Big Bend Chat

Big Bend National Park Q&A => General Questions and Answers => Topic started by: roadtrip on August 19, 2019, 12:55:36 PM

Title: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 19, 2019, 12:55:36 PM
2 months until my trip, the Lord willing,  so the questions will be coming in fast and furious.
What kind of scale do you all use to weigh your gear?
I have a big warehouse scale in my shop that I can weigh things accurately from about 2lbs up. but now I need to get down to ounces.
I'm shooting for a pack weight of 30lbs or less.  I've done practice hikes, 25lbs is good, 35lbs is a burden and I find myself focused more on how i feel and not on my surroundings.
If I was to go today with my current gear I would be hitting close to 40 lbs. The big offenders are my Tent (7lb 1oz) and sleeping bag. (5lb and the compressed size the size of a small hassock)
Thanks, you all are an unbelievable asset.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: Flash on August 19, 2019, 01:21:33 PM
I have a digital package scale from Office Max or Depot... Also have a fishing scale for bulky things that don't sit well on the package scale and can be hung by the hook.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: Robert on August 19, 2019, 01:26:12 PM
I have a small battery powered digital kitchen scale that I use. Not sure what the max weight is but guess it to be 5-7 pounds. It's a little hard to measure large bulky objects but a good scale should allow you to put a larger platform on top (such as a big plate) and then reset scale to 0 to expand the footprint and provide stability. Also should be able to measure in grams and ounces as grams give you a more granular measure of the weight.

I'd definitely look to replace the tent and bag when you can. That's a ton of weight to be carrying. 

The scale will give you visibility to small items that seem inconsequential but can add up to a lot of weight.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: mule ears on August 19, 2019, 01:35:53 PM
I have a small battery powered digital kitchen scale that I use. Not sure what the max weight is but guess it to be 5-7 pounds. It's a little hard to measure large bulky objects but a good scale should allow you to put a larger platform on top (such as a big plate) and then reset scale to 0 to expand the footprint and provide stability. Also should be able to measure in grams and ounces as grams give you a more granular measure of the weight.

I'd definitely look to replace the tent and bag when you can. That's a ton of weight to be carrying. 

The scale will give you visibility to small items that seem inconsequential but can add up to a lot of weight.

+1 to this ^^.   This is exactly the set up and approach I use.  An empty card board box on the scale will allow you to weigh larger bulky items suspended above the surface.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: catz on August 19, 2019, 01:43:39 PM
Ditch the tent entirely.  A tarp is plenty and you probably won't even need that.  I haven't carried a tent on a desert hike in well over 12 years.

+2 on the kitchen scale for small things.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: Lissa on August 19, 2019, 02:08:10 PM
Ditch the tent entirely.  A tarp is plenty and you probably won't even need that.  I haven't carried a tent on a desert hike in well over 12 years.

+2 on the kitchen scale for small things.

Have you not been rained on?!? (Iím starting to think maybe itís me. I always seem to  get rain in the desert.)
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: elhombre on August 19, 2019, 02:29:48 PM
Screw the scale thing.  Put up your inventory list of ALL you plan to carry, and most of vultures can critique you with what you NEED, and what you should consider a LUXURY item.  Every item in backpacking needs to go through the litmus test of need, or simply taking said item to make the trip easier.  That way you can make the decision if you really want to carry it or not.    But be fore warned, there are many hyper sensitive  nerds out there who internalize the weight they carry when backpacking as if it is a reflection on their inner-self worth in this world we live in.  They will look down their noses at others who don't care about an extra # or two as if they some how are better because others are too stupid and carry heavy.  A 3 oz. difference in weight of a stove makes or breaks their backpacking experience.  I buy lighter stuff, (for more money), but I don't search out the lightest stuff just for the sake of it being the lightest.

Your best weight savings in the desert will ultimately come down to water management.

It really is about suffering.  Does the benefit of the suffering out-weigh the effort.    For me, I experience a geometric proportional increase in enjoyment when compared to the suffering.  And I will continue backpacking as long as that condition persists.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: DeserTrek on August 19, 2019, 03:25:55 PM
The 30lb pack weight includes the weight of your water and food right?

