Big Bend Chat

Random Bits from the Outside World => General Outdoor Stuff & Camping Equipment => Topic started by: SA Bill on March 10, 2009, 10:52:55 PM

Title: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: SA Bill on March 10, 2009, 10:52:55 PM
To go along with the gas powered blender, we now have a 12V microwave!!
http://tinyurl.com/c2gxos (http://tinyurl.com/c2gxos)
  Bill
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 10, 2009, 11:05:50 PM
Any electrical experts out there who can tell me why you couldn't just use a regular microwave plugged into an inverter?
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 10, 2009, 11:22:23 PM
I don't know how big an inverter is required for a "regular" microwave but that unit would be GREAT for nuking potatoes while primitive camping, especially at altitude when the alternative is boiling!  I have a 400 watt, 800 watt peak load, inverter installed under the rear jump seat in the ol' F150.  I ran 8 gauge wire from the engine compartment to provide power to it (and the outboard amps in the sound system.)  Definitely more than a cigarette lighter inverter would be required. We used the heck out of the inverter the last trip to Big Bend to recharge multiple laptop and camera batteries all at the same time, but I ran the truck engine while in use in order to be sure the truck battery didn't run down.

Cabelas comes through again!  If only I could figure out how to keep TV dinners frozen long enough to take real advantage of . . .

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: dkerr24 on March 11, 2009, 12:53:43 AM
Al, sounds like you need a second 12v car battery with an isolator that will keep the main battery from running down in the truck.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Casa Grande on March 11, 2009, 08:15:10 AM
I don't claim to be an electronic expert, but those inverters don't allow for a whole lot of amps.   Using a regular microwave with an inverter will likely blow a fuse.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: uh_clem on March 11, 2009, 09:22:35 AM
 I would guess that would run down a car battery pretty quickly.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 11, 2009, 10:04:52 AM
Al, sounds like you need a second 12v car battery with an isolator that will keep the main battery from running down in the truck.

It would but I don't use it enough to justify the expense.  The amount of gas required to idle the engine for 15 or 20 minutes is probably less than a quart.  We used the inverter to charge up our portable equipment while driving from one site to the other so I only had to idle the truck a total of maybe a hour over the week. So even at $4/gal it would take quite a few hours to justify the time and expense of a second battery and the required setup.  If I truck camped a lot it would be worth it.

If you read the review of the Cabelas microwave, it has a lower wattage than a regular microwave which is probably its main attribute that allows it to run off a car battery.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Casa Grande on March 11, 2009, 11:16:26 AM
anywho.....what the heck?  A microwave?
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 11, 2009, 11:56:06 AM
If you were living off the grid or truck camped a lot it would be neat to have. 

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: homerboy2u on March 11, 2009, 12:04:58 PM
I have always wanted to microwave popcorn inside of my truck,but couldn't...
(http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_518898_imageset_01?$main-Large$)



Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Peach on March 11, 2009, 01:11:33 PM
All I can say is.....



 :icon_rolleyes:

Seriously?  A portable microwave?
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Fred on March 11, 2009, 11:49:31 PM
Cool, I like that, but correct me if I am wrong, I thought running a generator in the park is a no-no....including using you car engine to power it.  I'm too lazy, but I think if you look it up you will find that they specifically prohibit the use of your car engine to generate power.

Some of the nicest things you could have, you cannot, inside the federally controlled part of Texas.  I think your only 3 options are to camp outside the park, use while driving around, or go solar....very expensive and bulky.

Many cars now come with inverters, but if I am correct, to use one while parked is not allowed. 
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 12, 2009, 12:03:04 AM
Quote from: http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/bc-roadsides.htm
No Generators
The use of generators is prohibited at these sites. Enjoy the natural silence of the Chihuahuan Desert
...
(remember, generator use is prohibited in the backcountry)
Gotta stay at RGV or the Basin campground if you want to use a generator:
Quote from: http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/campground_rules.htm
Generator use is permitted in designated areas between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. Idling vehicle engines are considered generators in this regard. No generators are allowed at Cottonwood Campground.
Al, looks like you better start watching your mailbox for a citation letter! :eusa_shifty:
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 12, 2009, 12:05:20 AM
I think the rangers should ticket every car or truck that drives into Big Bend for illegal generator use! 

