Big Bend Chat

Big Bend National Park Q&A => Backcountry Camping => Topic started by: tnuge92 on December 20, 2016, 09:40:10 PM

Title: Primitive Campsites
Post by: tnuge92 on December 20, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Hello, I am heading to Big Bend for Christmas weekend. Looking for a nice primitive campsite accessible by standard car. I've camped at Grapevine twice. I liked it, but would like to try something different. Any suggestions?


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: dprather on December 20, 2016, 09:58:43 PM
some of the Pine Canyon sites?
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Flash on December 20, 2016, 10:03:17 PM
or K-bar or Nugent Mountain or Croton Springs or Hannold Draw...
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: tnuge92 on December 20, 2016, 10:47:24 PM
Cool. I noticed some others discussing same question. Think I'll try the Pine Canyon sites. Thank you.


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Jimbow on December 21, 2016, 12:49:23 AM
I've always enjoyed the Pine Canyon sites.
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: tnuge92 on December 21, 2016, 07:55:12 AM
Thanks all!!


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: tnuge92 on December 21, 2016, 07:59:38 AM
Another unrelated question, a few friends that have visited Big Bend several times strongly suggested bringing a firearm for protection. Last time I visited, I brought one, but it seemed pointless because it was always stored away in the car. The only exception being that I had it in the tent overnight. Do you think this is necessary?


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: dprather on December 21, 2016, 08:12:22 AM
If you camp at a Pine Canyon site, treat yourself to the Pine Canyon Trail.  It is four miles total (2 in and 2 back out).  Many think of it as the most interesting trail into the (semi) High Chisos.  The trail takes you up through several "bio-zones" as increasing elevation changes plant life.

Regarding a firearm, that is another eternal debate.  Opinions on here about taking firearms for personal protection in the wilds echo the opinions about firearms for personal protection in society in general. 
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: jasonmerlo on December 21, 2016, 08:37:44 AM
Just walked Pine Canyon Trail for the first time a couple weeks ago. It is beautiful. The walk in is uphill all the way and It gets steep at the end.


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: elhombre on December 21, 2016, 08:55:15 AM
Pine Canyon #1 has the dubious fame of being one of the places a murder occurred.

If you are legally carrying and know how to use it, then we are all safer.

I never hike with mine, but it's always beside me with it's pretty glowing green dots for me to see when I open my eyes up at night inside my tent.

The Big Bend area is getting more popular with the illegals.  http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/11/28/cartels-flood-remote-border-sector-migrants-overwhelm-u-s-agents/
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Don H on December 21, 2016, 09:46:27 AM
Actually the murder occurred at the PC 2 site which back then was PC 1 & 2, PC1 was moved to it's present position just east of the PC2.  PC1 has a great view of Nugent Mt, Pine Canyon, Crown, and the Sierra Del Carmens, it's one of my favs!
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: tnuge92 on December 21, 2016, 09:46:51 AM
Thanks all. I appreciate the suggestion of Pine Canyon Trail and will definitely hike it. Also, the thoughts on carrying a firearm. Somehow, the remoteness makes me inclined to carry one, although common sense tells me it's probably 1000 times safer than my neighborhood, in which I travel frequently with no firearm.


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: dprather on December 21, 2016, 10:04:53 AM
I'm with ElHombre - mine helps me sleep at night
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: badknees on December 21, 2016, 10:21:39 AM
Carrying while backpacking, no, to the extra weight.
Car camping...absolutel y yes.
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: dprather on December 21, 2016, 10:43:32 AM
Here we go...

I'll share a recent firearm-in-the-wilds anecdote.

Full disclosure: I almost always carry concealed; I do not support open carry. 

At T-giving, my wife and I took our best and oldest friends to the Bend (we had a great time).  They are both suburban social progressives; she more so than he.  She is not anti-gun, but is generally suspicious/derisive of self defense with firearms, until...

