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Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 11:10:45 PM »
Shorty, that Mountain Laurel pack represents a level of ultralight I may never attain. Guys like you and Mule Ears and Robert have attained a very high level of craft.  I'm still struggling to find the best way to pack my new Granite Gear Crown V2....and with a pack that light and flimsy, proper packing makes all the difference in how it handles. But also, my idiosyncrasies may represent a significant hurdle. For example, I doubt I'll ever use an ultralight inflatable ground pad like the Neo Air. I'm too committed to my closed cell pads because they're infallible and perfectly suit my preferred M.O. of waking early, and being afoot within 10 minutes or less. 

My idiosyncrasies not withstanding, I have found several ways to cut my packweight in the past year. Here are a few examples of recent changes in my gear, from old and heavy to new and light.

Coughlan's trowel (2oz) versus Deuce of Spades (0.6oz)
Petzl Tikka headlamp (4.2oz) versus Petzl e+LITE (1oz)
Silva Ranger Compass (2.4oz) vs. Suunto M3-D (1.6oz) [plus, the magnifier in the Suunto replaced my reading glasses]
Snowpeak GigaPower stove (3.25oz) vs. Snowpeak Titanium (1.9oz)
GSI Soloist Cookset (10.9oz) vs. Vargo Titanium Bot (4.5oz)
CRKT Tanto Knife (6.3oz) vs. CRKT NIAD Knife (0.6oz)
Nalgene Quart Bottles, 2 (13oz) versus Emptied Club Soda 2-liter Bottle (1.5oz)
Spiral Journal (2.5oz) versus Rite-in-Rain Stapled Journal (0.8oz)
Fisher Space Pen (1oz) versus Fisher Stowaway Pen (0.15oz)
Leica Trinovid BA 8x32 binos (28oz) versus Nikon Trailblazer 8x25 (10oz)
Marmot PreCip Rain Jacket (13oz) versus Outdoor Research Helium II (6.4oz)
Western Mountaineering MityLite Sleeping Bag (26oz) versus Sea-to-Summit Silk Liner (4.5oz) SUMMER ONLY
Osprey Aether 70 liter backpack (4lbs 15oz) versus Granite Gear Crown V2 (2lbs 4oz)

That's a total of 113.75 ounces of weight avoided, which equals over seven pounds. Of course, the first several changes helped me make the last change (a lighter pack), which saved more weight that anything.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 11:29:42 PM by House Made of Dawn »
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 06:23:26 AM »
For those REI members/shoppers you all might be interested in the gear available at REI that Backpackinglight has "curated"

It includes the Granite Gear VC 60 and the Osprey Exos
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

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Online elhombre

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2017, 08:53:57 AM »
For this kind of ching-a-ling, the Volt 60 can't be beat.  Amazon $135  It is under 4# empty.   One of the lightest and cheapest out there.  The main problem is finding a pack that can carry over 40# and be considered an ultra light pack.  If you plan on hiking in the desert, as it sounds you will, you have to have a pack that can carry the 40# (water).  You can do as House did, by re-purchasing all your stuff to lower weight, but that takes time and mucho dinero.  Buy cheap on the Volt, and you can use the extra money you saved on doing just that. The only pack I have found that advertises 30-65#s carrying capacity is the hyperlite 4400 @ $375.  And it weights in at 2.2#.    :icon_eek:   Quite a difference in price and empty weight. 

Remember, you don't have to spend that money at REI.  You can get them to cash it out for you and you can spend it anywhere you want.

I would buy the cheap pack, and spend the extra on a quilt https://enlightenedequipment.com/revelation/

https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/4400-windrider.html#product_tabs_description_tabbed
.
 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014EBRG5M/ref=asc_df_B014EBRG5M5049540/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B014EBRG5M&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194838933099&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1517361556482642707&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028279&hvtargid=pla-312621473428
If other countries on the planet want to see America suffer and ultimately destroyed, who are they cheering for right now?  Trump, or the leftist democrats and their media supported hate machine?

Seek out the facts for yourself.  Begin by using Startpage.com,  not google.

May God Bless America!

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2017, 09:54:38 AM »
For those REI members/shoppers you all might be interested in the gear available at REI that Backpackinglight has "curated"

It includes the Granite Gear VC 60 and the Osprey Exos

One note of caution: there is the Granite Gear VC 60 (the original, using their Vapor Current suspension) and the newer Granite Gear Crown 2 (or as I call it, V2 for version 2). The both can carry up to 35lbs comfortably, they're  not quite the same. The newer version is two ounces heavier, but unlike the earlier version it comes with a removable top pocket as standard equipment, as well as two large hip pockets, and beefier compression straps.  And it's bomb-proof. To my mind, that's a good deal at only +2 ounces (2lbs 4oz total).  I have that newer version. I also believe it's only available through REI, at least for now.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 10:49:08 AM »
Dprather, you asked for advice and you're getting a lot of it.  Many outstanding packs recommended.  But, no matter which pack you choose, you absolutely have to get a set of these.

