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Solitario in Winter

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Offline Mrscookie

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2007, 05:56:20 AM »
My wife and I have done over 2 years of volunteer work at Big Bend Ranch State Park.  We have had, even very experinced hikers get lost out there and get in trouble.  Where the guides take you is some of the wildest, most remote parts of the park and they know the country better than most of the park employees.  The park is there reason for being there and they will be able to show you it the way no one else can and you are paying for there knowledge and making sure you don't kill yourself out there. They know what they are doing and do it well, and are always fair in their charges.

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Offline Ay Chihuahua!

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2007, 09:44:35 AM »
My wife and I have done over 2 years of volunteer work at Big Bend Ranch State Park.  We have had, even very experinced hikers get lost out there and get in trouble.  Where the guides take you is some of the wildest, most remote parts of the park and they know the country better than most of the park employees.  The park is there reason for being there and they will be able to show you it the way no one else can and you are paying for there knowledge and making sure you don't kill yourself out there. They know what they are doing and do it well, and are always fair in their charges.
You choose this topic for your first post?  Hmm... :eusa_think: Do you work for or own a guide service?  Or do you just shill for them?

$600 is a ridiculous waste of money for anyone who knows how to read a map and ask a ranger a few questions.

On the other hand, I know that some folks have more money than time, and I can understand that.

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Offline xseption

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2007, 09:51:05 AM »

$600 is a ridiculous waste of money for anyone who knows how to read a map and ask a ranger a few questions.

On the other hand, I know that some folks have more money than time, and I can understand that.


That might be the point. $600 is a lot for the likes of me and you, yet $600 might be a drop in the bucket for others. If it was expensive, I might be willing to pay for a guide who knows what they are a bout and can help me achieve my objectives. In fact, I might be able to learn enough such that a guide would be superfluous.

~ edd
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Offline randell

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2007, 09:56:46 AM »
My wife and I have done over 2 years of volunteer work at Big Bend Ranch State Park.  We have had, even very experinced hikers get lost out there and get in trouble.  Where the guides take you is some of the wildest, most remote parts of the park and they know the country better than most of the park employees.  The park is there reason for being there and they will be able to show you it the way no one else can and you are paying for there knowledge and making sure you don't kill yourself out there. They know what they are doing and do it well, and are always fair in their charges.
You choose this topic for your first post?  Hmm... :eusa_think: Do you work for or own a guide service?  Or do you just shill for them?

$600 is a ridiculous waste of money for anyone who knows how to read a map and ask a ranger a few questions.

On the other hand, I know that some folks have more money than time, and I can understand that.

I just paid the dishwasher repairman $85 to push two buttons three times and fix my washer.  He said it was 5 cents to push the buttons and $84.95 for knowing which buttons to push. 
There's nothing like a good quest to get you intimate with a place. - Tom Clynes

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Offline RichardM

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2007, 10:11:11 AM »
My wife and I have done over 2 years of volunteer work at Big Bend Ranch State Park.  We have had, even very experinced hikers get lost out there and get in trouble.  Where the guides take you is some of the wildest, most remote parts of the park and they know the country better than most of the park employees.  The park is there reason for being there and they will be able to show you it the way no one else can and you are paying for there knowledge and making sure you don't kill yourself out there. They know what they are doing and do it well, and are always fair in their charges.
You choose this topic for your first post?  Hmm... :eusa_think: Do you work for or own a guide service?  Or do you just shill for them?

$600 is a ridiculous waste of money for anyone who knows how to read a map and ask a ranger a few questions.

On the other hand, I know that some folks have more money than time, and I can understand that.
I just paid the dishwasher repairman $85 to push two buttons three times and fix my washer.  He said it was 5 cents to push the buttons and $84.95 for knowing which buttons to push. 
My Mom had a similar experience over Thanksgiving with her furnace and the circuit breaker.  Remember to cycle the breaker in question rather than just making sure it's "on", because as they get older the spring often isn't strong enough to pop them all the way open.  Both my Mom and older brother had checked it before calling out the service dude.  :icon_redface:

Anyway, welcome to the board Mrscookie.  Don't let the negative responses keep you away.  As you can guess, public access to public lands is kind of a hot button for some of us here.

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Offline Ay Chihuahua!

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2007, 10:18:58 AM »
$85 to fix an appliance sounds reasonable. 

$600 per person with 4 person minimum?  Not so reasonable.

Mrscookie,  I may be a little grouchy this morning.  Sorry if I've cast false accusations.


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Offline okiehiker

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2007, 10:58:13 AM »
$600/person...

Private expeditions are expensive to put together. 

I will admit, I can do a trip a LOT cheaper.  In two weeks I will be taking a group of 15 people from Oklahoma to Balmorhea SP, to work in an orphanage in Ojinaga, Chi., Mexico for three and a half days, over to BIBE to hike, climb, camp and hang out at the hot springs, and then back to Oklahoma. 

The total cost per person is $100.  This is a more expensive undertaking than the Solitario hike to put together.  There is nearly 2,000 miles of travel and the cost of supplies for the work project and it is seven days not four. 

BUT leading this trip is not my profession at the present time (it has been in the past...) AND my salary simply is being paid by my employer who supports me leading a mission trip. 

