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Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery

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Offline presidio

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2018, 11:00:49 PM »
The question is - what will be done now??

Not.A.Single.Thing.

Consider other border crime in the park:

The Border Patrol does absolutely nothing about the illegal entry by Mexican nationals stocking and selling trinkets at Boquillas overlook, Boquillas Canyon and the Hot Springs trail. Likewise, the NPS does absolutely nothing about the illegal vending occurring at those sites. They all know it is occurring and apprehending the perpetrators would be so simple that shooting fish in a barrel would be harder. Even a junior ranger could figure this scheme out but nothing is done.

I have seen these folks cross the river in both directions at Boquillas, and have even have passed several on the Hot Springs trail who were actively selling (while keeping an eye out for the enforcement that never happens).

However, let a tourist cross the border illegally or be seen buying a trinket from the unattended trinket displays and they are all over you.

I really don't care about the trinket sellers, they only are ignoring one of the many petty (in terms of penalties) rules the NPS has; the BP is a different matter insomuch that illegal entry is occurring (but it's obvious the entrants return south and are not staying).

What I care about is the disparate treatment and the complete avoidance of even a minimal appearance of enforcing the law. The trinket sites are illegal operations and the NPS doesn't even bother removing the items (hell, they even walk right past obvious contraband in their quest for tourist violators or entertainment opportunities) and thus fail even to remove the incentive for the behavior to continue.

It's all a sham process and, undoubtedly, if they are pressed about the situation they would claim lack of manpower (again, even as they ignore and walk right past the displays).
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline dprather

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2018, 11:32:36 PM »
...and a painted ranger jacked me up one time when she found out I intended to concealed carry on the trail...Priorities, Priorities...
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2018, 10:03:27 AM »
...and a painted ranger jacked me up one time when she found out I intended to concealed carry on the trail...Priorities, Priorities...

Well, clearly, it's easier and more important to question lawful behavior (and perhaps in the process find that a tourist might be violating something not obvious) than it is to pursue violations openly conducted.

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<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline elhombre

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2018, 10:11:25 AM »
The story that was always told about the incidents at Dominquez is the docile family and law loving Mexicans were coming across to inflict punishment on us Americans because the Park rounded up all of their horses and cows grazing our side.  They would come in and smash cars and steal easily carried stuff.  If you think "what's the big deal of letting their animals graze on our land?"  Then I remind you what the BLM did when Cliven Bundy wanted to continue grazing animals on "his" land. 

This latest is a different M.O. from what I have ever heard of.  It takes time to pack all of someone's camp up.  It sounds like they took everything including the "kitchen sink".  Not a job for a guy or two on horse back.  The Mexican criminals on their side that come across are no different than the criminals on our side. 

Now the question: is it is a justified shooting if you shoot someone in your house trying to steal your stuff?  The government recognizes your tent as a house, and because you rent the space for your tent via the permit fee, the law is required to get a warrant to search your tent.  Is it a justifiable shooting if you drop the SOB stealing your stuff out of your tent?  If they steal your water, are they not threatening your life?  Guess it will come down to the jury.....
For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline dprather

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2018, 02:11:39 PM »
The (few available) facts are confusing: who would benefit from taking an entire "suite" of car-camping equipment; who would not benefit from breaking into the car to at least see what was inside?

I'm curious about the speculations of our LEO contributors - it's raining and I'm all out of detective novels.

There is obviously a high expectation of not getting caught.

Some possibilities/impossibilities:

Terroristic Yankee teens/vandalistic young adults: they ought to be in school; and why would they bother to take camping equipment (the possibility exists that they would incriminate themselves by holding stolen stuff that they really have no use for) and not just vandalize things?  Home-schooled ruffians are probably out.

Itinerant ne'er-do-wells: some super losers are known to travel the parks just to take advantage of relatively cheap places to stay; they would have use for the camping equipment; but would they want to be caught holding stolen stuff?; would they want to generate heat?

Cross-Border raiders: if this happened, don't you think the Falcones would know it by now and would have perhaps already taken matters into their own hands?  The Falcone's rice bowl is a tidy little border with no hint of troubles that might scare Yankee dollars away from Boquillas.  I can't imagine them standing quietly by and letting some fool mess things up for them (unless the raiders were bored Mexican soldiers from the tiny little army base near Boquillas).

Passing-through Illegals (pardon my word choices) could use camping equipment, but could not use the extra weight; Border stories abound about these guys making off with food and water, but not with more stuff to tote.

Imagining that what happens in the Bend stays in the Bend, some middle-class, middle-aged White guys lost all reason and accountability.  It was a celebration of completing the ENTIRE Basin Loop gone wrong. 

All of the above assume linear logic and that the bad guys are smart.  All of the above assumes sobriety.