This exceeds the top range of the silly meter . . . Fred, please.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 12, 2009, 01:08:28 AM
I confess.  I idled my truck, with no other humans present for many miles around other than my friends, to recharge our batteries.  I was weak. 

It does not matter that I idled the truck to ensure we would not be stranded many miles down a remote dirt road and to avoid a potentially required rescue effort by park personnel.  I have sinned and will accept my punishment, as appropriate. I promise next time I will drive needlessly down the park roads to increase park particulate emissions and in order to burn much more gas and to emit much more CO2 as necessary to accomplish the same net energy gain. 

My bad,
Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Fred on March 12, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
I think the rangers should ticket every car or truck that drives into Big Bend for illegal generator use! 

This exceeds the top range of the silly meter . . . Fred, please.

Al

I could not agree with you more on the silly meter, .......the rule that is.  It is not your bad, but a "one size fits all" bad rule that clearly is behind the times and needs changing to fit current technology.  Lets hope rangers use a little common sense in things like these.  As far as I am concerned, you can come into my camp and idle your truck all you want to.  I like fresh popcorn!
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Roy on March 12, 2009, 08:09:18 PM
that unit would be GREAT for nuking potatoes while primitive camping

I think this qualifies as an oxymoron. 
Blenders, ACs, now microwaves??  What's the world coming to?? :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: homerboy2u on March 12, 2009, 08:26:20 PM
I like fresh popcorn!
...smell in the morning?. :icon_redface:

 I...thought,you were trying to Robert Duvall us once again... :eusa_shifty:
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 12, 2009, 08:57:04 PM
that unit would be GREAT for nuking potatoes while primitive camping

I think this qualifies as an oxymoron. 
Blenders, ACs, now microwaves??  What's the world coming to?? :icon_lol:

Don't forget the much revered infra-red heater.

(http://www.bigbendgallery.com/uploads/files/BB_Feb2009_Night_CampS2.jpg)

I promise that if you were camping within sight of this baby on some of the cold and windy nights we have spent in Big Bend you would want one too.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Pedreo233 on March 12, 2009, 10:30:52 PM
I confess.  I idled my truck, with no other humans present for many miles around other than my friends, to recharge our batteries.  I was weak. 

Geez Al, I was there with you and I have a different recollection.  I thought you started the dern truck to make sure the battery was not run down because an absent-minded member of the party left some light on or something one of those cold nights.  We could have been stranded if we left it sitting for several days.  I think you are dreaming.

This may be a shock (I am no lectrical xpert) but a regular household microwave is usually 1000 - 1500 watts, not advisable for an inverter.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: uh_clem on March 13, 2009, 12:36:59 PM
I think the rangers should ticket every car or truck that drives into Big Bend for illegal generator use! 

This exceeds the top range of the silly meter . . . Fred, please.

Al

I could not agree with you more on the silly meter, .......the rule that is.  It is not your bad, but a "one size fits all" bad rule that clearly is behind the times and needs changing to fit current technology.  Lets hope rangers use a little common sense in things like these.  As far as I am concerned, you can come into my camp and idle your truck all you want to.  I like fresh popcorn!

Modern cars and trucks don't have generators, technically.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Roy on March 13, 2009, 02:34:11 PM

I promise that if you were camping within sight of this baby on some of the cold and windy nights we have spent in Big Bend you would want one too.

l

Nope.  I've camped in single digit temperatures, high winds, rain, pretty much everything except  a blizzard. 
You want a backed potato, popcorn, etc.,  stay at the lodge.
"All the comforts of home" should STAY at home.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 13, 2009, 03:01:18 PM
You've got nothing on me, except I HAVE camped in a blizzard with sleet, high winds and sub freezing temperatures that lasted for several days. I have NEVER stayed in the lodge, an RV, much less the basin and have no plans to. If I want to stay in a hotel, I'll go to New York City.  The only time I use a tent or tarp is if dictated by the weather and I go to Big Bend, among other reasons, to camp out under the stars.  If it is within the rules, which every thing I do is, including idling the truck perhaps 20 minutes during the day every couple of days while primitive camping, which is completely legal (Go back and read Richard's posts carefully - primitive camping is NOT one of the campgrounds). 