[/url] https://sectionhiker.com/klymit-revolutionizes-lightweight-backpacking-with-gas-filled-universal-load-lifters/ [/url]
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 10:57:08 AM »
I would not want to carry 60# in a Hyperlite 4400, really doesn't have the frame for that no matter what they say. 

I would put in a plug for the Elemental Horizons Kalais.  Matthew has totally revamped the suspension and now rates it at 45# and the pack bag is a bit larger now too in the large at 60L.
I have the older version which was rated at 35# and last trip carried 38# comfortably so with the new changes it really will be nice.  $270 and 2# 9 oz.

I would link again to my piece on searching for the perfect pack which has lots of other packs mentioned too.
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2017, 01:12:05 PM »
I would link again to my piece on searching for the perfect pack which has lots of other packs mentioned too.

Mule Ears, I've read that one a couple times. It's one of the best, most interesting pieces I've ever read on the technical craft of carrying gear and it's a great tour down memory lane.  Highly recommended for anyone thinking about getting a new pack.

Elhombre is correct about ultralight gear being expensive. Up to a point. Sometimes, as in the case of my switch from Nalgenes to used 2-liter soda bottles, the change can be ridiculously simple and cheap.  The trick, I think, is to replace gear bit by bit as the occasions present themselves.  That's actually mostly what happened to me. Here's a little case study.

* After my last three Coughlan trowels broke during backcountry trips, I finally decided to spring for the Deuce of Spades. Admittedly, the Deuce is ten times more expensive, but I don't think it will ever fail, I will never have to replace it, it takes up almost no space, literally weighs almost nothing, and it's so amazingly tough I could use it as a trenching tool or to dig a foxhole if I had to.  ;)

* The Petzl e+LITE was a a bit of a splurge, but it is the finest general backpacking lamp I've ever owned. For anything other than an alpine ascent, it's perfect. Insanely light, durable, functionally perfect. I bought the e+LITE on sale last year.

* I've had my Silva Ranger Compass for over twenty years, but a mirrored compass simply proved too bulky as I reduced pack size. The sighting mirror was mostly overkill. And the magnifier on the Suunto plate compass allowed me to jettison my reading glasses since I only use them to help me read the fine details on topo maps.  I bought the Suunto on sale this year.

* I paid full price for the Snowpeak Titanium stove and my Vargo Titanium Bot, and I'd do it again, because they helped me solve a problem I've been working on for years: I want an integrated cookset that can boil about a liter of water for rehydrating meals; I want the entire thing to weigh less than one pound; and I want it all to nest inside the cookpot WITH THE STOVE ASSEMBLED ON TOP OF ITS CANISTER. I hate fiddling and don't want to screw, unscrew, screw, unscrew. Not only does it take time, it wastes pressurized gas.  With my new set-up, my stove with attached canister, lighter, single utensil, utility bandanna, and custom titanium windscreen, all fit inside my Vargo Bot and its screw top. The unit is much more compact and packable than my old GSI Soloist cookset. It's virtually bearproof and the entire set-up weighs less than a pound.

*I've used my CRKT Tanto Knife for ten years. But as much security as I draw from it, 6.3oz is a bit ridiculous for a backpacking knife. The CRKT NIAD at 0.6oz does the bare minimum of what I need for food prep, repairs, and climbing, but I'd feel pretty silly facing down a bear with it.  I bought the NIAD online for a killer price.

*On my last trip, I switched to carrying my water in two emptied Club Soda bottles (2-liters each). I used Nalgenes for years. Then a combo of MSR Dromedary Bags and Platypus Softbottles. But the soda bottles are dirt cheap, only 0.2 ounces heavier than Platypus, and actually more useful in my new Granite Gear pack because their rigidity helps stabilize the pack.

*One of the frustrations of my recent December cross-park hike was losing my journal to the days and days of soaking rain. I vowed never to let that happend again. So when it came time to buy a new journal, the Rite-in-Rain notebook was the obvious solution, and it weighs a fraction of what I was using before. As does the tiny Fisher Stowaway pen that writes best on it.

*I've been carrying my Leicas for almost 30 years. Best binos in the world when I bought them, but back then they were a professional necessity. I finally accepted the fact that they are not a necessity when backpacking recreationally. I bought a pair of Nikon Trailblazers on super sale ($40) for my recent spring trip because, you know, migration. But otherwise, from now on I'll probably just take a tiny, cheap monocular under 2 ounces.

