Grand Canyon Permit advice?

[randell]

My hiking buddy is about to submit a backcountry permit in hopes of getting three nights in the Grand Canyon in October.  He was wondering how long it may take to get a response as he is moving in the coming weeks.  He was also wondering if anyone had any tips we may not be aware of for the permit process.  None of the six of us going have ever had to deal with advance permits for backpacking.

[Ray52]

I can't comment from personal experience on the response time for advance requests, but I was very impressed with the efficiency of the individuals in the backcountry office during me recent visit.  At any rate, this is going to be a great trip report!

[dkerr24]

I've dealt with the backcountry office a number of times for backpacking trips I've taken there.  The itinerary posted is along the main corridor trails, which are the hardest to get.  At least your friend did list a number of alternate dates.  

I see you are starting the hike from the North Rim.  Cottonwood camp is about halfway down (or up depending on your direction) the North Kaibab trail.  I'm assuming you guys are taking a shuttle van to the North Rim and leaving your vehicle on the South Rim.

He can fax that on June 1.  Their response will come back via snail mail within 2 weeks (on average in my experience).

My wife and I are trying to get a similar itinerary.  I did mine a bit differently as I was locked in to a specific week.  What I did was list alternate hikes as my 2nd and 3rd choices... I chose a Hermit/Tonto/Bright Angel loop hike and a Clear Creek hike as alternates to the corridor rim-to-rim hikes.  I may rethink that as my wife would really like to do a rim-to-rim-to-rim hike, and that is only possible using Bright Angel or South Kaibab along with the North Kaibab trail.

My biggest complaint with their process is they desperately need a web permit option.  I have to get a temporary fax account just to fax in my itinerary as I do not have a landline or access to a old-fashioned fax machine.  One would think the busiest park in the country would have their website setup to take permit requests.

Lol, this may get Presidio involved

Good Luck!

Darin

[randell]

Thanks for the info!  I really want to go to Grand Canyon but I am not too keen on the permitting process and the crowds, which is why I like Big Bend - I know where to go and when to go to avoid people.

[dkerr24]

You'll see a fairly regular stream of hikers once you get to Phantom Ranch and start heading up to the South Rim, but I bet you don't see as many on the North Kaibab section of the hike.  Fortunately, Grand Canyon is a huge place and only a very small percentage of visitors actually hike below the rims, and even less hike on the North Kaibab trail.  The closer you get to the South Rim, the more stupid the people will become.  lol

I normally stay away from the corridor trails as I like a bit more solitude.  When my wife and I hiked down the Tanner trail in April, we never saw a single soul until we finally got to the Colorado River.

I think with your experience, you will find the corridor trails quite tame and not all that challenging.  You have broken up the hike into 3 nights which will make for some very easy hikes each day.  The Bright Angel and Kaibab trails receive regular maintenance and are basically dirt sidewalks with plenty of width and really no dangers other than heat and poor physical conditioning.  There is a huge difference between the corridor trails and the other trails in the canyon.  Tanner trail was very exposed (in my opinion) with a number of sections that required very careful placement of your feet to avoid a fatal fall.

[mountaindocdanny]

Mid-October is a spectacular time to be on the North Rim. The canyon framed amongst the golden aspen and scarlet Rocky Mtn maple is awesome.

[dkerr24]

Mid-October is a spectacular time to be on the North Rim. The canyon framed amongst the golden aspen and scarlet Rocky Mtn maple is awesome.

I agree 100%.  October is usually very nice weather wise... temps don't get extremely hot, the summer monsoons are over and typically the days are sunny with cool evenings.  The majority of my GC trips have been in Oct/Nov.

[catz]

Sorry  I got to this late.

If you can, I highly recommend spending two nights at Phantom Ranch, using the intervening day to day hike the Cold Creek trail.  If you don't have the extra day, you can make it from the North Rim all the way to Phantom Ranch in one [long] day.   I think it's about ten miles, but it's all down hill.

About halfway beween Cottonwood and the river there is a turnoff trail (to your right) that goes a short way to a delightful waterfall.

Although probably not very likely, it is possible for there to be snow on the North Rim in late October.

[presidio]

One would think the busiest park in the country would have their website setup to take permit requests.

You expect too much from an organization with nearly 100 years of tradition unmarred by progress.

Lol, this may get Presidio involved

Well, only sort of. I hiked from the North Rim to the river and back many years ago, when a national park was a place you went to recreate, not be regulated and niggled to death by administrivia and core incompetencies.

No plans to go back since I can no longer walk in to the permit shack unannounced, with no formulated plan, walk out with a permit in 10 minutes and be on the trail 15 minutes later (as I did a long time ago). Kids who were victims of structured 'play dates' in their youth grew up to be park permit weenies wanting to control everything you do in 'their' park. No thanks.

Saw a piece on the news tonight about state parks in AZ closing due to budget difficulties. It was apparent from the interviews the people crying about the 'loss' had no clue that just over the ridge was undeveloped, mostly unregulated USFS or BLM land that didn't rely on having an employee around before you could use a public piece of ground. Just as spectacular but there was no one to hold their hand and lead them to it. So, they will have to survive on their memories of fee booths, paved trails and picnic tables until the budget improves and they can go again to over-regulated-ville. Might be years given the financial straits AZ is in.

[dkerr24]

I'm getting a bit off topic here, but the State of AZ must be in a real financial crisis.  They even closed all the rest areas along I-40.  Good luck taking a potty break there...  lol

[presidio]

I'm getting a bit off topic here, but the State of AZ must be in a real financial crisis.  They even closed all the rest areas along I-40.  Good luck taking a potty break there...  lol

Well, unless they recently closed the one just beyond the NM line on I-40, it was open last week when I cruised through there and there's at least one open on I-17. But, yes, most everything that is state government run in the outdoor arena....state parks, rest areas and probably some other stuff is shuttered.

When states and the feds start this kind of retrenchment, it's when the true value of public lands that don't rely on intensive management and staff becomes apparent. Non-park public lands are always open because there are no controls in place to make it possible for them to be denied to the public.

The other nice thing about public land is that when you need to take a pit stop, any side road will do...the land is open and available. I almost never stop in developed rest areas for either rest or pit stops. They are among the most dangerous places on the road, particularly at night. Many times, I pull down a dirt road off a highway or the interstate to a point I cannot be seen and snooze away when I need a nap. No fuss, no muss.

[Ray52]

Have you got your permit yet Randell?

[randell]

Have you got your permit yet Randell?

Came in the mail yesterday and we are good to go!  We are exchanging emails right now lining up flights and rental cars. 

[Ray52]

Glad to hear that and I won't even try to hide how envious I am.  I'm planning a return trip but can't say if it will be this fall or sometime in 2011.  Either way and even though it worked out for me in April, I hope I can get my permits before arriving at the park.

[dkerr24]

I keep checking my credit card account to see if they hit me for $50 for my Oct permit.  Hoping to get a rim-to-rim or Clear Creek as an alternate hike.  Faxed mine in bright and early on June 1st.