Friends of Big Bend National Park
Big Bend Conservancy

Over-estimating your experience or under-estimating the terrain in a place like Big Bend can result in serious injury or death. Use the information and advice found here wisely. Climb/Hike/Camp/Drive at your own risk.

+-Calendar for sale

 2019 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!


Big Bend NP CLOSED!

  • 53 Replies
  • 13104 Views
*

Offline nita

  • Jack Rabbit
  • *
  • 29
Closure
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2013, 10:10:05 AM »
Moderator Note: I've attached this post to this topic, rather than starting another topic about the closure.

If you're blaming the park rangers for the park being closed you are misguided. They simply do what is mandated. And I, for one, like the visitor centers and the help we get from the rangers. Some people are not there for prolonged hikes or back country experiences. For others , much can be seen and enjoyed even by car. I've done long hikes and sight seeing by car and there's a place for both in our National Parks.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:49:09 AM by RichardM »

*

Offline badknees

  • Actually, I was there once
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4393
  • I think I know that place
    • Through the Mirror
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2013, 11:42:34 AM »
I would say it isn't about the money: 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115970922504940.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

This story is about locals offering up their money to open the parks back up, but the man won't have it ( bad servants, bad!).  To keep it about BB, do you think the locals in Terlingua (or Texas) would do this, and how much would they need?

What I meant by my comment, was: The only thing that will reign in the insanity is to limit the money to the irresponsible people that "represent" us. A budget would be a good start!
Not all those who wander are lost.
– J.R.R. Tolkien

Through the Mirror
http://mirrormagic.com

*

SHANEA

  • Guest
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2013, 12:25:09 PM »
relax everyone,  take your meds.   ;)

bibe isnt closed, its just taking a well deserved break :) 

the animals and critters are having a field day without people disturbing them    rabbits are multiplying in record numbers  the javalena are having a field day  lets give them a good rest! 

big bend has been around for either 6,000 years or a couple of billion years, so its not going anywhere....    :eusa_dance:

*

Offline venchka

  • Coyote
  • *
  • 101
    • My LUG Gallery
Big Bend N.P., October 5, 2013: Open? Closed?
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2013, 01:26:40 PM »
Moderator Note: I've attached this post to this topic, rather than starting another topic about the closure.

I lo 8)oked for any recent activity here about the closing of the Park. If this is old news, I apologize.
I asume that Big Bend, like all other N.P.S. locations, is closed. Is that true?
What is the current state of Big Bend N.P.?

Thanks!

Wayne
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 06:23:49 PM by RichardM »
Wayne
“Leave me alone. I know what I'm doing. K. R.”

*

Offline venchka

  • Coyote
  • *
  • 101
    • My LUG Gallery
Re: Big Bend N.P., October 5, 2013: Open? Closed?
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2013, 01:33:05 PM »
My computer must be jacked up.
I found a discussion of the park closing buried at the bottom of the Forum Index.
A big shame. While we have too many laws already, perhaps a nice sane Rule allowing the Folks to access THEIR parks in times of gummermint shortcomings is in order. Allowing folks on foot anywhere, aand bicycles on roads would be better than what we have today.

Wayne
Wayne
“Leave me alone. I know what I'm doing. K. R.”

*

Offline alan in shreveport

  • Golden Eagle
  • Black Bear
  • *
  • 824
  • Guinness is Good for You
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2013, 02:47:06 PM »
  What about a "movement" whereby everyone states their opinion of the current federales by using the only thing we have left - our vote. I intend , and urge everyone else , to vote against EVERY incumbent, regardless of their party - or yours. Lets force 'Term limits". How much worse could it be ?
  Anybody else ?

No.  The logic of dumping incumbents 'just because' and voting in newbies 'just because' is as productive as straight ticket voting.  Both ideas- in my opinion- point to a majority voting population that  really doesn't want to mess with issues.  Thus we are loaded down with a government full of uneducated talking heads that look and sound good for a party. 

I wonder how many of our leaders - outside of our Senators- have sat and read through George Washington's farewell address... even in 1796 that man was dead on.



