gear

[leigh]

I'm making the plunge (gradually) to lighter weight gear. Most of my gear is moderately light as it was purchased with kayak camping in mind. But that was over 10 years ago, and stuff is so much lighter now, and after my first trip to BIBE I am determined to start backpacking. Most of my hiking will be done when the bugs are at a minimum, and prefer desert to mountains in winter, saving the summer for  paddling trips. I have read most of the posts in this category and have picked up lots of valuable info.  I want to go as light as possible without sacrificing comfort; I'm 55, nuff said. I have lots of time to research great deals; but I have my eye on the new BA Fly Creek 2 tent, a Marmot Helium 15 bag, and have looked at packs,which will be my last purchase, but thinking Go Lite. I don't have much natural padding and sleep pretty cold, and on my side. There are a lot of pads, and while I'd like to go lite, I'm thinking this is an area I might not want to go ul. The BA insulated Air Core is 21 oz. Not crazy about the neo air. I do have some concerns about punctures. What help can you experts give?
thanks,
leigh

[jeffblaylock]

Some preliminary stuff you should do:

1. Buy a postal scale that weighs down to tenth of ounces (preferably grams). They cost $20 at office supply stores.

2. List all your current gear and weigh everything.

3. List what you envision taking on your backpacking trek, with weights added up.

4. Set a budget -- this is important, else you will not spend efficiently

Once you've done these, do research to evaluate $/oz and substitute gear within your budget based on minimizing cost per weight saved. You might be surprised how replacing many smaller items cheaply is more cost effective than replacing one of the big items.

You are right to conclude that focusing solely on weight may sacrifice comfort. No point going ultralight if you're going to be miserable. So I'd add a 5. to the above: list in order of need the items where you'd be willing to sacrifice comfort for weight saving.

Make spreadsheets, take lots of notes, but don't be impulsive, and don't buy something just because it's on sale.

Have fun!

[elhombre]

2 things to consider:  Stick with a tent which has a separate rain fly.  Tents, which are very light, with only one shell don't keep you dry inside during rain if you touch the sides.  They also keep moisture from your breathe trapped inside so that your bag stays moist and colder. 

2nd :  If you can find something even close to what you want at REI, then buy it there.  If you have ANY problem with it, even years later, they will give you your money back or change you out to their newer version.  My wife and I camp a lot;we sleep on the ground at least 5 weeks a year.  We bought our first tent from them in 2001.  We are on our 4th tent from them and each time we either had a direct exchange or spent a little extra money to upgrade to the next level tent.  The zippers on the tent would give up on us.  Never left us unable to close the doors though.  I don't work for them.  I am just completely surprised they do this.  It seems like the best insurance on making an expensive purchase for something which does wear out.

[mule ears]

Jeff is right on with his suggestions on how to proceed.  It is a process so take your time and enjoy the research.

If you haven't found this deeply hidden gem on sleeping bags it is a good discussion of the 15-20 degree bag options.

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/nonbibe-trip-reports/yosemite-in-july-10day-backpack-itinerary-t5413.135.html

and I am sure you have found this one which has many great thread links too.

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/general-outdoor-stuff-camping-equipment/lets-go-ultralight-t7495.0.html

I am 53 and can "feel your potential pain".  My immediate recommendations are

1. Sleeping bags- western mountaineering are worth every penny and are warmer than advertised.
2. Packs don't overlook Six Moons Designs (Starlite and Swift), ULA-equipment, and Gossamer Gear Gorilla as good desert packs with load carrying capacity.  Golite seems to be slowly getting heavier with time.
3. I am a tarp not tent fan but make sure you look at the Henry Shires tarp tents
4. For the desert particularly, I am a fan of using multiple pads for various reasons, punctures and comfort being the main ones.  That being said the BA Insulated Aircore you have at 21 oz. is pretty good for weight and comfort, but it is puncture prone.  I have attached a spreadsheet I put together with various pads and specs if it helps.  I was actually looking at how to combine various pads to get the lightest weight for winter camping but it gives you the details anyway.

[Ay Chihuahua!]

1. Sleeping bags- western mountaineering are worth every penny and are warmer than advertised.

+1 

[carlhbecker]

I recently have gotten back in to over night hiking.  I did some research first and found www.backpackinglight.com.  I have purchased items from REI and like there service but if you really want to lighten up there are many small companies that offer great products.  I have my base weight down to 8 pounds.  I plan to carry 6 pounds of camera gear and 13 pounds of water and food in a 34L Osprey Exos framed pack for a over night on the South Rim in late March.  I do have a single wall tent at 20 ounces from Tarptent and an 8 ounce tarp.  A closed cell foam pad is the lightest sleeping I have come across and I have combined that with the small NeoAir.  I will be 55 in April.

[PacingTheCage]

I second the REI comments.  I've returned a few items to them without any problem.

Seems to be several of us here who are mid 50's, sleep on our sides, and have little padding left!  On my first trip to BiBe I used my REI 25 bag and was very warm.  The only issue is that the mummy design is worthless for sleeping on your side or rolling around.

Are their any light weigth alternatives that allow you to sleep on your side, move around?

[Ay Chihuahua!]

I recently have gotten back in to over night hiking.  I did some research first and found www.backpackinglight.com.  I have purchased items from REI and like there service but if you really want to lighten up there are many small companies that offer great products.  I have my base weight down to 8 pounds.  I plan to carry 6 pounds of camera gear and 13 pounds of water and food in a 34L Osprey Exos framed pack for a over night on the South Rim in late March.  I do have a single wall tent at 20 ounces from Tarptent and an 8 ounce tarp.  A closed cell foam pad is the lightest sleeping I have come across and I have combined that with the small NeoAir. I will be 55 in April.