My winter pack weight is around 13lbs, while my summer weight is around 10-11lbs. Im not a gram counter or ultra light backpacker by any means. That said, a few extra pounds can create a huge impact on one's enjoyment and joints. In BIBE, I couldn't imagine carrying any more weight than listed above. Water is really heavy and essential out here.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 19, 2019, 04:46:22 PM
Ditch the tent entirely.  A tarp is plenty and you probably won't even need that.  I haven't carried a tent on a desert hike in well over 12 years.

+2 on the kitchen scale for small things.

Have you not been rained on?!? (Iím starting to think maybe itís me. I always seem to  get rain in the desert.)
Seems like the last few years, I get rained on hard every time I go camping. And it's never even forecast. One year I camped on the Brazos and got rained on for 2 days. The shuttle driver said it was the first rain in a year and a half. After I left they suffered another dry spell.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 19, 2019, 04:57:35 PM
The 30lb pack weight includes the weight of your water and food right?

My winter pack weight is around 13lbs, while my summer weight is around 10-11lbs. Im not a gram counter or ultra light backpacker by any means. That said, a few extra pounds can create a huge impact on one's enjoyment and joints. In BIBE, I couldn't imagine carrying any more weight than listed above. Water is really heavy and essential out here.

The weights I mentioned do include the food and water weight.
I'm spending 7 days in the park, doing two separate 3 day hikes. For each hike I plan 6 lbs of food (5 to eat, 1 emergency) and a gallon of water. I may go down a quart on the water if there's water in Fresno Creek and Boot and Juniper Springs.
Thanks
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: DeserTrek on August 20, 2019, 12:30:30 PM
Gotcha. Here is some equipment that I purchased for lowering my own pack weight.

-ULA Circuit- 2.3 lbs compared to my Gregory Baltoro 75 - 4.83lbs
-Yama Gear 1P Cirriform Tarp - 12oz paired with MLD Bug Bivy 2 - 7oz compared to BA Copper Spur UV 2 -50oz
-Removed my 15 oz Nemo Fillo pillow and used my heavyweight fleece jacket instead
- Zpacks food bag  -1.5oz compared to Urasack Minor - 5oz
- Removed my 12oz Platypus Gravity Filter for Aquamira tabs

North Face's Guide or Cats Meow 20 degree sleeping bag is a good choice. I prefer Enlightened Equipments Convert though, as the insulation is fully supportive, instead of just on the top and sides. It can be opened up as well, so that sweating doesn't occur during the early night temperatures.

Thermarest Xtherm is a solid choice for reducing weight as well.

BTW I buy 90% of my gear used on Backpackinglight.co m "gear swap". A lot of people use stuff once and then realize backpacking isn't their thing.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 20, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
Screw the scale thing.  Put up your inventory list of ALL you plan to carry, and most of vultures can critique you with what you NEED, and what you should consider a LUXURY item.  Every item in backpacking needs to go through the litmus test of need, or simply taking said item to make the trip easier.  That way you can make the decision if you really want to carry it or not.    But be fore warned, there are many hyper sensitive  nerds out there who internalize the weight they carry when backpacking as if it is a reflection on their inner-self worth in this world we live in.  They will look down their noses at others who don't care about an extra # or two as if they some how are better because others are too stupid and carry heavy.  A 3 oz. difference in weight of a stove makes or breaks their backpacking experience.  I buy lighter stuff, (for more money), but I don't search out the lightest stuff just for the sake of it being the lightest.

Your best weight savings in the desert will ultimately come down to water management.

It really is about suffering.  Does the benefit of the suffering out-weigh the effort.    For me, I experience a geometric proportional increase in enjoyment when compared to the suffering.  And I will continue backpacking as long as that condition persists.
Thanks ElHombre. I had to read that a few times , especially that next to the last sentence, but I think I understand what you're saying.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 20, 2019, 04:15:54 PM
Gotcha. Here is some equipment that I purchased for lowering my own pack weight.

-ULA Circuit- 2.3 lbs compared to my Gregory Baltoro 75 - 4.83lbs
-Yama Gear 1P Cirriform Tarp - 12oz paired with MLD Bug Bivy 2 - 7oz compared to BA Copper Spur UV 2 -50oz
-Removed my 15 oz Nemo Fillo pillow and used my heavyweight fleece jacket instead
- Zpacks food bag  -1.5oz compared to Urasack Minor - 5oz
- Removed my 12oz Platypus Gravity Filter for Aquamira tabs



North Face's Guide or Cats Meow 20 degree sleeping bag is a good choice. I prefer Enlightened Equipments Convert though, as the insulation is fully supportive, instead of just on the top and sides. It can be opened up as well, so that sweating doesn't occur during the early night temperatures.