So at what level of convenience and comfort do you begrudge your fellow campers "sharing" your park as long as it is legal?  What is the cutoff on legal equipment one can have and what is that your cutoff?  I am all for having anything and everything that can make the trip a little more enjoyable and special.  As I have said repeated, one does not want go out into the middle of nowhere to be miserable. 

I am having trouble understanding your problem.   Please explain yourself more, Roy. 

I stand proudly by my last post. 

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 13, 2009, 03:07:16 PM
I think the rangers should ticket every car or truck that drives into Big Bend for illegal generator use! 

This exceeds the top range of the silly meter . . . Fred, please.

Al

I could not agree with you more on the silly meter, .......the rule that is.  It is not your bad, but a "one size fits all" bad rule that clearly is behind the times and needs changing to fit current technology.  Lets hope rangers use a little common sense in things like these.  As far as I am concerned, you can come into my camp and idle your truck all you want to.  I like fresh popcorn!

Modern cars and trucks don't have generators, technically.

The last car I had with a generator was a 60's vintage VW.  Cars have alternators.  But according to the park rules if you are idling your vehicle in a campground then the park treats it the same as a generator.  The same language is not included in the back country rules.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 13, 2009, 03:23:58 PM
If it is within the rules, which every thing I do is, including idling the truck perhaps 20 minutes during the day every couple of days while primitive camping, which is completely legal (Go back and read Richard's posts carefully - primitive camping is NOT one of the campgrounds).
Looks like the park isn't very clear on just when idling a vehicle for the purpose of generating electricity is against the rules. They clearly state that generators are verboten at backcountry (i.e. primitive) sites, but only mention the idling vehicle clause on the campground page. :eusa_think: My experience as a long-time government contractor leads me to infer that they consider idling vehicles to be considered as virtual generators throughout the park, but just didn't do a good job of making that clear. Of course, I could be completely wrong (just ask my wife). My guess is that it's left to the interpretation (and mood) of the ranger. Fire up a loud generator at one of the backcountry road sites and you're liable to at least be told to shut it off, if not given a citation. Unless you just happen to piss off the ranger, you're probably not likely to get hassled over idling a vehicle. Whether or not such an action is against the rules is not made completely clear by what I was able to find on the BIBE website. I figured if it was a common problem, they'd have put it in the Compendium (http://www.nps.gov/bibe/parkmgmt/compendium.htm) by now.

Update after re-checking the Compendium:
Quote
Generator use and the use of idling vehicles to generate power are allowed in designated areas between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. All other use of generators is prohibited.
That would seem to support my guess that they consider idling vehicles for power generation to be prohibited wherever generators are. However, that paragraph is in the "frontcountry camping" section, so you might be able to argue your way out of a citation. Too bad we don't have any rangers here willing to post a definitive answer.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 13, 2009, 03:34:52 PM
My understanding, as a person who has made a living for many years interpreting government rules, is the rule specific to the circumstance applies.  There is a reason vehicles are identified as generators in campgrounds and there is a reason vehicles are NOT identified in the back country rules.  It only makes sense.  Campgrounds - you are surrounded by many people in close proximity.  In the back country you are not.  In areas where the are multiple primitive sites fairly near each other, you might be able to hear a generator but you would not be able to hear an idling vehicle.

From a practical viewpoint, the only time that rule would be enforced is if someone complained.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 13, 2009, 03:43:57 PM
My understanding, as a person who has made a living for many years interpreting government rules, is the rule specific to the circumstance applies.  There is a reason vehicles are identified as generators in campgrounds and there is a reason vehicles are NOT identified in the back country rules.  It only makes sense.  Campgrounds - you are surrounded by many people in close proximity.  In the back country you are not.  In areas where the are multiple primitive sites fairly near each other, you might be able to hear a generator but you would not be able to hear an idling vehicle.
It'd sure be nice if they could be a bit more clear. Maybe they just like having wiggle room.

Quote
From a practical viewpoint, the only time that rule would be enforced is if someone complained.
Agreed. Just make sure Roy is out of earshot. :evil:
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 13, 2009, 03:50:35 PM
The rules are perfectly clear as written and I have no argument with the Roy comment . . . although I think Roy might just be having a bad day.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Fred on March 14, 2009, 12:48:27 AM
There isn't a rule or law that can be written to cover all circumstances.  Most experienced LE have loads of common sense and apply it correctly in the field.  A rare few, mostly newbies, may be lacking in common sense. 