*After eight years of heavy use, my old Marmot PreCip Rain Jacket was worn out and hardly working. It wet out and leaked in December. So I updated to an Outdoor Research Helium II at half the weight and only a few more dollars.

*My Western Mountaineering MityLite was the second sleeping bag I ever bought (after my venerable 1976 North Face Cat's Meow, which I still have and my wife uses). The Mitylite has always been my go-to bag when temps are expected to stay above 35 degrees. In summer, I open it up and use it like a quilt. But as I contemplated a June trip to the desert of Big Bend where the nights would start at 80 degrees and MAYBE get down to 70, I thought to myself, "WTF?" and instead bought a Sea-to-Summit Silk Liner weighing only 4.5 ounces. It was the perfect solution.

*I had owned five backpacks in my lifetime. The first was a giant Kelty external frame from the 70's. Followed by a 45-liter Lowe Alpine internal, once I started lightening my load by going tentless in the 80's an early 90's. But that pack (fully-loaded) was stolen from my campsite in the Lincoln National Forest one day while I was out doing field work. I replaced it with a Mountainsmith that lasted many years before I beat it nearly to death and switched to an REI Flash 65. But the Flash blew out a hipbelt and packback under an 88-pound load while I was playing Hero Dad on a family trip in Big Bend. The Flash was succeeded by my Osprey Aether 70-liter and I've been very, very happy with it. But as I continue to lighten my load, the almost 5lb Aether just seems to be too much. So during the last REI sale, I sprung for a Granite Gear Crown 2 at 2lbs 4oz. I used my 20% coupon, plus my dividend, and it cost me about $85. I like the Crown. I'm still trying to work out the best way to pack it so that the suspension carries well.  It doesn't have sleeping pad straps, so I have to carry my double Ridgerests under the top pocket, though I might move one of them inside for more rigidity. And, unlike my Osprey, the top pocket doesn't double as a daypack, so I have to solve that need.  But I love the approximately 2lb weight of the pack. This will probably be my go-to pack for years for any load less than 35lbs. Between 35 and 60lbs, I'll use my Osprey Aether, though I certainly wouldn't mind using elhombre's Osprey Volt for weights below 40lbs. The Volt looks like a great pack. If I need to carry more than 60lbs, I'll probably buy a Seek Outside Unaweap 4800. OMG, you're thinking...why carry more than 60lbs?????  Well, it happens. Three or four days through waterless territory, or a long packraft, or remote climbing, or all three. Sometimes it just works out that way. The good stuff is occasionally really hard to reach.

*Right now, my ancient REI Teton Fleece Pants are shredded from rock scrapes while climbing and my REI Sahara Shirt is shredded from Catsclaw while desert hiking. I need to replace both of them. And you can bet I'm searching all the alternatives for the lightest good value I can find. I figure I can save a combined 4 ounces on the two, and every little bit helps. Someday I might get my packweight all the way down to the rarefied territory of Mule Ears or DesertRatShorty. Or not.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2017, 04:02:22 PM »
I have a 3 oz. daypack that doubles as a stuff bag that is more than sufficient for any dayhikes or summit attempts that I might consider.

ME, I know everything you do is carefully considered. How do you carry water on your dayhikes or summit attempts away from camp, and how much water do you carry? I often take a gallon for daylong forays (just in case) and I find that the superlight, structureless daypacks just don't provide enough support or comfort to keep me happy.

For short outings I have an old Integral Designs basically a stuff sack with shoulder straps but packed well it carries fine and I usually will carry 2 or 3 liters and I have used it for all day walks too.


I have also used my Kalais ratcheted down for full day hikes and it is perfect but some overkill.
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

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Offline TXbywayofMS

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2017, 06:45:41 PM »
So funny... I just replaced my Kelty Lakota 65 as well. Id go with the Osprey. I like their water bladders as well.

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Offline GaryF

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2017, 07:33:06 PM »
Water loads sure complicate things. My 25oz Zpacks Arc Haul is awesome for lighter loads, but I think with 3 gallons of water it would be a torture machine.

Mule Ears, we were making similar backpack choices up through the late 1990's. My first pack was an Alpenlite external frame. Second pack was a massive Mountainsmith Elite 7000,  which was actually 8000 cubic inches extended. At almost 8lbs, it was a load in itself, but it definitely was the most comfortable pack I ever had.

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Offline DesertRatShorty

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2017, 01:49:47 AM »
I would put in a plug for the Elemental Horizons Kalais.  Matthew has totally revamped the suspension and now rates it at 45# and the pack bag is a bit larger now too in the large at 60L.
I have the older version which was rated at 35# and last trip carried 38# comfortably so with the new changes it really will be nice.  $270 and 2# 9 oz.