  Brave ... you make a good point and I would agree with you if my suggestion was based on "just because". However , its based on the situation we are in , and not just the current shutdown (the coup de gras ) but all the animosity that is ever present in all things political and has been increasing for decades under both parties. Our current crop of elected officials can't seem to agree on anything and the good of the country doesn't seem to enter in to the decision making process. The current shutdown is a good example of this , both sides are more concerned that the other side gets the blame than actually fixing the problem. Its all sound bytes and energizing my base  and getting reelected. No budget for how many years now ? Ever increasing deficit and debt? We simply can't do that for the long term.  Lots of other important issues but those kind of cut through all of them ( in my feeble mind at least).
  Ideally , to me , we would have 1 term only for all federal elected officials. State and local too I guess but maybe each state decides that for themselves. The length of the 1 term would be open for discussion - maybe even different lengths for different positions. Take out the concept of reelection and pandering to campaign donors largely goes away. That may help, in  part, with Badknees concern about the money.  Its not supposed to be a career , its "public service". (Naïve concept I know).
  Since I don't see these guys voting term limits on themselves I suggested what I thought was the next best thing - vote them out and try somebody new. Could it be worse ? Maybe but I'm willing to give it a try.
  In lieu of meds I think I'll have a Guinness (per Dr. Doug) and some football.
   amigo ?
   alan
 
 
 

*

Offline Medic

  • Roadrunner
  • *
  • 80
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2013, 03:02:39 PM »
Parks aren't closed because of the government shutdown. They're closed for their annual remajestification:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/national-parks-closed-for-annual-remajestification,17484/
Remember, folks, it's 100 miles to the closest hospital.

*

Offline fartymarty

  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1153
  • Lovin' BiBe for 50 years.
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2013, 08:09:16 PM »
When I earlier thought that the roads would stay open, my thoughts were based on several maps (typical examples: {e.g1} {e.g.2}) that I've seen over the
years that continued to show the Highway designators inside the park, consequently I thought that Hwy. 118 ran all the way to
RGV and that Hwy.385 ran all the way to Panther Junction. I'll admit that I never saw any Hwy markers while I was inside the park so I guess I should
have done a little more research/thinking. Here is an email I received from TxDOT:
Quote from: TxDOT
Good morning Mr. [fartymarty],

US 385 and SH 118 (near Study Butte) both end at the National Park border (they do not continue into the National Park).  Since the roadways within the National Park are under their jurisdiction, they do have the authority to close these roads.

The news last night reported that Brewster County is working on something to try to keep the Park open.  They have a special meeting today to discuss alternatives/options.

Here is the link to the news article:

http://www.newswest9.com/story/23596149/brewster-county-holds-special-commissioners-court-thursday

Thank you

Fort Worth

*

Offline iCe

  • Random Pixel Generator
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1853
    • Wild Light Imaging Studio
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2013, 09:11:28 PM »
What a beach... and not the sandy kind either. I'm just starting my (now highly modified which means I have no idea where I am going to go for sure) 2 week southwest tour that WAS going to be:


(1) Ouray for fall color (still good on that one)
(2) Canyonlands Needles (nyet)
(3) Hovenweep (nyet unless we can get into the off site ruins... still under NPS protection though)
(4) Mesa Verde for a few days (nyet... this one hurt)
(5) Canyon de Chelly for a few days (private so effem, we are going as guests of the Navajo)
(6) Wander around other parks (nyet)


The balloon festival in Albuquerque soaked up all of the rooms so I came down to Socorro to have a look at Bosque de Apache. There are no birds yet so it was more for checking the health and well being of the refuge. In the morning I'll run up to ABQ, pick up my passenger for the next couple of weeks, and head up to Ouray...


I got this view at the bosque:



*

joetrussell

  • Guest
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2013, 01:08:44 AM »
I am setting at home having 1 or 6 adult beverages because I am one of the folks that was " supposed " to be in Big Bend this weekend, in fact I am supposed to be there until Tuesday of next week. I bet I would have enjoyed it. So, I sit at my computer and look through all the pictures of Big Bend I have taken over the years and think, dadgummit, this is not enough, I am supposed to be there this weekend, right now, heck, even till Tuesday. I spent so much time planning it I should bill the government for my lost time. Yeah, that won't fly.

