Cold weather clothing

[Verduretiger]

I have been trying to reduce my weight that I carry on my packing trips.  I will be in the Chisos and the desert in January this year and I am trying to decide the layers that I will take.  I have always carried a heavy down jacket with me but I am trying to decide if I want to still do that. 

With an underlayer of capilene, polyester shirt and pants, will I be warm enough by using a mid layer of a flleece jacket and an outer layer of a waterproof, windproof shell?  If so, this would save room in the pack and reduce my overall weight.  I am not going to go buy a lighter down jacket at this time.  I already have the fleece jacket and the shell?

Just looking for opinions because I hate to be cold. 

[jeffblaylock]

If you hate to be cold, then I would stick with what works for you in terms of keeping you warm and look elsewhere to cut pack weight. Unless you plan to spend all the hours between evening twilight and morning daylight in your sleeping bag, odds are you will get cold if you skimp on clothing. Key is always layers (and having a dry base layer to change into once you get your camp set up).

As a wise backpacker once told me, "The key to staying warm is, don't get cold."

[Verduretiger]

I appreciate your input.  Since I have always carried  my down jacket (25 years old) I have never attempted to go without it.  I think I will play it safe and bring it again until I get something lighter that I have confidence in. 

[Al]

And remember when the sun goes down it gets cold.  Put that bottom layer on BEFORE the sun goes down.

Al

[Verduretiger]

QS, I will not be taking a tent with me this year.  Instead I will have a silnylon tarp and my trekking poles for shelter which should be sufficient.  My bag is a down 0 degree bag but I have not tried the plastic bag trick so I think I will try that out. 

The last part you mentioned was my true issue.  I have a good pair of long underwear (capeline), polyester shirt and then using a good fleece midlayer and a waterproof jacket will that take the place of the down jacket.  The down jacket is very warm and stuffable but heavy.

[Robert]

One item of interest was the guru from Philmont Scout Camp in NM demonstrating the use of a large, water proof trash bag enclosing the foot of his sleeping bag to keep the feet warm, with dry, insulated sleeping socks.

QS, what is the purpose of this? It seems that the trash bag will act as a vapor barrier and trap the moisture within it and make your sleeping bag get wet. A quick internet search found someone who had done this and discovered the same issue.

In the past, the foot of my sleeping bag kept getting wet in damp weather, and I was blaming it on a leaky tent. Rain was expected that night, so I stuck the foot of my sleeping bag in a large trash bag.
The rain never showed up, and in fact, the night was very dry, with not even any dew on the ground in the morning. Yet the outside of my sleeping bag was wet exactly where the trash bag had covered it up. This showed that moisture from my feet traveled through the sleeping bag and condensed on the inner surface of the trash bag, where it could travel no further. You can get the same effect by tying a baggie around your hand and seeing how clammy it feels in a few minutes.

http://www.kuffelcreek.com/Lightweight%20Backpacking.pdf/LIGHTWEIGHT.pdf

[steelfrog]

QS--you made me feel good; people make fun of the special "sleeping socks" I carry that I sleep with.  They are softer and not funky smelling.  Not sure about the trash bag; a little concerned about moisture and also it gives some warm place for a critter to crawl into and then bite my damn foot.

[Reece]

Yeah, your cover has to breath. I pulled out my emergency foil, space blanket last trip just to try it out. It held some heat in but left me feeling clammy. I'm thinking the trash bag trick is best kept for an emergency. That's all I've ever heard it recommended for. I guess you could stick your feet into a breathable stuff sack if you feel like you need to stick them into something. I like wool socks myself.

[MilesOfTexas]

Yeah, I always remember an Inuit saying that I heard when I was a kid, "When your feet are cold, cover your head."

[Verduretiger]

It is a little bit of overkill on the bag but if it gets too warm I just zip the foot end open.  It really comes in handy with my hammock in the Alabama mountains. 

[RichardM]

Hmmm, looks like we may have had a problem with the last message posted here, which has now disappeared. I can't remember who posted it, but it had a question about Verduretiger's tarp setup.

[trtlrock]

I will not be taking a tent with me this year.  Instead I will have a silnylon tarp and my trekking poles for shelter which should be sufficient.

We also do the tarp & poles routine in BiBe. But I strongly suggest you try not setting it up every night.

We did two14-day winter hikes in BiBe, one in December, one in February...not a drop of precipitation in 28 days.

On the 1st hike we set up the tarp every night for the first week or so. Why? I truly don't know. Probably just wanted the old "well, if it rains, we're covered" peace of mind. Of course, being BiBe, every night the wind direction shifted 90-180 degrees, usually an hour or two after bedding down, though sometimes it would be much later in the night. This almost always required some form of tarp adjustment, which is a royal PITA when you're out of your sleeping bag messin' around with stakes & lines in the frigid, windy hours before dawn. Or you could just try to ignore the tarp flapping & snapping.

Anyway, finally we got "wise," and decided not to set up the tarp unless we thought there was a truly plausible chance of rain that night...

...which is to say that from that point on we literally never even opened up the tarp stuff-sack.

This has saved (cumulatively) many unnecessary hours otherwise spent on tarp erection, dismantling, and adjusting. We also find the freedom in just laying out our bed every night to be exhilarating. And the views are obviously better out in the open. Protection from wind has not been a problem either; there's very little wind-whoosh to deal with flat on the ground anyway.

Of course, I'm not saying don't take a tarp, just don't deploy it.

YMMV, of course.

[trtlrock]

an underlayer of capilene, polyester shirt and pants, will I be warm enough by using a mid layer of a flleece jacket and an outer layer of a waterproof, windproof shell?  Just looking for opinions because I hate to be cold.

This is pretty much what we carry, although we've switched to wool long underwear.

When we get to camp, we immediately change into our sleeping base layer (long johns), and then layer up on top of that during dinner & into winter's early darkness. Our rain jackets serve as the outermost layer (works great as a windbreaker), with a Patagonia MicroPuff jacket underneath. Underneath that might be our hiking shirt from that day, and under that is the long johns. This works well for a while, but, once it gets dark & the aerobic activity has ceased, it's certainly not warm enough to hang out in -- meaning it's time to get in the bag & begin a looooonnnngggg night waiting for the sun.

My wife's a cold sleeper, so she's basically in the full long johns, sometimes augmented by a light fleece shirt. I'm usually in, um, less clothing than that. We both tend to keep & wear nightly a set of 'bed' socks. And we're almost always wearing our lightweight but warm winter hats, and sometimes liner gloves. We also carry balaclavas instead of scarves, and I would strongly recommend them for sleeping gear on the colder nights. Works great under the winter hat while in the bag. Our bags are 20-degree down.

We too, hate to be cold. Your plan will work well, but only if you can deal with 10+ hours in a sleeping bag. It'll take warmer clothing if it's 6am & you're wide awake & you just have to get out of the freakin' bag!

During these two trips we routinely had temps down to the upper teens or low 20s...

[Verduretiger]

After much thought I am going to go with the down jacket.  The most conservative approach. 

[Al]

After much thought I am going to go with the down jacket.  The most conservative approach.

Excellent choice!  You will probably be glad you did.

Al