I would link again to my piece on searching for the perfect pack which has lots of other packs mentioned too.

ME, thanks for suggesting the Kalais. I have been looking for a pack to replace my GoLite Quest which has served me well but is starting to look pretty ragged and I'm a little concerned about the hipbelt seams ripping. I can't bring myself to buy anything heavier than my Quest (3 lbs) but I couldn't find a pack with a rating at or above 40 lbs. and weighing less than 3 lbs, until you mentioned the Kalais. So I may very well take your recommendation.

It looks like I would have three options: the regular Kalais with an upgrade to Dyneema X side pockets (they allow either the side pockets or the body to be upgraded according to their FAQs), the Kalais XT (X-Pac VX21 composite body with 210D Dyneema X pockets) which is a few ounces heavier and $90 more in price, or place a custom order. In terms of materials, is your pack like the XT? I read your article but may have missed this point. I'm also wondering if the first option (regular Kalais with upgraded pockets) would cut it for cross-country desert travel. Thoughts? Any other packs I should consider? FYI, my base weight for my Quemada trip was 9.5 including the 3 lb. Quest so I have a fairly sparse kit.

Apologies for digressing from the original post.
I roamed and rambled, and I foller'ed my footsteps
   To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
   And all around me a voice was a'sounding
   This land was made for you and me

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Osprey Atmos 65 or Gregory Baltoro 65, or???
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2017, 06:37:38 AM »
I would put in a plug for the Elemental Horizons Kalais.  Matthew has totally revamped the suspension and now rates it at 45# and the pack bag is a bit larger now too in the large at 60L.
I have the older version which was rated at 35# and last trip carried 38# comfortably so with the new changes it really will be nice.  $270 and 2# 9 oz.

I would link again to my piece on searching for the perfect pack which has lots of other packs mentioned too.

ME, thanks for suggesting the Kalais. I have been looking for a pack to replace my GoLite Quest which has served me well but is starting to look pretty ragged and I'm a little concerned about the hipbelt seams ripping. I can't bring myself to buy anything heavier than my Quest (3 lbs) but I couldn't find a pack with a rating at or above 40 lbs. and weighing less than 3 lbs, until you mentioned the Kalais. So I may very well take your recommendation.

It looks like I would have three options: the regular Kalais with an upgrade to Dyneema X side pockets (they allow either the side pockets or the body to be upgraded according to their FAQs), the Kalais XT (X-Pac VX21 composite body with 210D Dyneema X pockets) which is a few ounces heavier and $90 more in price, or place a custom order. In terms of materials, is your pack like the XT? I read your article but may have missed this point. I'm also wondering if the first option (regular Kalais with upgraded pockets) would cut it for cross-country desert travel. Thoughts? Any other packs I should consider? FYI, my base weight for my Quemada trip was 9.5 including the 3 lb. Quest so I have a fairly sparse kit.

Apologies for digressing from the original post.

DRS mine is all dyneema.  The standard pack used to be 70D ripstop and mesh side pockets and you could do various upgrades on pockets and pack body.  He now only offers the standard pack in all 300/400D ripstop that looks pretty durable.  The XT option is X-Pac on the body and dyneema on the pockets and other places.  I think the standard pack would be plenty durable for desert travel, the XT would give you better waterproofness.  Matthew needs to update all of his pages and put more info about the packs on the pack pages too.

This is what Matthew from EH told me about the new suspension and the changes.
Quote
The new suspension is awesome.  It is still based around the original V stay,  but the way in which the stay interfaces with the pack has changed completely.  The stay is now on the outside of the pack,  behind the back pad and connects directly to the hip belt.  The top of the stay fits into a pocket at the top of the pack,  and the load lifters still attach directly to the top of the stay.  As for the shoulder straps,  they are now on a separate yoke assembly that has a couple of sleeves on the back that the stay slides through.  Adjustable torso length is achieved through a series of Velcro panels on the pack body and back pad. 

The weight increase comes from several factors,  primarily the addition of a stiffener in the hip belt, the thicker padding in all the body contact areas and I have upgraded to a more durable 300/400d rip stop nylon throughout the whole pack.  I don't recall your torso size,  but given the 10oz increase you mention I assume it is large.  The other factor in that torso size is wider longer shoulder straps and a good sized increase in volume.  The large torso pack has the volume of the old XL torso size.  I still offer the 70d fabric in a custom build capacity,  it would shave maybe 3 oz.

The only other new packs not mentioned in my piece that have had good reviews and in the same size range are the Hanchor Marl and Gossamer Gear Silverback 50.
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

 


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