So... if Bonnie, our volunteer cook were being paid $100/day for her time.  And I as the leader were being paid $200/day for my time (less than I make in my professional life...)  And I charged people for something more than just the cost of gas for travel. And I fed people something more than just the simplest, cheapest food we can come up with as it is a mission trip...  And I charged for overhead, and the fact that I could only be in the field half the time because I have to put effort into recruiting and organizing these trips... in other words, if this were a business... what would I charge for 13 paying participants??

Travel--$2,000, Staff--$2,500, Food and Supplies  $1,500, Insurance--$500, Overhead--$1,000
$7,500   About $575/person...

Now... if I didn't have to pay for travel... and it were only 4 days... it would be cheaper...

BUT... if I only had four customers... it would be more expensive...

If this were my business I could only significantly beat their price if I were single or independently wealthy. 
Funny... I have a story about that...

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Offline xseption

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2007, 11:22:43 AM »
$600/person...

Private expeditions are expensive to put together. 

I will admit, I can do a trip a LOT cheaper.  In two weeks I will be taking a group of 15 people from Oklahoma to Balmorhea SP, to work in an orphanage in Ojinaga, Chi., Mexico for three and a half days, over to BIBE to hike, climb, camp and hang out at the hot springs, and then back to Oklahoma. 

The total cost per person is $100.  This is a more expensive undertaking than the Solitario hike to put together.  There is nearly 2,000 miles of travel and the cost of supplies for the work project and it is seven days not four. 

BUT leading this trip is not my profession at the present time (it has been in the past...) AND my salary simply is being paid by my employer who supports me leading a mission trip. 

So... if Bonnie, our volunteer cook were being paid $100/day for her time.  And I as the leader were being paid $200/day for my time (less than I make in my professional life...)  And I charged people for something more than just the cost of gas for travel. And I fed people something more than just the simplest, cheapest food we can come up with as it is a mission trip...  And I charged for overhead, and the fact that I could only be in the field half the time because I have to put effort into recruiting and organizing these trips... in other words, if this were a business... what would I charge for 13 paying participants??

Travel--$2,000, Staff--$2,500, Food and Supplies  $1,500, Insurance--$500, Overhead--$1,000
$7,500   About $575/person...

Now... if I didn't have to pay for travel... and it were only 4 days... it would be cheaper...

BUT... if I only had four customers... it would be more expensive...

If this were my business I could only significantly beat their price if I were single or independently wealthy. 

Thanks for the analysis! That is an eye-opener ...

~ edd
Be the kind of person that you will want to meet!

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Offline Ay Chihuahua!

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2007, 11:52:22 AM »
Quote
Travel--$2,000, Staff--$2,500, Food and Supplies  $1,500, Insurance--$500, Overhead--$1,000
$7,500   About $575/person...
My guess is this group is not arranging travel.  I don't see why extra staffing needs would be required.  Its just a guide and 4 customers, right?  There is no way that food and supplies would run $2500 for 4 people, unless they're eating kobe and drinking Dom.  Insurance for your business is not going to run you $500 per trip.  What overhead?

Don't want to be a doubter, but I guess I am.


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SHANEA

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2007, 12:43:07 PM »
Ah, let's not forget that TPWD needs their cut out of this.

I'm willing to "bet" that there is a fee associated with being a expedition leader out there and there are also insurance requirements, certification requirements (first aid, etc.), etc. etc. etc.

I looked into becoming an 'expedition leader" out there several years ago.  I was trying to "short cut" the process so that I could gain admission into the inner reaches of the park.  After finding out the requirements, training required, TPWD mandated classes, etc. - no thanks.

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Offline Ay Chihuahua!

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2007, 01:00:58 PM »
Shane, you're probably right on this, but still....  Those dollar figures seem high to me.

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Offline 01ACRViper

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2007, 01:17:08 PM »
well, it's like the people that pay hundreds of dollars to be driven around the national park in the back of a jeep, which anybody can do on their own. they feel like paying to be guided and taken care of, and if you have the money, you're going to go for it.

they may not have been able to do something like this w/out a guide, and this is their only opportunity.

there is no way i'd ever pay for something like this, but i can see why other people might. as long as their trip doesn't get in the way of mine, more power to you  :beer_chug:

the notable exception where a guide is OK is Everest/K2  :icon_redface:

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SHANEA

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2007, 01:17:21 PM »
Shane, you're probably right on this, but still....  Those dollar figures seem high to me.

Plus, let's face it, the tour group running it has to make a normal profit too.  Especially since the area that they reside in has a steep cost of living associated with it.  The view might be worth $35,000 a year, but, the view doesn't pay the bills.

Now, would I pay that for the trip?  Not in my current financial health, but I did pay $90 some odd dollars to go see the waterfall at BBRSP - to ride in a busted up Suburban.  That was $90 each and didn't include meals or anything.  Just the pleasure of the rangers company. 

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Offline badknees

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2007, 01:35:51 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most posters on the board seem to be do it your-selfers. Can't see any BIBECahat renegades paying $600. Part of the fun is in the discovery.



 :vomit: (I wanted to try this one)

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Offline Ay Chihuahua!

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Re: Solitario in Winter
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2007, 01:43:48 PM »
You are all just shills for the backpacking guide industry!!  :willynilly:
I should have know better!  :eusa_doh:

Just kidding.  I've probably lost this argument, so I will just slink away now.  But rest assured, I will be back to argue some other pointless issue.  You have been warned.

 


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