LE....Avoid them when you can, respect them when you cannot, and you will most likely not get hurt.

I loved the picture of the glow of the heater.  Was that real or from an advertisement or something?  The way the glow put out radiating shadows on the ground, the mountain in the back ground and what looked like two stars in the sky.  Looking at it, I could almost feel the crisp air, hear the beckoning hum of the nice warm heater, and feel the friendship of the campers sitting around it.  You do not get that in a Lodge.  Loved it!
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 14, 2009, 01:31:53 AM
That's a shot I took at Fresno early this last February with the exposure corrected using ACDSee 6.0.  Pretty neat for sure. 

Hosted a card game tonight out in my shop (the wives have learned not to let us play in the house) with the infra-red heater as the sole source of heat.  Deluxe. Otherwise we would have been really cold. The cards could have been better, but there is always next time!  The heater performed flawlessly.

Thanks,
Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 18, 2009, 11:35:24 AM
I decided to try out the BIBE email contact (http://www.nps.gov/bibe/contacts.htm) to see if they could clear things up.

Quote
Q: On your backcountry primitive roadside camping page you state that generators are not allowed. On the campground page you state that idling a vehicle to generate power is considered to be the same as using a generator. Does this mean than idling a vehicle for power generation at a primitive backcountry site is also prohibited? The Superintendent's Compendium does not mention generator usage in the backcountry camping section, only in the frontcountry camping section.

A: You are correct in your statement that idling a vehicle is the same as generating power.

As far as the "no generators" in the backcountry, we are actually looking into that.  That regulation used to be in the Superintendent's compendium, and a couple of people are checking on whether the Backcountry Management Plan includes the regulation or not.  Much of Big Bend National Park is under protection as a proposed wilderness area [proposed but not designated as such], which would prohibit generator use, but we are checking on this.

Thank you for noticing this.  I will get back to you as soon as I have a definitive answer.

So, things may change....

Followup note from 8/20/09: The Backcountry Management plan is under review, including the issue of generator usage, but it will probably be a year or so before any possible changes are made. Until then, generators (including idling vehicles to generate power) are not allowed in the backcountry.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 18, 2009, 11:52:13 AM
I decided to try out the BIBE email contact (http://www.nps.gov/bibe/contacts.htm) to see if they could clear things up.

Quote
Q: On your backcountry primitive roadside camping page you state that generators are not allowed. On the campground page you state that idling a vehicle to generate power is considered to be the same as using a generator. Does this mean than idling a vehicle for power generation at a primitive backcountry site is also prohibited? The Superintendent's Compendium does not mention generator usage in the backcountry camping section, only in the frontcountry camping section.

A: You are correct in your statement that idling a vehicle is the same as generating power.

As far as the "no generators" in the backcountry, we are actually looking into that.  That regulation used to be in the Superintendent's compendium, and a couple of people are checking on whether the Backcountry Management Plan includes the regulation or not.  Much of Big Bend National Park is under protection as a proposed wilderness area [proposed but not designated as such], which would prohibit generator use, but we are checking on this.

Thank you for noticing this.  I will get back to you as soon as I have a definitive answer.

So, things may change....

Great.  Then we will have to ban all vehicles in the back country since it is impossible to drive a vehicle into the back country without having idled it for some period of time.  I always warm my vehicle up a few minutes by idling when it's cold.  Makes the engine last longer.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 18, 2009, 12:30:21 PM
And just to prolong the arguments until Presidio shows up to whine about the NPS...
Quote from: http://ci.lexington.ma.us/OCD/Health/Engine%20Idling.htm
Idling Myths:

Myth #1: "The engine should be warmed up for long periods prior to driving."

Reality: Idling is not an effective way to warm up your engine, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is to drive the vehicle. With today's modern engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before starting to drive.

Myth #2: "Idling is good for the engine."

Reality: Excessive idling can actually damage engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and the exhaust system.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 18, 2009, 01:18:11 PM
Don't trust those environmental types.  Their agenda is hardly objective!