Thermarest Xtherm is a solid choice for reducing weight as well.

BTW I buy 90% of my gear used on Backpackinglight.co m "gear swap". A lot of people use stuff once and then realize backpacking isn't their thing.

I've come across that website looking at review while researching gear.  I will check that out and share with the forum if I score a good deal.
I'm going to try to come in at 10lbs with my "big 4' items.  May go the tarp route for a shelter. Thanks for sharing the gear info.

Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: elhombre on August 21, 2019, 08:28:12 AM

Thanks ElHombre. I had to read that a few times , especially that next to the last sentence, but I think I understand what you're saying.

Sorry, sometimes after work the mind doesn't work well, and I  probably shouldn't be posting much when I haven't had any sleep.  "Water management" is simply not carrying too much water, and using the sources along the way.  Many first time hikers out there carry too much extra food and water.  It grinds them down very quickly.  It's been a dry year in Big Bend so far.  With you going in October, you will most likely be the one of the first ones out there if you are heading out into the Quemadas.  It is still going to be hot.  There are only a few springs I would trust my life on, but even knowing that, I always carry some water in reserve just in case someone in my group gets hurt, and we must separate.  You going solo, or do you have a hiking partner?  Depending on your answer, your packing list should/can change significantly.

You mentioned #6s of food on your 3 day hikes.  I'm going to assume you mean 2 nights on the ground.  With that, you can eat a really filling  breakfast the first day before hitting the trail.  Take bagels and peanut butter for lunch all three days (Big calories and easy).  If you can stand it 2 nights in a row, eat 2 tortillas with pepperoni and string cheese for dinner both nights (no refrigeration needed).  Throw in 3 power bars for snacks and BoBo's for breakfast, and you have all your meals, and no need for a stove or fuel.  Everyone is different, but most everyone eats less on the trail.  What we discovered is that as long as we stop and eat a little something every 1.5 hours or so, the body stays happy.  We now have the habit on only eating half a Cliff bar at a rest stop, and carry dried fruit for a quick bite during other rest stops.  I carry enough fat on my ass that I can make it for a few days not eating much. 

The only extra food I bring is an extra Cliff bar, and most of the time when I get off the trail, it is the only thing in my food bag.

DeserTrek is spot on with used stuff!  Especially for someone just starting out. 

Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: GaryF on August 21, 2019, 09:30:15 PM
I prefer Enlightened Equipments Convert though, as the insulation is fully supportive, instead of just on the top and sides. It can be opened up as well, so that sweating doesn't occur during the early night temperatures

I traded in a 20 degree Revelation for a 20 degree Convert.  For anything over 30 degrees Iím good with a quilt, but when in starts getting down into the mid 20s and lower, I decided I needed a better seal, at least as an option.  When you adjust for width (the Convert is wider in each given size than the Revelation), the weight penalty for the zipper is only 2.5 oz. Plus you could leave the straps at home.  I donít really expect to use the zipper most nights, but itís nice to have it there as an option.

For years I carried sleeping bags that I rarely zipped up, and I was pretty confident moving to quilts, but my experience out in the real world in colder conditions made me backtrack a little bit on that choice.  I still have a 40 degree Revelation, and itís fine for warmer conditions down into the upper 30s,

Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: mbender on August 22, 2019, 06:48:35 PM
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR6LBE7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just hook it into the hanging loop on the top of your pack...
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 22, 2019, 08:46:42 PM
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR6LBE7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just hook it into the hanging loop on the top of your pack...
Hey I like that and only $8
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on August 25, 2019, 10:08:48 AM
Gotcha. Here is some equipment that I purchased for lowering my own pack weight.

-ULA Circuit- 2.3 lbs compared to my Gregory Baltoro 75 - 4.83lbs
-Yama Gear 1P Cirriform Tarp - 12oz paired with MLD Bug Bivy 2 - 7oz compared to BA Copper Spur UV 2 -50oz
-Removed my 15 oz Nemo Fillo pillow and used my heavyweight fleece jacket instead
- Zpacks food bag  -1.5oz compared to Urasack Minor - 5oz
- Removed my 12oz Platypus Gravity Filter for Aquamira tabs

North Face's Guide or Cats Meow 20 degree sleeping bag is a good choice. I prefer Enlightened Equipments Convert though, as the insulation is fully supportive, instead of just on the top and sides. It can be opened up as well, so that sweating doesn't occur during the early night temperatures.