Is there any way you could post all the items included in your 8 pound base weight?  I'd love to see it and maybe learn from you.

[RichardM]

Are their any light weigth alternatives that allow you to sleep on your side, move around?

There's always the Selk Bag, although I don't think REI carries them.

I know, since Randell posted this "ergonimic" bag, along time ago...

[Robert]

Are their any light weigth alternatives that allow you to sleep on your side, move around?

Unfortunately there are not a lot options for us side sleepers. One option is to use a quilt (sleeping bag/blanket w/ no zipper). But I've never used one and hesitate to get one for winter camping.

Here is one company that makes light weight quilts.
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/main_pages/product_sleep_systems.htm

[leigh]

Wow, thanks guys! I appreciate all the responses.

Jeff, I currently have my gear on a spreadsheet...all 45 lbs. not including food or water , however this is my canoe camping list, where I carry a 7lb chair, my tent and Noah 9 tarp, etc.
One of the favorite lines of canoeist is "this ain't backpacking you know"
Setting a budget is a great idea, now that I have a general idea of what stuff costs.

elhombre, I've been an REI member for about 10 years; when I bought my first round of gear. My REI half-dome tent and REI 35 degree synthetic bag both still serve me well. I have been a little disappointed in some of their recent stuff though, and seems reviewers concur; the new half-dome got really bad reviews, and my favorite convertible hiking pants (REI brand)are so bad I wrote a letter to the company...they also had terrible reviews. I think they may be trying to stay at a decent price point but are sacrificing quality to do it. I do agree about their return policy though. I also agree there are a lot of independent folks out there making great gear.

Mule Ears, thanks for the first link, I didn't see it, and yes I did read the second. I did give the Shire's tarp tent a look see, but I think I'm gonna stay a double wall tent girl for now, just what I'm use to I guess. Same thing for hammocks, although many of my compadres swear by them, I just camp too many places without trees.

carlhbecker, I also need to factor in camera gear, although last fall I made a decision to go with a camera (Canon SX10) that is kinda in between a p&s, and a DSLR. It's a compromise I can live with. It weights a couple lbs, and then I have a Slik Sprint Pro II tripod that I sometimes doubles as a trekking pole. And of course water in the desert is an issue. I won't be carrying my nalgene bottles for that anymore.

robert, many of my friends that use hammocks talk a lot about quilts as the way to go.

I haven't bought anything yet and plan on taking my time, since warmer weather is around the corner, I will be heading away from the trails and toward the rivers instead.
Thanks again!
funny, I didn't start kayaking til I was 45, then canoeing at 50, now backpacking at 55?  Hey, I think I'm actually getting younger instead of older
leigh

[poke]

I'm confused by my fellow side sleepers. I use an REI sub kilo 45 down. It's tighter than other mummy bags I've had, and yet, I've never had a problem sleeping on my side. I use a closed cell ridge rest for the same puncture resistance that y'all mention.

I'm a tarp for safety, but usually under the stars only sleeper. My advice to several friends who were tent sleepers was, just try it. One night. They have all loved it. Despite the best ventilation on tents, I still feel like I'm sleeping in a plastic bag. Wait, a nylon bag. Anyway, it will make you consider microclimates for selecting the best sleeping spots, which is part of the love of off trail for me.

Good luck

[Terlingua50337]

Man, if I came up on one of these in the high lonesome I don't know if I'd give it a wide berth or try and help it. This looks like something even a chupacabra wouldn't mess with.

[carlhbecker]

Moderator note: I decided to practice my table building skills and reorganized your post. I also corrected a math error where you dropped an ounce. Sorry to add weight to your pack!

Is there any way you could post all the items included in your 8 pound base weight? I'd love to see it and maybe learn from you.

Pack exos 34	34
Tarp zpack hexamid	20
S bag montbell ss30	20
Pillow BPL	1
Pad Neoair short	9
Pad 1/8” night light	2
	85 86

Gloves	2
wind rain jacket	4
down parka Montbell	9
Pants BPL wool base	4
Socks wool	2
	21

light	3
compass	2
map	3
first aid	3.5
whistle	0.5
watch thermo	2
	14

soto stove	2.6
pot .7L, cup, spoon	6
fuel 100gr	5
wind barrier	2
soap	2
rope	1.4
lotion, repelent	2
coffee cup paper starbucks	0.5
	21.5

total 141.5 142.5 oz or about 8.8 8.9 lbs. My memory is off by .8 .9 lbs sorry. I did check out a Gosamer Gear Miniposa pack that weighed 16 oz which would have put me under 8 but for me the Osprey is more comfortable.

I have one camera, a Nikon D700 which is real heavy but I hike to take photos so I have to be part mule also I will have a small Gitzo tripod and two lenses.

I have gained quite a bit of knowledge from www.backpackinglight.com. Most members there are much more light weight then I.

[catz]

I'm 60.

I highly recommend sleeping bags made by Feathered Friends (they weigh less than two pounds and are highly water resistant while still breathable).  Big Agnes makes a great pad.  Like Poke, I don't understand the issue of some side sleepers.  I don't have any trouble.

I, too, rarely use a tent--or even a tarp--unless I'm car camping (even then I usually sleep outside unless rain threatens).  I have only been caught in the rain a couple of times and easily lived to tell the tale.  I can't think of a better way to save both money and weight than by ditching the tent.