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Ward Mountain--need a photo

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Offline steelfrog

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2012, 09:01:22 AM »
Oh, maybe that's right.

Well, the gist was that I didn't appreciate "whatever dude" and that it seemed like a simple question that no one of the 1,000 years of Big Bend wisdom can easily answer.

Seems like some sort of game playing going on that I cannot comprehend.  But I don't really care abou it.

Bottom line is that I was told the now FOUR sources are wrong, but it seems to me the balance of the evidence I've seen is that Ward is in fact as identified on the picture on the sign at the Window View Trail.  That is, it is, in fact, visible from the Basin.

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Offline jeffblaylock

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2012, 10:48:04 AM »
Well, the gist was that I didn't appreciate "whatever dude" and that it seemed like a simple question that no one of the 1,000 years of Big Bend wisdom can easily answer.

Seems like some sort of game playing going on that I cannot comprehend.  But I don't really care abou it.

No games, steelfrog. We are trying to answer your question, though clearly not to your satisfaction. Let me try again to state why I believe Ward Mountain is misidentified on the Basin sign.

If you own or come across Hallie Stillwell's "How Come It's Called That," on page 32 is a map identifying Ward consistent with the USGS, and on page 33 is this description:

Quote from: Hallie Stillwell
Ward Mountain was named for Johnnie Ward who camped at Ward Spring at the base of the mountain when he was working for the G-4 outfit. (emphasis mine)

Ward Spring is not at the base of Pt. 5875, which is the peak I believe is misidentified as Ward Mountain. It is instead at the base of what the USGS identifies as Ward Mountain. This mountain is not visible from the Basin because Pt. 6847 stands directly in front of it, 100 feet shorter and 1 mile closer to the Window View Trail vantage point.

You may choose to accept whatever sources you like, and ascribe to them such accuracy as you wish. Personally, I choose the USGS, the U.S. Board of Geographic Names and Hallie Stillwell as credible sources, and these agree Ward Mountain is on the western portion of the Chisos Mountains, west of Cattail Canyon, and southwest of, and hidden from, the Basin.

My "whatever dude" comment, to which you took offense, was in response to your assertion that credibility comes solely from standing atop a particular mountain peak. If you disagree with my interpretation of the landscape, that's fine, but it isn't from a lack of credibility on my part.

I don't expect this post will settle the discussion, but I hope it at least contributes something useful to this discussion.
Jeff Blaylock
Austin, Texas

"We'll be back, someday soon. We will return, someday, and when we do the gritty
splendor and the complicated grandeur of Big Bend will still be here. Waiting for us."--Ed Abbey

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Offline steelfrog

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2012, 11:22:16 AM »
Another interesting pano; looks like it might be from Ward

http://www.lancesnead.com/zoom/ChisosBasin_Pano_04.html
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 11:53:27 AM by steelfrog »

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Offline trtlrock

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2012, 11:31:33 AM »
It's a trolliloquy...

 :icon_rolleyes:
John & Tess

"...and I'll face each day with a smile, for the time that I've been given's such a little while..." - Arthur Lee

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Offline Flash

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2012, 11:42:09 AM »
For what its worth. I glanced at USGS maps for 1903, 1931, 1959, and 1971. Ward Spring appears on all of them. However, Ward Mountain is not labelled as such until the 1971 edition. 

Looking at an old cartoon map of the Chisos Basin (1959), I could interpret Ward Mountain either as the entire area south of the Window and northwest of Laguna Meadows or as an individual mountain. If it was named for Johnnie Ward, then perhaps the spring may have been named for a father/grandfather? <-- Nevermind
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:53:28 PM by Flash »

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Offline badknees

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2012, 02:22:38 PM »
Direct quote fom NPS

"Did You Know?
Ward Mountain (6,925'/2,111m), which forms the southern boundary of "The Window" is named for Johnnie Ward, a cowboy who worked for the G4 ranch in the Big Bend area in the mid-1880s."
Not all those who wander are lost.
J.R.R. Tolkien

Through the Mirror
http://mirrormagic.com

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Offline Flash

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2012, 02:52:06 PM »
I like Johnnie's hat.  :great:

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Offline jeffblaylock

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2012, 06:53:47 PM »
Direct quote fom NPS

"Did You Know?
Ward Mountain (6,925'/2,111m), which forms the southern boundary of "The Window" is named for Johnnie Ward, a cowboy who worked for the G4 ranch in the Big Bend area in the mid-1880s."

The elevation is correct, but I'd argue that the southern boundary of the Window is actually Amon Carter Peak (5,688'). If you look in Hallie's book at the hand-drawn map on p. 32, it (Present-day Carter Peak) is labelled "Cattail Mt".
Jeff Blaylock
Austin, Texas

"We'll be back, someday soon. We will return, someday, and when we do the gritty
splendor and the complicated grandeur of Big Bend will still be here. Waiting for us."--Ed Abbey

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »
Well this has taken more energy than it is probably worth, especially considering steelfrog was up on those ridges last week but here is a pretty definitive thread and pictures of the whole Ward Mtn. question from 2007 by Picacho.

Good pictures, labels and routes.  At the very bottom of his first post is a link to a huge labeled pano from Ward and you cannot see the basin from there.

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/big-bend-photographs/southwest-rim-pictures-ward-mountain/
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
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no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

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Offline steelfrog

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Re: Ward Mountain--need a photo
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2012, 08:49:04 AM »
Hey--that's some good stuff!  Thanks ME!

 


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