Thermarest Xtherm is a solid choice for reducing weight as well.

BTW I buy 90% of my gear used on Backpackinglight.co m "gear swap". A lot of people use stuff once and then realize backpacking isn't their thing.

I've decided to go with a tarp instead of tent. Sanctuary Siltarp 20 0z with guylines and stakes. Not sure if I'll get a bivy or not. I have mosquito netting material at home leftover from on old patio canopy from which I might fashion my own.
I'm taking a 30 pack of the katadyn water purifer tabs. I do have a purifier but it's a Katadyn Hiker pro-11 oz, I may leave it in the car or purchase a lighter one. I like to have redundancy in case I forget to pack something.
Haven't decided yet on pillow vs clothes in a bag.  It's the suffering vs pleasure paradigm that ElHombre mentioned. On my canoe trips I take my 2 favorite pillows from home!
Heres my base so far:
Backpack: 2lb 10 oz Osprey exos
Shelter: Tarp stakes guyline 20 0z
Sleeping Pad: Thermarest Ridgerest 14oz
Sleeping Bag: TBD
I've found a couple of the northface meow sleeping bags on backpackinglite gearswap fro $45-$50 but they were gone in a flash. They were the womens model but what the heck. I won't tell anyone.
 I got the ridge rest and a msr pocket rocket 2 on the labor day sale at rei.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: Lissa on August 25, 2019, 02:12:13 PM
If you have a buff, it makes a terrific pillow case around a stuff sack of clothes. Personally I find that preferable to a blowup pillow, and itís a 0 oz pillow since I always have the buff in my gear anyway.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: DeserTrek on August 26, 2019, 02:58:50 PM
Looks like your on the right track. Once you lighten your load you start to wonder how you ever hauled that much weight to begin with. I added just 3 lbs of pack weight on a recent hike and was amazed how much more difficult the hike was.

Depending on the temperature, a lightweight Nemo Fillo pillow might make more sense. My NF Campshire Fleece is wayy more comfortable than any pillow out there.  It weighs 18 ounces though, compared to my 10 ounce Nemo Fillo. I'm too cheap for replacing an insulated jacket after each season just to keep them warm. If weather didn't require a jacket, then I'd opt for a pillow. For a pillow, do yourself a favor and get one that incorporates a foam layer.

Regarding the women's Cat Meow, I would avoid that at all cost. The women version is significantly bulkier than the mens, as women tend to run 10 degree colder than men. It has a wider section around the hip area as well.  It's way too bulky for your Exos backpack.

I think you may have trouble sleeping on the Ridgerest pad out in BIBE, but then again I don't know your sleeping tolerance. I did it in Utah for about 2 months straight, but I was sleeping on sand not compacted soil. I'd give it a test run on the floors in your home, before you head out into the backcountry.

Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on September 05, 2019, 12:46:28 PM
It's all coming together.
Here's what I got so far. Suggestions always welcome. I have applied some of the advice I have received from you all's comments in this thread.
Backpack Osprey exos 2lb 11 0z
Sleeping bag  Marmot Trestles 2lb 11 oz
Sleeping pads - Klymit static v 19oz, under it to avoid punctures is the ridgrest 14oz  Total 2lb 1oz
Shelter is a Paria Sanctuary SilTarp with stakes and guylines 1lb 5oz
Total 8lb 12oz, I'll add some more higher quality stakes  that should bring that base weight up to 9lb

Clothes in backpack:
Base layer shirt - 8oz  Base layer pants 8oz -     2 pair wool socks and 1 pair sock liners total 9oz  -   Wool shirt 11oz  -  Jacket 13 oz  -  Rain Jacket (sterns walmart type) 15oz  -  Rain pants (sterns walmart type) 11oz  -  Wool cap 4oz  -  gloves 4oz
Total for clothes - 5lb 3oz  YIKES!  :icon_eek:

Kitchen - Coffee cup 7oz  -  6 paper filters  - half an ounce  -  Coffeemaker  -  5oz  -  Coffee  - tbd  -  Stove MSR pocket rocket 4oz  -  fuel canister 7.5oz  -  lighter 1oz  -  spork tbd  - pot to boil in 8oz 
Total for kitchen so far 2lb 1oz.  Could lose the coffee maker and filter and go with instant packets. get a lighter cup and pot

Water Purification - Katadyn Hiker Pro - 13 oz  YIKES  :icon_eek:  Micropur purification tablets TBD

Hygiene and first aid - Microfibre rag 1oz  -  Toilet paper 1 and a half oz  -  Wipes -  1oz  -  toothbrush, paste, and hand sanitizer all together 4 oz  First Aid kit 9oz
Total - 1 lb 1 oz.  (still need leukotape and to add in weight of my rx pills (6 tablets)

Other - Maps - 4oz (Natgeo trails map, Emory peak 7.5 quad) -  Compass 1oz  -  solar blanket 3oz  -  headlamp 3oz  -  flashlight 2oz  -  mirror 1 and a half ounce  -  gear repair kit - 1 and a half ounce  -  sunblock 3 and a half ounces  -  Off! 4oz  - reading glasses 1oz  -  matches 1oz  -  extra batteries 2oz  -stake hammer 7oz
Total 1lb 18 oz

Water and food total 13 lb.

Total weight - 33lb 3oz  Still need to buy leukotape, micropur tablets, get a length of duct tape, possibly a net shelter to go under my tarp, electrolytes to add to water,
I'm carrying my knife in my pocket and a leatherman in a belt sheath

My plan is a 4 day 3 night modified OML CCW starting at Homer Wilson - Dodson-Juniper Creek- Rim- Blue Creek back to Homer Wilson.  October 27-30 God willing.
Once that's done, I'm meeting my brother in the basin and going back up into the Chisos for 2 more nights.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: catz on September 05, 2019, 01:03:15 PM

You won't need rain pants period.  You don't need both a jacket and a rain jacket.  Probably neither.  You almost surely won't need a water filter.

You don't need a quad map.  You don't need both a head lamp and a flashlight.  You won't need a solar blanket.  I agree on going with instant coffee packets.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: elhombre on September 05, 2019, 02:39:17 PM
Looking Good!

I would get a Titanium cup with a lid for ALL cooking and hot drink needs.
https://www.amazon.com/TOAKS-LIGHT-Titanium-Ultralight-Version/dp/B00CYA26BU/ref=pd_cp_468_4?pd_rd_w=uIKrp&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=K42FXPD1AT356PE1FXYG&pd_rd_r=4ec21bb6-ab13-49bf-9612-200e0fc56d6d&pd_rd_wg=9y2b5&pd_rd_i=B00CYA26BU&psc=1&refRID=K42FXPD1AT356PE1FXYG

I too would only bring rain pants if the weather forecast says it may rain.  One headlamp is good with no extra batteries if you start with new ones.  Just be sure the headlamp has the locking feature, and you know how to use it so that it doesn't accidently get left on.  Either way, most headlamps can stay on for 60+ hours on new batteries.

Base layer shirt and wool shirt are too much.  Wool shirt would be my only choice.  If it gets cold, you can put on your wool shirt, hiking shirt, jacket AND your rain coat.  4 Layers!    Base layer pants may be too much.  Only bring them if you know it will be very cold.  You most likely won't stay up long enough at night to need them.  2nd pair of socks can act as your gloves if you need any.

Water filter AND tablets are a good choice just in case the filter craps out on you.  Emory quad is nice becaue it really helps a person figure out where they are on the Dodson trail.  Also, if you climb a hill to watch the sunset, you can pick out features labeled on the map. 

There are plenty of "stake hammers" laying around on the ground in the form of rocks.  Tooth paste is a luxury, but I always bring a brush. 

Does the pocket rocket come with a Pizzo lighter?  If so, just get a small backup lighter and leave the matches at home.  My small lighter fits inside the MSR plastic container with the pizzo and stove.