At various times on the trip (walking into a sketchy late-night diner, star gazing at a very lonely place in the park late at night, far along a back-country trail) she asked my wife, "Is dprather carrying?"  Being informed by my wife that I was, she replied, "Good." 
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: mule ears on December 21, 2016, 11:22:09 AM
Also, the thoughts on carrying a firearm. Somehow, the remoteness makes me inclined to carry one, although common sense tells me it's probably 1000 times safer than my neighborhood, in which I travel frequently with no firearm.
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True that about relative safety and of course breibart news is hardly a reliable source of info.  While crossings are up a bit all across the border the Big Bend sector still has the least apprehensions of any sector from the Border Patrol itself (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016)
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: dprather on December 21, 2016, 11:54:23 AM
Also, the thoughts on carrying a firearm. Somehow, the remoteness makes me inclined to carry one, although common sense tells me it's probably 1000 times safer than my neighborhood, in which I travel frequently with no firearm.
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True that about relative safety and of course breibart news is hardly a reliable source of info.  While crossings are up a bit all across the border the Big Bend sector still has the least apprehensions of any sector from the Border Patrol itself (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016)

I'm guessing that "The Big Bend Sector" does not exactly correspond to "Big Bend" as understood by most here on BBC.

I'm also guessing that there is no sure source of info about what takes place between, say, Lajitas and, say, La Linda.

The specific Lajitas/La Linda area is quite a different picture than from the general Del Rio/Presidio area. 

I'm still not convinced that the drug/people smuggling business inside the Lajitas/La Linda arc could be that good due to (i) the desolate nature of the countryside south of the Border there, and to (ii) transportation limitations south and north of the Border there. 

I have not hard evidence for my "convinced." I guess I'm just guessing and hoping.  Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: jasonmerlo on December 21, 2016, 12:15:33 PM
Cliffs on the murder?


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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Flash on December 21, 2016, 12:20:53 PM
Cliffs on the murder?
Camper was found dead of a gunshot wound. It was deemed murder, but the case remains unsolved. See the book "Death in Big Bend" for details.
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: mule ears on December 21, 2016, 12:42:49 PM
Also, the thoughts on carrying a firearm. Somehow, the remoteness makes me inclined to carry one, although common sense tells me it's probably 1000 times safer than my neighborhood, in which I travel frequently with no firearm.
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True that about relative safety and of course breibart news is hardly a reliable source of info.  While crossings are up a bit all across the border the Big Bend sector still has the least apprehensions of any sector from the Border Patrol itself (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016)

I'm guessing that "The Big Bend Sector" does not exactly correspond to "Big Bend" as understood by most here on BBC.

I'm also guessing that there is no sure source of info about what takes place between, say, Lajitas and, say, La Linda.

The specific Lajitas/La Linda area is quite a different picture than from the general Del Rio/Presidio area. 

I'm still not convinced that the drug/people smuggling business inside the Lajitas/La Linda arc could be that good due to (i) the desolate nature of the countryside south of the Border there, and to (ii) transportation limitations south and north of the Border there. 

I have not hard evidence for my "convinced." I guess I'm just guessing and hoping.  Am I wrong?

It goes a bit farther up river, past Presidio but not much farther down river than La Linda.  Sector Map (https://www.wola.org/files/images/el_paso_graphics/nine_border_sectors.png)
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: GaryF on December 21, 2016, 02:31:53 PM
Cliffs on the murder?

A few more details are here: http://libit.sulross.edu/archives/marfanews/sent94-04/1994-11-10.pdf  (Look on page 2)

Probably worth mentioning that his gun and wallet were missing, I've always wondered if he was shot with his own weapon.  I was in the park for most of the month of November 1994, traveling around by bicycle and doing day hikes. I was unaware when I rode up the Glenn Springs road the day after Mr Monroe was found, but did notice the increase in park rangers in the area.

Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: elhombre on December 21, 2016, 02:50:03 PM

Also, the thoughts on carrying a firearm. Somehow, the remoteness makes me inclined to carry one, although common sense tells me it's probably 1000 times safer than my neighborhood, in which I travel frequently with no firearm.
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True that about relative safety and of course breibart news is hardly a reliable source of info.  While crossings are up a bit all across the border the Big Bend sector still has the least apprehensions of any sector from the Border Patrol itself (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016)

Looking at the government site referenced, https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Sep/BP%20Southwest%20Border%20Family%20Units%20and%20UAC%20Apps%20-%20August.pdf    Numbers increased from 165 in 2014, to 580 in 2015, and 959 in 2016 in the BB sector.  Now Brietbart is reporting just for the first two months of this fiscal year, along the entire border, there has been a 230% increase over last year.  http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/12/19/migrant-family-border-apprehensions-230-percent-period-last-year/

Not trying to say they are telling the truth all the time and I'm not trying to pick a fight, but it is a source for border news that gets ignored by the other main stream media outlets.  I'm going to guess this kind of stuff is not known by most people in the US.   This is going on right next door and we allow the exact same people to come across all day long, and live in our "sanctuary cities".   http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/11/29/graphic-video-mexican-cartel-border-preps-incinerate-victims-hacked-bodies-plays-soccer-head/
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: RichardM on December 21, 2016, 03:45:54 PM

Also, the thoughts on carrying a firearm. Somehow, the remoteness makes me inclined to carry one, although common sense tells me it's probably 1000 times safer than my neighborhood, in which I travel frequently with no firearm.
Sent from my iPhone using Big Bend Chat (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88143)

True that about relative safety and of course breibart news is hardly a reliable source of info.  While crossings are up a bit all across the border the Big Bend sector still has the least apprehensions of any sector from the Border Patrol itself (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2016)

Looking at the government site referenced, https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Sep/BP%20Southwest%20Border%20Family%20Units%20and%20UAC%20Apps%20-%20August.pdf    Numbers increased from 165 in 2014, to 580 in 2015, and 959 in 2016 in the BB sector.  Now Brietbart is reporting just for the first two months of this fiscal year, along the entire border, there has been a 230% increase over last year.  http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/12/19/migrant-family-border-apprehensions-230-percent-period-last-year/

Not trying to say they are telling the truth all the time and I'm not trying to pick a fight, but it is a source for border news that gets ignored by the other main stream media outlets.  I'm going to guess this kind of stuff is not known by most people in the US.   This is going on right next door and we allow the exact same people to come across all day long, and live in our "sanctuary cities".   http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/11/29/graphic-video-mexican-cartel-border-preps-incinerate-victims-hacked-bodies-plays-soccer-head/
Speaking as Moderator, how about we forgo arguments about illegal alien traffic statistics unless it is directly related to a specific primitive campsite. Otherwise I'll have to split off a new topic and wait for it to get overheated.  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: dprather on December 21, 2016, 04:01:37 PM
Apologies
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: mule ears on December 21, 2016, 06:44:41 PM
I'm done. 
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Txlj on December 21, 2016, 07:34:38 PM
As everyone know opinions are like elbows. Mine has always been to have and not need than need and not have. I've been Bending since 2002 and although I've never need mine, there have been a few time I was glad it was there. Twice with people that appeared from no where in my camp and one with a kitty that scared the crap out of me. With the kitty, If it went bad I doubt I could have done anything, nature always wins. The other two, once seen, the problem left.
Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Jimbow on December 21, 2016, 09:35:12 PM
We become comfortable in certain places that may be more dangerous.

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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Txlj on December 22, 2016, 12:50:24 AM
You are correct sir. I know when we are in the Bend, my guard comes down a bit. At times because it is so far removed from my norm and the dangers of the city aren't present we think.  We go to relax, tune out the world and recharge and have time to think and see the beauty around us. Im not saying danger is around every corner, but when Bending, we have a tendency to not think as clearly when it comes to safety. Having worked the area I can say it is much safer than any city I know of but danger is still there. From drug runners, illegals, drunks and a number of other sources.

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Title: Re: Primitive Campsites
Post by: Txlj on December 22, 2016, 12:52:35 AM
But in closing, please let me say there is no other place I had rather be. There's a sweet spot on top of Hen egg where I go to see God every trip out.

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