Emergency Locators

[SA Bill]

Reading docdpp's report about having a mild heart attack while alone out at Grapevine Hills got me to thinking again about buying and carrying some sort of personal locator for those times when I'm in the areas of BB away from most other hikers. Are any of you all using a device like SPOT or a personal locator? From the reviews on the REI web site, the SPOT unit may not be one I'd stake my life on. Maybe a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) operating on 406 MHz is the only way to go? Any thoughts from the ones out ther pushing the envelope?
  Thanks!
    Bill

[Casa Grande]

There is a thread on the board discussing a rescue he experienced whilst climbing Elephant Tusk....

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/your-trip-reports/warning-initial-trip-reportelephant-tuskdecember-3031-t2695.0.html

[presidio]

Reading docdpp's report about having a mild heart attack while alone out at Grapevine Hills got me to thinking again about buying and carrying some sort of personal locator for those times when I'm in the areas of BB away from most other hikers. Are any of you all using a device like SPOT or a personal locator? From the reviews on the REI web site, the SPOT unit may not be one I'd stake my life on. Maybe a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) operating on 406 MHz is the only way to go? Any thoughts from the ones out ther pushing the envelope?
  Thanks!
    Bill

I have one of each. The Spot is okay but it's less robust technology. Mostly useful for social tracking and it does have useful application as a signaling device to let (if you pay for the near real-time track option) friends/family know things are okay...using the 'check in' function. It also has a 'send help' feature that you can change the default 'send help' message to anything you want...this function results ONLY in notification of your self-selected list of contacts. However, a major drawback is that you cannot change the message on the fly unless you have internet access as this all is set up online. So you pretty much are stuck with what you leave home with. The Spot is using different frequencies and satellites than the PLBs. Lastly, it has a 911 function that mimics the PLB, it results in SAR organizations being notified. and, while this generates a true emergency response, it filters first through the Spot system before anyone else is notified. In that regard it functions much like On-Star.

Now, if you want a device that absolutely will send help when you REALLY have an emergency, then you want a PLB.  Spot does not compare at all to a PLB and, despite the Spot marketing, it is closer to a toy than a critical tool, but a very fine toy it is. PLB signals feed directly into the national SAR monitoring network and will result in the fastest possible response and, due to the technology, a much more accurate position fix than a Spot.

Other considerations:
a) the PLB has a high initial cost but that's it. No subscription or other costs post-purchase. You are required to register the device (and renew it at least every 2 years) but there is no charge.
b) the Spot has a moderate initial cost and then perpetual annual subscription fees for both basic service and the tracking feature. After a couple of years you will have exceeded the total cost of a PLB.
c) the Spot is lighter in weight than a PLB and in a significantly smaller form factor.

They each have their strengths and weaknesses but I absolutely wouldn't bet my life on a Spot.

I am not sure I am going to keep my Spot when the first year subscription runs out. If you are into amateur radio you can achieve much the same service as Spot with an APRS system but it relies on ground-based repeaters so would likely not be of any use in places like Big Bend (or at least would not have near the coverage of the satellite systems). In track mode the Spot sends signals at fixed 10 minute intervals. If you were in a situation where you suddenly could not activate the 911 function then the search area could expand enormously based on the last fix...the faster you travel the vastly larger the search area becomes. Perhaps not a truly critical issue when on foot, but in a truck or aircraft you can go a long way in 10 minutes. Still, a 10 minute fix is better than no fix at all.

The PLB goes with me everywhere. The system has a good record of use vs. inadvertent activation or misuse. Inadvertent activation is nearly impossible as the cases are designed so that you have to take very explicit actions to send a call for help; it can't come on in your pack or transmit because you dropped it. Since the PLB is required to be registered through NOAA, owners get ample reminders that the device is an emergency locator and not something you play with or even test. It's analagous to using a fire pull station, once you activate it, you cannot cancel the call. Someone WILL be coming and soon.

Hope that helps your decision. If you have the money, get both; if not, I'd go for the PLB. You can amaze your friends with your GPS track that you plot after you get home.