You didn't mention anything for trash, used TP, used baby wipers, or shovel for a poop hole??  Also, have you looked at a neck warmer before?  Doesn't weigh much.  It's good to keep you much warmer in the wind, and you can pull it over your eyes in the morning to get a little extra sleep.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Zan-Headgear-Microfleece-Neck-Warmer-Black-OSFM/442656531

What's your water plan?  How much are you going to carry and where will you resupply?
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: DeserTrek on September 05, 2019, 03:00:22 PM
+1 on Catz list. I, personally, would include dropping the Mirror, Compass, Sunblock (assuming you have a wide brim hat and long sleeve 150wt wool shirt), OFF (or just spray your clothes down with permethrin), Stake hammer, extra batteries, Knife (depending on size)

For a rain jacket I'd use the link below. You will not need rain pants, unless you are wearing cotton pants while hiking  :eusa_hand:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007X5XDU4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


BTW, I plan on doing the OML a day or two before you. Let me know when it gets closer if you need me to cache you some water at Juniper.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on September 05, 2019, 03:52:02 PM

You won't need rain pants period.  You don't need both a jacket and a rain jacket.  Probably neither.  You almost surely won't need a water filter.

You don't need a quad map.  You don't need both a head lamp and a flashlight.  You won't need a solar blanket.  I agree on going with instant coffee packets.
Thanks Catz!
Do you have any OML trip reports I can go check out? I may have read some already, I've been reading everyone's reports in the OML section, think I'm to page 11.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on September 05, 2019, 04:05:00 PM
Thanks ElHombre.
If the forecast looks moderate when I'm fixing to leave the car at the trailhead, I'll ditch some of the extra clothes and rain gear. I'm taking a large ziplock to put the toilet paper/trash in. I'm hoping to find one that is some shade of color and not clear so I can easily distinguish it from my other baggied items. For a trowel i was planning on using the heel of my boot. Water plan: Leave the trailhead with 4 liters, reup at Fresno, Juniper springs, and boot spring. I hope to take up DeserTrek on his offer to cache some at the Juniper trailhead.  That stretch between Fresno and Upper Juniper may be a little too far without resupply. I will definitley be taking your gear suggestions under consideration.

Looking Good!

I would get a Titanium cup with a lid for ALL cooking and hot drink needs.
https://www.amazon.com/TOAKS-LIGHT-Titanium-Ultralight-Version/dp/B00CYA26BU/ref=pd_cp_468_4?pd_rd_w=uIKrp&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=K42FXPD1AT356PE1FXYG&pd_rd_r=4ec21bb6-ab13-49bf-9612-200e0fc56d6d&pd_rd_wg=9y2b5&pd_rd_i=B00CYA26BU&psc=1&refRID=K42FXPD1AT356PE1FXYG

I too would only bring rain pants if the weather forecast says it may rain.  One headlamp is good with no extra batteries if you start with new ones.  Just be sure the headlamp has the locking feature, and you know how to use it so that it doesn't accidently get left on.  Either way, most headlamps can stay on for 60+ hours on new batteries.

Base layer shirt and wool shirt are too much.  Wool shirt would be my only choice.  If it gets cold, you can put on your wool shirt, hiking shirt, jacket AND your rain coat.  4 Layers!    Base layer pants may be too much.  Only bring them if you know it will be very cold.  You most likely won't stay up long enough at night to need them.  2nd pair of socks can act as your gloves if you need any.

Water filter AND tablets are a good choice just in case the filter craps out on you.  Emory quad is nice becaue it really helps a person figure out where they are on the Dodson trail.  Also, if you climb a hill to watch the sunset, you can pick out features labeled on the map. 

There are plenty of "stake hammers" laying around on the ground in the form of rocks.  Tooth paste is a luxury, but I always bring a brush. 

Does the pocket rocket come with a Pizzo lighter?  If so, just get a small backup lighter and leave the matches at home.  My small lighter fits inside the MSR plastic container with the pizzo and stove.

You didn't mention anything for trash, used TP, used baby wipers, or shovel for a poop hole??  Also, have you looked at a neck warmer before?  Doesn't weigh much.  It's good to keep you much warmer in the wind, and you can pull it over your eyes in the morning to get a little extra sleep.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Zan-Headgear-Microfleece-Neck-Warmer-Black-OSFM/442656531