Anyway, I figured this much out.

1. Big Bend is on the road to nowhere, you have to want to go there to get there, meaning it is not between point A and point B, it is not 5 miles off the Interstate between San Antonio and Los Angeles. That fact keeps the riff-raff out. Now I am approaching 62 but in my 20's and 30's I was going to Big Bend a lot and I was probably considered riff-raff back then. By at least a few people. But not by my wife, there is a lot to be said about being with the same woman for close to 40 years.

2. Big Bend is the most beautiful country in the American Southwest and I don't care about how pretty Utah, Arizona, Southern California ( Joshua Tree and the Mojave ) are, and they are beautiful, but Big Bend is different, we all know that and I can not quite put it into words. it is probably, for me, the fact that not many people go there. You can get that " Edward Abbey " experience, if you are are solo hiking, that feeling of being the only person on the face of the earth.

3. I am reaching my limit on adult beverages so I will end with this. On a trip to Big Bend about 40 years ago my wife and I hiked out past Mule Ears and found a place to pitch a tent and just set there, just set there, for two full days. We had enough water and food ( We were a lot younger, we could carry a lot more  weight ) so we just set there and took it all in, we did not do any day hiking, we just set there and talked, about starting a family, about what we wanted for our soon to be family, about what we meant to each other, anyway, that is what Big Bend has done for me. I know that sounds kind of stupid, it is just a National Park, a piece of land, but it is so much more than that, it is that refuge that you can go to, it is that, heck I will just go ahead and say it, it is one of the places where you can experience that higher power.

I started this post intending to say something about the politics of the shutdown but that went off the rails pretty quick. Sorry.

*

Offline desertflwr

  • Coyote
  • *
  • 101
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2013, 05:48:55 AM »
Joe, you need to get off the couch, grab your sweetie, throw your stuff in the truck and get out here.  There are still fun things you can do.  May I make a few suggestions?
There is the State Park.  And sitting on the Porch in the Ghostown with the locals in the evening, listening to some good music from the local musicians, and enjoying the view of the Chisos mountains.  You can make the trip down the River Road to Presidio and have lunch , and go across to OJ, if you have your pass card/passport.  There are interesting things to see along the River Road.  Take your sweetie shopping.   :icon_biggrin:  There is a nice hike in Study Butte named Indian Head.  There are lots of things to do.  I know its not what you had planned, but sometimes things have a way of working out better than we expect.    We can also hope the knuckleheads in Washington will quit playing politics and do what is right for this country and its citizens and end this impasse.       
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 06:55:40 AM by desertflwr »
...in the wild places man is an unwelcome guest but its here that I'm found and here I feel blessed...

*

Offline tjavery

  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1508
  • foto nut
    • http://www.thomasjavery.com/proj_big_bend
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2013, 10:18:31 AM »
I'm back home now. I was in the Big Bend area for the past 9 days.

Our photography group got shut out on our last full day of shooting. Here's a shot of us at the entrance on the west side:



BBRSP is a definite, awesome option  :icon_biggrin: More about that later.

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3495
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2013, 11:31:39 AM »
  What about a "movement" whereby everyone states their opinion of the current federales by using the only thing we have left - our vote. I intend , and urge everyone else , to vote against EVERY incumbent, regardless of their party - or yours. Lets force 'Term limits". How much worse could it be ?
  Anybody else ?

Sure, I'm in. But, the problem is the vast pool of idiot voters, which is how we got into this mess to begin with.

How do you convince people who don't have a clue to get one and vote responsibly?

It is going to take some real fiscal and social pain to fix these deeply-rooted, profoundly bad issues. I don't see anyone on the dole, or those interests that cater to that mindset, doing that to themselves.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3495
Re: Big Bend NP CLOSED!
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2013, 12:07:21 PM »
I would say it isn't about the money: 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115970922504940.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

This story is about locals offering up their money to open the parks back up, but the man won't have it ( bad servants, bad!).  To keep it about BB, do you think the locals in Terlingua (or Texas) would do this, and how much would they need?

