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Terlingua Ranch Road?

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Offline rocketman

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Re: Terlingua Ranch Road?
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2019, 07:04:12 PM »
All ranch roads are privately maintained and maintenance is paid for by the property owners association (POATRI).  For those that live in the city, think of it like the private lakes, tennis courts, pools and bike paths in certain housing developments.  They are maintained for the use of the home owners - not for the general public.

As an owner and part-time resident here in Terlingua Ranch, I do not appreciate people "exploring" the roads around my property unless they are my neighbors or they are researching property that is actually posted as "for sale".  The ranch is not a public park. 

And, although most of the land here is unimproved and used only occasionally by the owners, you should expect them to view you as trespassers if you are not actually a property owner and are not with a realtor. 

One exception comes to mind and that is accessing the Christmas Mountains land.  Permits are issued at the Ranch office.  I think it is understood by land owners that you cannot get to the access points without crossing private lands. 

(As a footnote, the majority of the Terlingua Ranch Road being discussed here is actually in Big Bend NP and therefore subject to park fees and park rules.  until recently, they allowed land owners to use the road if they were going directly to property in the ranch, but now you are required to pay the park admission fee even if you are only driving through to your land.)

Excellent post from a property owner's perspective. Thank you, and I feel the same way.
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Offline presidio

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Re: Terlingua Ranch Road?
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2019, 11:25:48 AM »
Presidio....Whenever I go to Big Bend I always drive around on TR roads, looking for that perfect piece of property that would allow me to camp without the burden of dealing with NPS campground fees, regulations and oversight.   Does this mean that theoretically you could park along the side of the road on the section of road that is not Big Bend without Ranger jurisdiction. I.e. that stretch of road that is going through private property.

No. Because once you leave the roadbed, you are on private property. Those TR roads are not like public routes that have easements/rights-of-way wider than the travel surface. That of course begs the question about waterbars and drainage turnouts that intrude onto the private property. Fundamentally, they are not part of the travel surface so parking on them without owner permission clearly would be a case of trespassing.
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline LinuxGeek28

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Re: Terlingua Ranch Road?
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2019, 12:29:32 PM »
No. Because once you leave the roadbed, you are on private property. Those TR roads are not like public routes that have easements/rights-of-way wider than the travel surface. That of course begs the question about waterbars and drainage turnouts that intrude onto the private property. Fundamentally, they are not part of the travel surface so parking on them without owner permission clearly would be a case of trespassing.

It is incorrect to say "TR roads are not like public routes"

TR roads are 100% PRIVATE roads maintained by POATRI. They are paid for by the land owners and maintained so that land owners can get to their property.  Think of them as shared driveways with private maintenance.  Within the boundaries of the ranch, the only exceptions are those roads that are maintained by the county (paved Terlingua Ranch road).  Unless you are with a realtor/buying land, please stay on the main roads and don't go exploring.  Otherwise, you are trespassing.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Terlingua Ranch Road?
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2019, 01:37:53 PM »
No. Because once you leave the roadbed, you are on private property. Those TR roads are not like public routes that have easements/rights-of-way wider than the travel surface. That of course begs the question about waterbars and drainage turnouts that intrude onto the private property. Fundamentally, they are not part of the travel surface so parking on them without owner permission clearly would be a case of trespassing.

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It is incorrect to say "TR roads are not like public routes"

They certainly "are not" like public routes. If they were 'public routes' non of the controversy about use would exist.

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TR roads are 100% PRIVATE roads maintained by POATRI. They are paid for by the land owners and maintained so that land owners can get to their property.  Think of them as shared driveways with private maintenance.  Within the boundaries of the ranch, the only exceptions are those roads that are maintained by the county (paved Terlingua Ranch road).  Unless you are with a realtor/buying land, please stay on the main roads and don't go exploring.  Otherwise, you are trespassing.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but there is no legal interpretation that supports your contention.

I agree, and have said so, that leaving the extensive road network to drive upon a branching 'driveway' (I use the term loosely as some are quite lengthy) clearly is a trespass. Driving down a ranch-maintained road is not trespass. You are encouraged and welcome to cite legal justification for your position, but umbrage at someone using a community road through your property (unless you are the last tract, in which case the community part ends at your property line) does not case law make. I stake my opinion on that very absence of any legal determination regarding who may drive thereupon.

And, while you are correct the roads are 'private' (because of their genesis and lack of public dedication) their nature as a community transportation network necessitates that they are not 'private' in the strict sense of the word. They ARE 'private' in the context that no public money (tax revenue) is used to maintain them.

If these roads are strictly private, pray tell how you ever were able to traverse any of them to find the tract you bought (a situation/question I have posed in other threads on this topic)?

Your interpretation means every single prospective buyer must trespass across every tract they traverse in their search for a purchasable tract.

Thus, you yourself were a trespasser prior to purchasing. A very inconvenient fact using the scenario you present.

No logical thought process can sustain your premise that only an owner may use such a road.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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