What's your water plan?  How much are you going to carry and where will you resupply?
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on September 05, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
No cotton for me. :eusa_snooty: Thanks for the link and the advice. And especially for the offer to cache water at the Juniper trailhead. If everything goes according to plan I will be in touch.My goal is to be at no more than 30 lb and I think I can make it using  the suggestions I'm getting here.
+1 on Catz list. I, personally, would include dropping the Mirror, Compass, Sunblock (assuming you have a wide brim hat and long sleeve 150wt wool shirt), OFF (or just spray your clothes down with permethrin), Stake hammer, extra batteries, Knife (depending on size)

For a rain jacket I'd use the link below. You will not need rain pants, unless you are wearing cotton pants while hiking  :eusa_hand:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007X5XDU4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


BTW, I plan on doing the OML a day or two before you. Let me know when it gets closer if you need me to cache you some water at Juniper.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: Lissa on September 05, 2019, 10:00:40 PM
Ridgerest+klymit seems like a lot of weight, and I doubt you need the extra warmth. Might consider swapping that for something like a tyvek  ground cloth.  Agree the rain gear seems heavy / overkill for what you need.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on September 06, 2019, 03:23:23 PM
I'm packing and planning with worst case scenarios in mind and thats probably why I'm overpacking.
Rain gear: Say It's  about 4pm on the Dodson and a heavy rain comes in and I don't have a rain jacket. I get my tarp set up in a bad weather pitch ok to get out of the rain. A front is moving in and temps will be in the 4o's overnite.  I change into my dry wool shirt and bottom base layer and dry socks. So now I have shelter and dry clothes, so far so good. I'll have to change back into my wet pants tomorrow, but they're polyester and will hopefully dry over nite, so I won't have to hike out in cold morning weather with wet pants or in my base layer undies. If it's still raining and cold the next morning, with no rain shell, I'm stuck in my shelter. With a rain shell, I can break camp and keep hiking. I don't mind at all being wet, just not wet and cold. I know the chances of rain are slim and extended rain slimmer, but rain seems to follow me around on my camping trips, whether it's forecast or not. I may get one of those S1.98  clear plastic ponchos just to get me through the trip. Throwing out the rain gear and using a pair of socks for gloves saves me 2lbs! Thanks
Stake hammer: Yeah, that's gotta go. Only thing is,  anytime I'm involved in a combination of me exerting force and a rock, it usually ends up bad for me. I can only hope there are a lot of hammer shaped rocks laying around.
Sleeping pads: So originally I was going to just go with a ridgerest, but knowing myself, I would be really uncomfortable. But I didn't want an inflatable, because all I gotta do is look at one and it springs a leak. But I came across a good deal on a Klymit inflatable, already had the ridge rest, so decided to use the ridgerest under the Klymit to help keep it from getting punctured. Not sure if a Tyvek would work for that purpose not having used it before.  I'm going to get some tyvek anyway, if I don't use it on this trip, I'll use it in the future.
Water filter: If I can lose enough pounds elsewhere I'll keep the katadyn. If not, I'll have to ditch it and shell out for a sawyer mini squeeze. Over half a lb. lighter.  Tablets only are fine but I like redundancy and might not have the option to wait four hours. Thank you DeserTrek for the cache offer, I was eventually going to ask for help on that or hitch a ride out there to leave some.
Kitchen: Instant starbucks or Alpine packets. One pot for boiling and drinking instead of having a pot and a cup. Looking at used titanium pots on backpackinglite gear swap. Can lose about a lb. there. Won't hurt me too much to drink instant for a few days :eusa_boohoo:
Miscellaneous: lose the lighter, extra batteries, Having the headlamp with new batteries and a cell phone in my pants pocket will do for lighting. Will keep the map and compass because I'm a map and compass nerd and that's one of the things I'm looking forward to in this particular setting. If I'm still over, my pillow will be clothes wrapped up in a jacket or shirt (if I'm not using them in the freezing rainstorm)
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: elhombre on September 06, 2019, 05:11:00 PM
I'm taking a large ziplock to put the toilet paper/trash in. I'm hoping to find one that is some shade of color and not clear so I can easily distinguish it from my other baggied items. For a trowel i was planning on using the heel of my boot. Water plan: Leave the trailhead with 4 liters, reup at Fresno, Juniper springs, and boot spring.