[betteroutside]

You will have an additional cost, eventually, with the PLB. You are supposed to have the battery replaced after 5 years. So far the prices I have been able to get are $250+ for a battery replacement and test. OUCH! mine is due, but just might buy a new one instead. Smaller and lighter than the one I bought initially when they first became eligible for use in the lower 48. Just a factor you might want to think about.

[SA Bill]

Thanks all!
I remember that report VG...pretty scary and would have turned out tragically without the PLB>

I hear you Presidio! It would be nice to have the SPOT send updates on location to the family back home. It sounds like the SPOT is not something I would rely on for getting a message to SAR if things went to hell in a hand basket. I'll probably invest in a PLB before my next solo back country foray. Any suggestions on models? I'd definitely get one that has GPS built in to send location along with the help request.

After 5 years I guess it would be time for a new unit anyway betteroutside. You know electronics...usually obsolete within 6 months to a year after purchase.

Great food for thought folks! Anyone have suggestions on models to consider?
  Thanks!
    Bill

[dkerr24]

Another option to check into is renting a satellite phone for your next trip.  Folks on remote hikes in the Grand Canyon carry those; if those phones work in narrow corridors of side canyons, no doubt they would operate with good results in wide open areas like Big Bend.  The airtime has come down quite a bit over the past few years.

The ranger at Panther Junction that setup my last backpacking trip told me many people there now use satellite phones as their only phone since cell phones still have very spotty reception in that remote area.

Another advantage of a sat phone is that you can SPEAK to the rescuers and give them detailed information on how to find you, your current condition, etc.  A PLB or Spot cannot do that, and as reported in that link about the rescue at Elephant Tusk, they may not be very accurate on reporting your location.

Do I carry at sat phone, PLB, or Spot?  No, I'm just too cheap and trusting my own blind luck.  lol

[homerboy2u]

Thanks all!

Great food for thought folks! Anyone have suggestions on models to consider?
  Thanks!
   Bill

 Yes Professor. I remember checking......why am i writting in purple? ... . Anyhow,this is the link for the Motorola's Iridium 9555 Satellite Phone. I will let others chime in with Spot's and PLB's links.

 Interesting conversation.

[presidio]

You will have an additional cost, eventually, with the PLB. You are supposed to have the battery replaced after 5 years. So far the prices I have been able to get are $250+ for a battery replacement and test. OUCH! mine is due, but just might buy a new one instead. Smaller and lighter than the one I bought initially when they first became eligible for use in the lower 48. Just a factor you might want to think about.

Yes, quite correct. I glossed over that aspect because both types of units need batteries but the PLB is not user replaceable. However, amortizing the PLB costs work out to about $60 a year vs. $150 a year for a full Spot subscription. Of course the initial cost of the Spot is about a third of a PLB.

You have to make your own value judgment on this. The difference is that a PLB is built and maintained to be a life-saving device. A Spot offers a similar function but its marketing seems oriented more toward the tracking and messaging features. Over a period of long-term use, the total costs of the two devices closely converge.

Consequently, you pays your money and takes your chances after you decide what features are most important to you.

I put it in the context of an old advertisement for motorcycle helmets from the 70s. It boils down to what your life is worth to you.

You can buy a helmet that meets the requirements of the various helmet laws, or you can buy a helmet designed to serve the purpose regardless of legislative fiat.

The ad went....Have a $10 head? Then buy a $10 helmet. The point being that the $10 helmet would keep you from a ticket but would not necessarily keep you from becoming a vegetable after a crash.

Like any other piece of emergency equipment, you do not buy it with the intention necessarily of using it. You buy it for the security and capability it offers if the time comes you need it.

In a true emergency you want some assurance the item will work as advertised. Since using the test circuit of a PLB essentially only drains the battery faster you have to take it on faith that it works (and every PLB I've seen strongly cautions you to test it only ONCE, if at all). The large body of evidence with other PLB activations say that it works as advertised and works well.