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: presidio on March 18, 2009, 06:55:14 PM
I don't claim to be an electronic expert, but those inverters don't allow for a whole lot of amps.   Using a regular microwave with an inverter will likely blow a fuse.

Not those little plug-in inverters, but if you get an adequately sized RV model and have enough battery capacity, you can run a household model.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: presidio on March 18, 2009, 07:29:16 PM
Quote
A: You are correct in your statement that idling a vehicle is the same as generating power.

As far as the "no generators" in the backcountry, we are actually looking into that.  That regulation used to be in the Superintendent's compendium, and a couple of people are checking on whether the Backcountry Management Plan includes the regulation or not.  Much of Big Bend National Park is under protection as a proposed wilderness area [proposed but not designated as such], which would prohibit generator use, but we are checking on this.


This is just pure horse hockey. 'Proposed' wilderness may be managed like wilderness, but there is no way the wilderness regulations apply. Look it up. Better yet, have the NPS look it up, they're the ones that have the problem understanding things. Of course, this doesn't prevent them from including all sorts of idiotic rules in the compendium, as there already is an abundance of examples contained therein, so they put it there to compensate for the fact that the wilderness act doesn't give them the ability to do it via that avenue. And....even if there was an actual wilderness ever designated (don't hold your breath, they've been hanging on this eventuality for decades with no action), any place you could drive a vehicle....along the wilderness boundary or on roads jutting into the wilderness IS NOT wilderness. If it was, you'd not be able to drive there.

As to the comment in another post that enforcement would only happen if someone complained, you will be disabused of that notion when an overzealous ranger takes you to task. While one would hope some discretion and common sense would be applied, don't count on it; those commodities are in awfully short supply in NPS areas. Keep in mind the rule does not include a 'complaint' trigger, just a prohibition.

The pathetic part? Quality generators are so well insulated that you'd be hard pressed to hear one very far away in the backcountry, and the sort of person who is camping out there is not likely to be worried about what someone else is doing in their campsite down the road, but the NPS is VERY concerned; they lie awake at night worrying about what you MIGHT be doing that they haven't yet considered and prohibited.

This is a great example of a rule that might have made some sense in the era of generators that sounded like lawnmowers, or in jammed campgrounds (since you can't camp just anywhere), but which technology has superseded. However, NPS rules, once instituted almost never are revised downward or abolished.

Quote
Great.  Then we will have to ban all vehicles in the back country since it is impossible to drive a vehicle into the back country without having idled it for some period of time.

Yep. I wonder how the NPS will get out there to find the violators? They should lead by example.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Pedreo233 on March 18, 2009, 08:37:01 PM
 I always warm my vehicle up a few minutes by idling when it's cold.  Makes the engine last longer.
[/quote]

But you are not warming up the engine to "generate power" so taken in context, you are fine!  Likewise, idling would not be illegal unless it were to generate power.  I frequently pull off the road to talk on the phone and let the engine idle.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Pedreo233 on March 18, 2009, 08:48:05 PM
I decided to try out the BIBE email contact (http://www.nps.gov/bibe/contacts.htm) to see if they could clear things up.

Quote
Q: On your backcountry primitive roadside camping page you state that generators are not allowed. On the campground page you state that idling a vehicle to generate power is considered to be the same as using a generator. Does this mean than idling a vehicle for power generation at a primitive backcountry site is also prohibited? The Superintendent's Compendium does not mention generator usage in the backcountry camping section, only in the frontcountry camping section.

A: You are correct in your statement that idling a vehicle is the same as generating power.

As far as the "no generators" in the backcountry, we are actually looking into that.  That regulation used to be in the Superintendent's compendium, and a couple of people are checking on whether the Backcountry Management Plan includes the regulation or not.  Much of Big Bend National Park is under protection as a proposed wilderness area [proposed but not designated as such], which would prohibit generator use, but we are checking on this.

Thank you for noticing this.  I will get back to you as soon as I have a definitive answer.

So, things may change....

I expect your request was well intended, but you know that the reflex answer would be to say no.  Now, for certain, they will find a way to prove it or emphasize it.  Good luck.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Pedreo233 on March 18, 2009, 08:56:09 PM
And just to prolong the arguments until Presidio shows up to whine about the NPS...
Quote from: http://ci.lexington.ma.us/OCD/Health/Engine%20Idling.htm
Idling Myths:

Myth #1: "The engine should be warmed up for long periods prior to driving."