The distance, isolation, and desolation of the Bend seems like it would sort out and keep away the kinds of folks who do this kind of thing for fun.  They tend to congregate in suburbs, 'hoods, McDonald's parking lots, East Texas (I would not put ANYTHING beyond a pickup truck full of East Texas rednecks), and etc. 




Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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  • Backpacking since '78, Big Bend since '95.
Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2018, 02:19:37 PM »
You left out one possibility.    :helicopter:
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline dprather

  • Mountain Lion
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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2018, 02:22:33 PM »
The story that was always told about the incidents at Dominquez is the docile family and law loving Mexicans were coming across to inflict punishment on us Americans because the Park rounded up all of their horses and cows grazing our side.  They would come in and smash cars and steal easily carried stuff.  If you think "what's the big deal of letting their animals graze on our land?"  Then I remind you what the BLM did when Cliven Bundy wanted to continue grazing animals on "his" land. 

This latest is a different M.O. from what I have ever heard of.  It takes time to pack all of someone's camp up.  It sounds like they took everything including the "kitchen sink".  Not a job for a guy or two on horse back.  The Mexican criminals on their side that come across are no different than the criminals on our side. 

Now the question: is it is a justified shooting if you shoot someone in your house trying to steal your stuff?  The government recognizes your tent as a house, and because you rent the space for your tent via the permit fee, the law is required to get a warrant to search your tent.  Is it a justifiable shooting if you drop the SOB stealing your stuff out of your tent?  If they steal your water, are they not threatening your life?  Guess it will come down to the jury.....

As for morality, my CHL instructor told us never to defend stuff with deadly force (lives and personal safety, yes; stuff, no). 

As for the technicalities, anyone car camping in a desolate and lonely place who found themselves outnumbered by lawbreakers would have an awfully good defense to make about reasonable perceptions of deadly threat (I think). 

If my wife and I were alone out there and stumbled back into a group of people packing up our stuff, I think I'd (i) try to back away into the brush, and then if I couldn't back away to (ii) unholster.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline dprather

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2018, 02:23:54 PM »
You left out one possibility.    :helicopter:

Of course - a practice Black-op in preparation for a precision attack against a Bedouin camp.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2018, 02:56:56 PM »
Now the question: is it is a justified shooting if you shoot someone in your house trying to steal your stuff?  The government recognizes your tent as a house, and because you rent the space for your tent via the permit fee, the law is required to get a warrant to search your tent.  Is it a justifiable shooting if you drop the SOB stealing your stuff out of your tent?  If they steal your water, are they not threatening your life?  Guess it will come down to the jury.....

It all comes down to what is articulated about an incident, supported (or not) by whatever evidence is collectible.

_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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  • Golden Eagle
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  • Backpacking since '78, Big Bend since '95.
Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2018, 03:51:37 PM »
You left out one possibility.    :helicopter:
   

Of course - a practice Black-op in preparation for a precision attack against a Bedouin camp.

Oh, wonderful. Now I'm worried about being used as a Hellfire target next time I'm out there all by myself.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline dprather

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2018, 04:29:59 PM »
Once (late 70's) I was desert 4-wheeling in southern Arizona.  All of a suddenly the noise and tremors of the end of days came  over me.  I looked up and it was two A-10s flying low over me in perfect tandem.  I caught a look just in time to wave and the nearest pilot waved back.  A.W.E.S.O.M.E.  I just know those guys targeted my jeep for a fun run.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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  • Golden Eagle
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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2018, 05:08:06 PM »
A-10ís with the spooky faces. Yikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Big Bend Chat
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline wigfall

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2018, 06:00:58 PM »

...Cross-Border raiders: if this happened, don't you think the Falcones would know it by now and would have perhaps already taken matters into their own hands?  The Falcone's rice bowl is a tidy little border with no hint of troubles that might scare Yankee dollars away from Boquillas.  I can't imagine them standing quietly by and letting some fool mess things up for them (unless the raiders were bored Mexican soldiers from the tiny little army base near Boquillas)...


Hmmmm, the area south of Domungues trail head is in Chihuahua(Sinaloa, La Linea), the Falcons are in Coahuila(Zetas) and they hold not that much influence in even San Vicente and definitley not that far from Boq and that close to Sante Elena.  Different cartel JeFe's in charge on the Dominguiz side/ and the area is disputed between the MX droga peeps

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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  • Golden Eagle
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  • Backpacking since '78, Big Bend since '95.
Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2018, 06:21:06 PM »
That never occurred to me. Thanks, Wigfall!


Sent from my iPhone using Big Bend Chat
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline dprather

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Re: Recent Backcountry Campsite Robbery
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2018, 08:37:41 PM »
A-10ís with the spooky faces. Yikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Big Bend Chat

The most amazingly loud rumble EVER - I can still feel it.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

 


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