My experience with the Spot in track and messaging modes is that it doesn't work as well as the company would like you to believe. It is, well, Spotty in coverage; being highly susceptible to even moderate sky obstruction. I have had difficulty getting a reliable track log even when on the dashboard of my truck, a place a regular GPS has no trouble functioning. This partially is a function of the fact that the Spot is also a transmitter, not just a receiver, and it's signal output isn't all that robust; thus the obstruction issue. Is a PLB affected to a similar extent? I don't know. Perhaps. Obviously, neither will work if totally obstructed from a sky view.

The Spot is a good idea that needs more time in the oven. An ideal device would be a PLB that has Spot capabilities using a separate battery set so the prinicpal function of the PLB is unaffected and available without worrying about how many messages you've sent. However, this would require a dual frequency setup and you'd have the annual subscription cost for the Spot-like feature. It's highly unlikely there ever would be any allowance to use the SARSATs as a messaging platform as that would only tie up critical resources.

[SA Bill]

Interesting indeed Homero!
What's wrong with purple??  

I did a quick look on line at sat phone rentals. Most seem to be less than $80.00 USD per week for the rental. Some include shipping both ways. Outgoing call cost per minute is pretty high...but...if I'm understanding the info correctly, some rentals do not charge for incoming directly dialed calls to the rented sat phone. This seems like a good thing!

I check in every night (pre-paid phone card + pay phone) with the folks at home when I'm in BB just so they know I'm okay. If I'm in the back country where there is no pay phone, I can't check in. I tell my wife when I'll be back out and she knows that if I don't check in by the time I tell her, she should get the Rangers to find me. Workable system as long as the pay phones work when I get out of the back country to check in. Doesn't allow for any change of plans once the back country hike starts.

With a reasonably priced sat phone rental, I could have my wife call me every evening to make sure I'm okay and there would be no talk time costs? That seems like a good deal. I could get a call each evening whether I was in the Basin or out on the S Rim. Another plus...she could call me when she's ready to talk...no more of me calling her when Dancing With the Stars is on.  

Sooo...has anyone here rented a sat phone for a BB trip? How did it work out? Am I correct about incoming calls being free?
  Thanks!
     Bill

[presidio]

Thanks all!
Any suggestions on models? I'd definitely get one that has GPS built in to send location along with the help request.

Mine is from ACR Electronics. All I can say is they seem to be the market leaders much in the way Garmin is synonymous with GPS. Since PLBs have a specific function and regulatory requirements, any unit should provide what you need so you pretty much can concentrate on the size/cost issues.

All PLBs transmit GPS info, it's not something you have to select as an option.

[homerboy2u]

Thanks all!
Any suggestions on models? I'd definitely get one that has GPS built in to send location along with the help request.

Mine is from ACR Electronics. All I can say is they seem to be the market leaders much in the way Garmin is synonymous with GPS.

  ACR's Electronic webpage

Interesting indeed Homero!
What's wrong with purple??
   Bill

 No problem,Professor.....PURPLE identifies you as you always post with this color, Voni the red lady posts in RED and Jr. Ranger used to post in GREEN. I just did not want to be a copy cat,leave the originality to the members,that is all. I'm color blind....

[presidio]

Sooo...has anyone here rented a sat phone for a BB trip? How did it work out? Am I correct about incoming calls being free?

Don't know anything about that, but here is a tidbit for those who may own property in south Brewster county.

Because cell phone and landline phone infrastructure in the region is way less than what folks today would consider acceptable, there is some sort of subsidized sat phone system. Qualified persons can obtain a sat phone, either fixed or mobile, and 300 minutes of air time for a ridiculous price....$15 a month. Setup fee is $49.

I checked into this and the requirement is that you be able to show actual residence in the area...things like utility bills or other documents that PROVE you LIVE there...not just visiting or own raw land. If it wasn't for that requirement I'd snap one of these up in a heartbeat.

The service is available through DTS; more info here

http://www.dialtonetexas.com/AllSitePages/FAQ/FAQ-Index.htm
and
http://www.dialtonetexas.com/Templates/PageBody.htm

Oh, to have an address down there even if just long enough to get the service,

[dkerr24]

Sooo...has anyone here rented a sat phone for a BB trip? How did it work out? Am I correct about incoming calls being free?