Reality: Idling is not an effective way to warm up your engine, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is to drive the vehicle. With today's modern engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before starting to drive.

Myth #2: "Idling is good for the engine."

Reality: Excessive idling can actually damage engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and the exhaust system.

I would suggest to watch the oil pressure guage, let it come to full pressure, then let it sit for a minute to be sure lubrication is well distributed before putting under load.  Running a poorly lubricated engine is not good.  I think that is why they say wait 30 secs.  What is harder on an engine is idling at temperature in the heat like stuck on the freeway in summer. 
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 18, 2009, 09:08:58 PM
I decided to try out the BIBE email contact (http://www.nps.gov/bibe/contacts.htm) to see if they could clear things up.

Quote
Q: On your backcountry primitive roadside camping page you state that generators are not allowed. On the campground page you state that idling a vehicle to generate power is considered to be the same as using a generator. Does this mean than idling a vehicle for power generation at a primitive backcountry site is also prohibited? The Superintendent's Compendium does not mention generator usage in the backcountry camping section, only in the frontcountry camping section.

A: You are correct in your statement that idling a vehicle is the same as generating power.

As far as the "no generators" in the backcountry, we are actually looking into that.  That regulation used to be in the Superintendent's compendium, and a couple of people are checking on whether the Backcountry Management Plan includes the regulation or not.  Much of Big Bend National Park is under protection as a proposed wilderness area [proposed but not designated as such], which would prohibit generator use, but we are checking on this.

Thank you for noticing this.  I will get back to you as soon as I have a definitive answer.

So, things may change....

I expect your request was well intended, but you know that the reflex answer would be to say no.  Now, for certain, they will find a way to prove it or emphasize it.  Good luck.

That response in sum says nothing except the writer's desire to regulate others.  "You are correct in your statement that idling a vehicle is the same as generating power." DUH, what's the definition of an engine?

Please note the careful wording.  They did not say idling a vehicle is the same as running a generator.

If park management had a lick of sense they would REQUIRE you to idle your engine for 20 minutes every couple of days at the same back country site to make sure you didn't run your battery down and risk being stranded in the desert.  I can't wait for the definitive answer.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Roy on March 18, 2009, 11:37:09 PM
Trying to think of a way to say this without coming off as over-the-top (again);  not sure it can be done.

Quote (from "The Big Chill"):  Rationalizations are more important than sex.

You guys want to run your engines to generate power in the back country;  and you rationalize that it should be OK because driving is allowed in the back country.  Driving's necessary to access the back country (for 99% of us), power generation isn't.  And the more of these 12V gizmos hit the market, the more people will run their engines to generate power for them.  So I draw my line here.  Leave the gizmos at home.  (As I'm typing,  there's a commercial on TV for a portable Honda generator that's "perfect for camping").

Technology produces this stuff, but it also produces solutions that don't pollute.  I'm using lights, radios, chargers, etc., that run off solar cells and hand cranks instead of batteries.  Cheaper and cleaner than batteries or gas.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 18, 2009, 11:44:36 PM
Trying to think of a way to say this without coming off as over-the-top (again);  not sure it can be done.

Quote (from "The Big Chill"):  Rationalizations are more important than sex.

You guys want to run your engines to generate power in the back country;  and you rationalize that it should be OK because driving is allowed in the back country.  Driving's necessary to access the back country (for 99% of us), power generation isn't.  And the more of these 12V gizmos hit the market, the more people will run their engines to generate power for them.  So I draw my line here.  Leave the gizmos at home.  (As I'm typing,  there's a commercial on TV for a portable Honda generator that's "perfect for camping").

Technology produces this stuff, but it also produces solutions that don't pollute.  I'm using lights, radios, chargers, etc., that run off solar cells and hand cranks instead of batteries.  Cheaper and cleaner than batteries or gas.

