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How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend

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Offline presidio

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2018, 09:30:33 PM »
The last major shutdown resulted in the biggest SAR event BBRSP has ever seen. If you do come to BBRSP make good decisions and stay safe.

http://bigbend.arkansasonline.com/

Yes, but that event was precipitated by the NPS forcing their typical inept clientele out of the safety and comfort zone of hand-holding services. Between the NPS and folks completely out of their element (and not understanding their self-image of 'experienced' desert users...was anything but), they nearly died.

They were damned lucky.

They do get a gold star for telling their story, but the lesson likely was/is lost on those most in need of the cautionary tale.

However, reading their story does not instill confidence that even they actually learned the lesson.

Peshaw, this is an extreme reach even for you,

What exactly did I misstate?
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Offline Al

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2018, 09:48:54 AM »
https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/government-shutdown.htm

The park will remain open but no permits will be issued so no backpacking or primitive camping.  I wonder about the Boquillas crossing?

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Offline mule ears

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2018, 10:25:54 AM »
https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/government-shutdown.htm

The park will remain open but no permits will be issued so no backpacking or primitive camping.  I wonder about the Boquillas crossing?
I wonder why you can't just head into the Backcountry?

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Online Flash

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2018, 10:50:05 AM »
https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/government-shutdown.htm

The park will remain open but no permits will be issued so no backpacking or primitive camping.  I wonder about the Boquillas crossing?
I wonder why you can't just head into the Backcountry?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Big Bend Chat mobile app

Little known that there is a self-service kiosk at Persimmon Gap where one might make a stretch and issue themselves a River Permit and code it for back country instead. Essentially the same form. Fee gets paid. Rules get issued. Might actually work. Again might be a stretch.  ;)

Update: I learned the self-permitting at the Persimmon Gap Visitor Center is for the Lower Canyons only. Oh, well.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 04:28:35 PM by Flash »

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Offline Al

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2018, 01:04:18 PM »
https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/government-shutdown.htm

The park will remain open but no permits will be issued so no backpacking or primitive camping.  I wonder about the Boquillas crossing?
I wonder why you can't just head into the Backcountry?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Big Bend Chat mobile app

You could but that would be a violation of the regulations unless your permit was already issued. But they will not be issuing any additional permits They conclude in all caps: ALL PARK REGULATIONS REMAIN IN EFFECT
AND WILL BE ENFORCED.

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Offline elhombre

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2018, 07:19:18 PM »
If I am held to a standard that I must have a permit even though no one is being paid to issue me one, then I would say those rangers need to get the hell out of the public housing that no one is paying for also.  If I'm some how a squatter and need a ticket from LE, then the rangers are also trespassing on the same government property that is closed due to no oversight/ funding.

It's so chicken poop! 

Exactly how those rangers run the place.....

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Offline presidio

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2018, 08:51:05 PM »
those rangers need to get the hell out of the public housing that no one is paying for also.

While there is much to dislike about the NPS method of operation, where provided federal employee housing is not free, but is charged at a rate approximating fair market value (a number perhaps harder to establish in a remote location like Big Bend where there is little comparable accommodations in the immediate area).

A quick search produced this document, which lays it all out: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwikst2F97TfAhXum-AKHfGhDvEQFjAAegQIChAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F11%2FCircular-045.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1fsEk__wUzFSVl6ppVxxBe
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--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Losthiker68

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2018, 05:23:18 PM »
If they have't re-opened the government by the time I'm planning on doing my BiBe trip, I may come anyway.

The roads will still be open so I can see most of the park.

I know LEGALLY doing my planned OML hike would be against the law. But, realistically, what are the odds I would get in trouble and what would the fine be?

My planned OML is from Jan 4-8. I was planning a day, maybe day and a half of dayhikes afterward. I cannot push the trip back by more than 4 days because of my work schedule.

 
Take a course in good water and air; and in the eternal youth of Nature you may renew your own. Go quietly, alone; no harm will befall you. - John Muir

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Offline Robert

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2018, 06:24:10 PM »
Consider the rule on unattended property. They wouldn't necessarily have to see you in the back country to cite you. They could just look out for vehicles parked for over 24 hours. You might get away with leaving your vehicle in the lodge area but elsewhere it would be pretty obvious.

Leaving property unattended for longer than 24 hours is prohibited except for motor vehicles with displayed back country permit numbers parked at trailheads, along road side for zone camping or river access points.

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Offline nopainnogain

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2018, 12:51:32 PM »
i would not want to take a chance violateing NP laws.  what if they blacklist you if they catch you.
what if you are banned from Big Bend NP for life. that would be terrible!

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Offline Losthiker68

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2018, 01:02:19 PM »
I'm not going to do the OML if there's a shut down, I was just speculating. Instead I'll do dayhikes and put in some time at BBRSP, maybe do the Ranchieras Loop.

I was planning to stop at Seminole Canyon on the way down but was only going to hike it and skip the tour. I may do the petroglyph tour if I don't have to worry about being at BiBe at a certain time for a permit.
Take a course in good water and air; and in the eternal youth of Nature you may renew your own. Go quietly, alone; no harm will befall you. - John Muir

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Offline dprather

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2018, 02:14:47 PM »
I'm not going to do the OML if there's a shut down, I was just speculating. Instead I'll do dayhikes and put in some time at BBRSP, maybe do the Ranchieras Loop.

I was planning to stop at Seminole Canyon on the way down but was only going to hike it and skip the tour. I may do the petroglyph tour if I don't have to worry about being at BiBe at a certain time for a permit.

Head's up - the Rancherias Loop is a pretty tough hump and not appropriate for the less experienced, but there are other options at BBRSP.

Like you, I'm unwilling to take the risk of bucking the broken system. 

Give the good people at the Barton Warnock Center at BBRSP a call.  They helped me this AM make some decisions.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline presidio

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2018, 03:24:38 PM »
i would not want to take a chance violateing NP laws.  what if they blacklist you if they catch you.
what if you are banned from Big Bend NP for life. that would be terrible!

The NPS cannot ban you from anything. They can write you tickets. And their tickets (and especially permit violation tickets) are exactly like a parking or speeding ticket. Insignificant in the grand scheme of things: pay it, case closed.

While there are circumstances of being banned from public lands, it is exceedingly rare and it takes a federal judge to do it, not some employee wearing a funny hat.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Losthiker68

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Re: How would a gov't shutdown impact campgrounds at Big Bend
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2018, 05:08:21 PM »

Head's up - the Rancherias Loop is a pretty tough hump and not appropriate for the less experienced, but there are other options at BBRSP.

Like you, I'm unwilling to take the risk of bucking the broken system. 

Give the good people at the Barton Warnock Center at BBRSP a call.  They helped me this AM make some decisions.

Yeah, I read a trip report that I think was yours (got caught at the Reza in the rain?).  I saw its a tough hump so its just a thought. I'm just trying to plan an alternative if the shutdown is still in effect on Jan 4th. I was planning a quick hike at Seminole on the way down. If we still have the shutdown, I may extend about half a day there and do the petroglyph tour, then do BiBe dayhikes and maybe wander over to BBRSP.

I'll be going when there's no moon so I'm hoping for some awesome night photos. We even have a comet in the sky I can't find from Granbury (near FW) so I'm hoping I'll get a look at it as well. If I have to delay my OML until next year, so be it. I'm just crossing my fingers the gov't will get their heads out of their asses in time. If they are still shut down when I go, it'll be the 3rd longest so I hope history is with me.
Take a course in good water and air; and in the eternal youth of Nature you may renew your own. Go quietly, alone; no harm will befall you. - John Muir

 


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