pay 50 and have a yearlong pass and some of that money stays in they park..

Man, ya spend hundreds to thousands on gear and then are worried bout the tiny fees for us to use the place....

No the system ain't perfect-far from it, but quit the dissing and just go and have some fun....

don't go out and eat a few times to pay for this when you're back home if you're that strapped for cash....

or don't go...


It isn't that much to spend to have a good time in a most wonderful place ya know.....

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Offline Picacho

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 10:29:48 AM »
I already said I wasn't worried about the fee, I think the way the fee is implemented isn't very well thought out.  But if you think you're paying only $20 to get in, think again.  Everyone pays for our national parks through taxes.  $20 to get in and the other fees are just additional money we are all forking out, even those who don't use the park.  If you get a tax refund, the government isn't giving you free money, they are paying you back for your loan to them that you gave to them at 0% interest.  When you get your paycheck, do you look at how much the government takes out of it?   Maybe we should quit funding the national parks with our tax dollars altogether and go to a stricktly pay for use policy.  What would the fee to enter the park be then, $1000?

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Offline Casa Grande

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 10:58:40 AM »


it just keeps going and going and going..... :roll: can we at least keep these consolidated to one thread.....

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/index.php?topic=2705.0

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Lemming_of_the_BDA

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Backcountry campsite fees -- I don't get it
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2007, 10:59:24 AM »
Quote from: "The Trout Whisperer"
Ya'll....what is up with your'e complaining bout the minimal cost...


Quote from: "Picacho"
... Everyone pays for our national parks through taxes.  $20 to get in and the other fees are just additional money we are all forking out...


Couldn't have said it better myself.

 


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