Roy, fair enough.  And I promise to run I-10 enough under 80 mph while driving to the park in order to save enough gas to justify the few quarts of gas required to occasionally start and idle the truck in the back country.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RikD on March 18, 2009, 11:55:42 PM
Here's what every back road camper needs for their non-generator power requirements.  They say you can pick one up for less than $100,000!   :icon_lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq0hlqGgI4c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq0hlqGgI4c)
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 19, 2009, 12:12:30 AM
If only they made that in a convertible so you could sleep under the stars!  Let's see: at a 100,000 dollars and if one uses it, say, a month a year for 10 years that will be only $333.33 a night.  Assume a reasonable resale value at the end of the 10 years so figure $250 a night PLUS, fuel, operating costs, maintenance, etc. What a deal! 

Nah, I'll stick with the ol' F150, loaded with a bunch of stuff, and consume an almost incalculably small amount of energy in comparison, since I need a truck anyway.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RikD on March 19, 2009, 12:26:31 AM
Who needs stars, when you have satellite HD hookup on your beefy sized LCD monitor.  Here is another of view the unit in all it's glory.

http://www.lancecamper.com/livingthelancelife/brianbrawdy.html (http://www.lancecamper.com/livingthelancelife/brianbrawdy.html)

On a windy night out in Juniper Canyon, you could probably have enough juice to run your laptop, lock onto a satellite internet link and write trip reports as they happen - and most importantly of all... make some popcorn in the 12V microwave!
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Fred on March 19, 2009, 12:43:45 AM
Looks like a nice rig. 

I wish I had the kind of money it takes to spend it on something like that.  Coarse, if I did have that kind of money I am not so sure that is how I'd spend it.  But to each his own. 

People should enjoy life.  If it brings him happiness then I say go for it.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 19, 2009, 12:46:49 AM
Please let us know when you get yours.  Be sure and post some pictures!  If you are into hanging out in an RV, Big Bend would be a great place to do it!

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: homerboy2u on March 19, 2009, 10:46:43 AM
Of course this is just too tempting to avoid,i mean just look at this discussion: from a 12v MicroW to idling engine for recharging batteries to writting somebody in BiBe for defining some laws of the back country to a $100,000 G's of camping stuff...what were you posting initially,professor Bill?. :icon_lol:

 Anyhow,from the looks of that rig,that is no backtrails rig at all.Not with all those gizmoz bouncing around inside,you are going to have something going wrong eventually and kill your electronics if you want to venture out in to the boonies. Take it from me, i even broke a dualbander antena with a spring installed just by jolting the monster truck back and forth.

 I hope he enjoys his rig and post some pictures for us to enjoy.

 Sorry professor,but even the Moderator gave in and went 180? on your initial post...... :icon_lol:

Moderator note: :icon_redface:
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Ay Chihuahua! on March 19, 2009, 10:58:55 AM
Of course this is just too tempting to avoid,i mean just look at this discussion: from a 12v MicroW to idling engine for recharging batteries to writting somebody in BiBe for defining some laws of the back country to a $100,000 G's of camping stuff...what were you posting initially,professor Bill?. :icon_lol:

Bravo, Homero!   :eusa_clap:

I nominate this thread for most ridiculous of 2009. 
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Al on March 19, 2009, 11:11:21 AM
I second the nomination. So much has been said about so very little.

Al
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: SA Bill on March 19, 2009, 08:12:58 PM
Yeah...this thread has wandered far and wide from where it started! I was being facetious about using a 12V microwave for camping...just like I was being facetious about the portable bathroom set up for hiking the South Rim. How we got around to self sustaining "green" RVs is kinda interesting...many points of view here. That's what makes it interesting! :icon_biggrin:

Put a fork in it...this thread is done!
  Bill
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on March 19, 2009, 10:08:19 PM
Put a fork in it...this thread is done!
Well at least until the NPS makes up their mind on the generator issue, at which time I'll probably have to split the topic up...
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: presidio on March 20, 2009, 04:12:52 AM
Put a fork in it...this thread is done!
Well at least until the NPS makes up their mind on the generator issue, at which time I'll probably have to split the topic up...

What's that humming sound? :icon_eek:
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: RichardM on June 10, 2009, 03:57:30 PM
With this microwave oven (http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/06/usb-microwave-oven-is-the-smallest-in-the-world/), you'll only need your laptop for power.
Title: Re: 12V Microwave Oven!
Post by: Undertaker on June 10, 2009, 04:47:55 PM
Go solar.