Probably not. There's a pretty strong undercurrent of anti-government mentality (at all levels) in the community. Given the low economic status of much of the region, I don't see anyone volunteering to fund operations they usually fundamentally don't like (except for whatever direct financial benefit may accrue to their interests).

There's two issues here and they are not inextricably intertwined. The first and overarching is that the agencies have not been funded. That means they provide no services and their offices are closed. Entirely understandable, if stupid and lamentable.

However, the second issue is limited solely to the NPS...closing off access.

Except for the complete unwillingness of the NPS to allow anything to happen without their oppressive oversight, there is no reason why you cannot use those lands to hike, camp, explore. It is about control of you, not about anything else.

For example, yesterday I went on an all-day hike in a USFS wilderness area. There was no locked gate, no signs saying I could not use the land because the agency was unfunded, no "essential" personnel (that would be the law enforcement guys) there to tell me I could not go in or that if I tried I would be punished...nothing at all to hinder my access and enjoyment.

While hiking I encountered 4 other folks doing the same: enjoying federal public land without onerous restrictions, without permits and especially without fees.

None of us were in the least affected by anyone from the USFS being there or not being there.

We made all the fun we needed using our own devices and I guarantee we all were the richer personally for it. I was on a trail I never before had hiked. I had a topo map...that's it. No guidebook, no trail guide, no advice from funny-hatted people in visitor centers, no registering as precondition of using the land, no tips about what I would find (or not)...no information at all. It was a true voyage of discovery.

I had fun. What did all the Big Bend fans do at Big Bend yesterday? Why, absolutely nothing, because the NPS is a control freak agency and you were barred from entry.

So, why cannot you go and do the same at Big Bend? At least with respect to simply going in and hiking? Let them close the campgrounds (developed USFS and BLM campgrounds and developed recreation sites at those agencies ARE also closed, but access to the land is not denied).

Well, were you to find anyone to ask that perplexing question of, you would get the following:

a) they must protect the resource (that means from you)
b) they cannot provide services (why would you care if you are not going to use any of those services?)
c) they cannot ensure visitor safety and protection (from what?...the other agencies aren't worried about this).

So, in the end you would get a lot of drivel but no real answer.

Because the real answer is they have determined the public is too incompetent and stupid and untrustworthy to be allowed in their parks without their oversight. "Protecting the resource" is just the convenient and obnoxiously overused excuse to deny everything they don't agree with.

Of course, public incompetence and stupidity is partially a concern. The NPS has spent nearly 100 years carefully and deliberately dumbing down the outdoor skills of a huge percentage of the public that uses the parks. The goal, which the NPS has achieved, is to make millions dependent upon their level of care and created expectations of service and safety; expectations that routinely backfire in their face when they are sued for not preventing someone's injury or death, when those same folks usually are solely responsible for their plight.

That's why you don't see many of that same large percentage of the outdoor unskilled going to undeveloped USFS and BLM lands. It's just too scary and fraught with danger. So, they crowd instead cheek-by-jowl in NPS campgrounds and do those things the NPS suggests for fun in the myriad of guidebooks that tell you and the other millions which trails to hike and things to see.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:28:56 PM by presidio »
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3495
Re: Closure
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2013, 12:14:13 PM »

I, for one, like the visitor centers and the help we get from the rangers. Some people are not there for prolonged hikes or back country experiences. For others , much can be seen and enjoyed even by car. I've done long hikes and sight seeing by car and there's a place for both in our National Parks.

Fine. So why should you be denied the ability to simply drive through a park? No reason at all. It's in much the same vein as the NPS closing off public access to DC monuments that are open air spaces and immediately adjacent to sidewalks.

Yeah, the employees do what they are told, but they do it with a special fervor that goes way overboard in the poor logic department.

What are you, or anyone else going to hurt by driving from the Study Butte entrance to Big Bend to Persimmon Gap? Or anywhere else in the park on a paved (or even unpaved road)?

Why, not a single thing. And, you are using zero services.

_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


©COPYRIGHT NOTICE

All photographs and content posted by members are to be considered copyrighted by their respective owners and may not be used for any purposes, commercial or otherwise, without permission.

+-Calendar For Sale

 2019 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!

Powered by EzPortal

Facebook Comments