Don't know anything about that, but here is a tidbit for those who may own property in south Brewster county.

Because cell phone and landline phone infrastructure in the region is way less than what folks today would consider acceptable, there is some sort of subsidized sat phone system. Qualified persons can obtain a sat phone, either fixed or mobile, and 300 minutes of air time for a ridiculous price....$15 a month. Setup fee is $49.

I checked into this and the requirement is that you be able to show actual residence in the area...things like utility bills or other documents that PROVE you LIVE there...not just visiting or own raw land. If it wasn't for that requirement I'd snap one of these up in a heartbeat.

The service is available through DTS; more info here

http://www.dialtonetexas.com/AllSitePages/FAQ/FAQ-Index.htm
and
http://www.dialtonetexas.com/Templates/PageBody.htm

Oh, to have an address down there even if just long enough to get the service,

Presidio:  That must have been the phone plan the ranger at Panther Junction told me about.  The pricing he mentioned was in the range you describe.  It seemed dirt cheap compared to what I had priced over the internet.

[presidio]

Presidio:  That must have been the phone plan the ranger at Panther Junction told me about.  The pricing he mentioned was in the range you describe.  It seemed dirt cheap compared to what I had priced over the internet.

Yep, that's what subsidies will do for you.

[jeffblaylock]

I took a SPOT Satellite messenger to Rocky Mountain National Park this past weekend. My primary purpose for carrying it is, to inform friends and loved ones of my position and status 2-4 times a day to let them know I was OK. It performed ably in this role.

In fact, every attempt to signal my position was successful. This was in no small part due to my trying to make sure it was successful, namely by placing SPOT out in the open and leaving it alone for 20-25 minutes. Only once did I put it under partial tree cover, and it nonetheless made contact. I did not push its limits -- I was more interested in knowing if it could perform at or near 100% in semi-ideal conditions. For obvious reasons, I did not test the "911" or "send help" modes.

I also did not test the "track" mode, nor did I purchase that option. Everything I've read about it from folks who have used it suggests the track function -- live streaming of your position every 10 minutes -- is not ready for prime time. This is not surprising, given that it requires line-of-sight to a low-orbiting satellite and various things like terrain, your hiking hat, your head, trees, and the like will get in the way. Also, SPOT's makers recommend keeping it at least 12 inches away from any other GPS. If I were using the tracking option, I'd attach SPOT to the top of my backpack, putting it within about 12 inches of my Garmin 60CSx, which rides on my pack's sternum strap.

As for the larger question of this thread, I would not rely on SPOT as my life-saver. Of course, I would not rely on a PLB, satellite phone, or cell phone either, although any of these devices (including SPOT) can increase your chances of rescue. No, I rely on me to rescue myself. The wilderness is not an amusement park with security and first aid personnel stationed every 100 yards or so. I accept the risk of entering the wilderness and do not count on anything but my own wits and experience to get me out of any bad situation. If you want extra security and the hope that help will come, then I would take a PLB over SPOT, as that is it's function.

In a perfect world, there would be a single device which:

• Acted like a mapping GPS, showing current position plotted on a topo map, with waypoints, routes, tracks, etc.
• Acted like a SPOT, permitting transmission of current position and condition to a single or group of recipients
• Unlike SPOT, permitting custom messages from the field, a la Twitter of text messaging
• Unlike SPOT, providing feedback that a message went through (or failed to go through) in real time
• Acted like a PLB, functioning as an emergency beacon as most PLBs do today, except with feedback that an emergency signal was received and help is on the way

That requires antennas and transmitters for multiple technologies. The GPS satellites use one set of frequencies; the constellation of satellites for two-way communication use another; and the PLB uses a third. This adds expense, weight, cost, and power consumption to the equation. However, as technology advances, miniaturizes, and becomes more power efficient, such a device may not be too far off in the future.

All that said, I will take SPOT with me to Idaho later this summer and use it to inform interested parties of my/our trek progress in a region where I will be cell phone-silent for 10-12 days. I won't expect it to save my life, but I expect it will help narrow down search options if something goes wrong, whether the "911" message goes through or not.