Use a 20oz Gaterade bottle for your trash.  You can use a ram rod (hiking stick) and stuff that thing full up.  Then screw the cap back on, and it doesn't leak.  The rules for pooping in the desert are not rules like the 45 MPH speed limit in the park.  They are such because people don't want their water sources contaminated, nor want to have the trail smell like your walking on a street in downtown Austin.   You need to dig a hole at least 6 inches deep to crap in.  The hole needs to be at least 100 feet from the trail. And it MUST be 300 feet ( a Football Field) away from a water source.   Use a 2 bag system for your TP.  One bag holds the poopy paper, and the other bag holds the clean TP, along with the used poopy paper bag inside.  Don't use cheap HEB freezer bags.  Get the Ziplock ones.  Your boot heel isn't going to make a dent in the ground out there.  On your hike, I guarantee you will see, and most likely smell some left over poo and TP that some snowflake candy ass didn't have the balls to take care of properly.  Please do the right thing.  It's the small price of admission for hiking in the back country away from the front country sheeple.

The walk to Fresno from Homer will take around 4+ hours with rest stops.  If you tank up at car before you leave, 4liters would be too much in my opinion.  2+ liters and a brand new 20 oz Gaterade should get you to Fresno without much problem.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: roadtrip on September 06, 2019, 07:02:12 PM
Duly noted! Thanks for the feedback. Saw t.p. all up and down the last stretch of Brazos I floated earlier this spring. Disgusting. Plenty of loose sand to dig there and leaves and sand to fill back up. Not so much Big Bend I reckon. I will bring the trowel. Never understood how some of the same people who enjoy the outdoors have no problem trashing it out. Rest assured I will do the right thing.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: DeserTrek on September 09, 2019, 11:33:34 AM
In regards to rain gear, I always carry a rain jacket just not rain pants.  I have no issues rocking my base layers as pants. Been there done that. That said, I recommend that you get lighter pants that don't absorb and hold water. I switched from Prana Zion pants to RailRaiders Eco Mesh and the drying time was pretty significant. Also, The side zips allow more air flow for quicker drying as well.

https://www.railriders.com/men-eco-mesh-pant-with-insect-shield-p-837.html

I was skeptical of inflatable sleeping pads as well, but I have to say all three of my Thermarest pads have been bombproof. I even cut two of them to reduce weight and resealed with an iron. Leaks are not really a concern as long as you use appropriate care. That said, I use a thin GG foam pad underneath all my pads, as well as Tyvek. Also, stay away from Polycryo its crap.

https://www.gossamergear.com/collections/sleeping-pads/products/thinlight-foam-pad

Do yourself a favor and buy some biodegradable toilet paper or just use natural resources.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFTDPE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: Lissa on September 09, 2019, 08:55:18 PM
So have in fact gotten caught in that cold, wet rain in the bend. Like you it seems to follow me around :) Am Not opposed to rain layers if they are I tended as part of your warmth layering, you just seemed to have a lot.  And throw a couple newspaper bags in your pack - they can cover your hands and make them waterproof in a cold rain, or over dry socks in camp if you have wet shoes. (I realize these maybe arenít highly likely in the Bend, but itís effective and very light weight, so I generally tuck them down into a pocket.)

For lightweight trowel the deuce of spaces is good.  The aluminum is thin and can kind of cut into your hand, so I use it as the place to wrap / store my spare duct tape.
Title: Re: Weighing gear
Post by: dprather on September 09, 2019, 10:53:44 PM
Screw the scale thing.  Put up your inventory list of ALL you plan to carry, and most of vultures can critique you with what you NEED, and what you should consider a LUXURY item.  Every item in backpacking needs to go through the litmus test of need, or simply taking said item to make the trip easier.  That way you can make the decision if you really want to carry it or not.    But be fore warned, there are many hyper sensitive  nerds out there who internalize the weight they carry when backpacking as if it is a reflection on their inner-self worth in this world we live in.  They will look down their noses at others who don't care about an extra # or two as if they some how are better because others are too stupid and carry heavy.  A 3 oz. difference in weight of a stove makes or breaks their backpacking experience.  I buy lighter stuff, (for more money), but I don't search out the lightest stuff just for the sake of it being the lightest.

Your best weight savings in the desert will ultimately come down to water management.

It really is about suffering.  Does the benefit of the suffering out-weigh the effort.    For me, I experience a geometric proportional increase in enjoyment when compared to the suffering.  And I will continue backpacking as long as that condition persists.

This is my approach.  I only take what I have to take and then I just deal with it.  "What I have to take" gets less and less after every trip.