Fatality records for BBNP ?

[Daryl]

Does the NPS (or anyone else) publish fatality records for BBNP?

I always thought the vast majority of deaths in BBNP resulted from hiking accidents or exposure.  However the official BBNP website says, "Most visitor injuries and accidental deaths in Big Bend result from car accidents."  http://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/yoursafety.htm

Of course, they are lumping injuries and deaths together and I tend to view death as a little more serious than injuries.  They are also limiting that quote to "accidental", so I assume they are filtering out some non-accidental deaths.

[Daryl]

Just to clarify...

In my opinion, BBNP is safer than most urban settings.  Especially if you use some common sense and carry plenty of water.

My only reason to bring up this topic was that it came up in another forum and I figured my BiBe fanatic friends would have better info than my snake nut friends.

[TheWildWestGuy]

I know they publish Press Releases on the NPS Site but I don't think there is an online historical database.  Having been to the Park over a couple of decades I believe it is accurate that most deaths (~70%) are vehicle related (cars, trucks, motorcycles).    The motorcycle % is probably much higher than in most other locales because I can recall both offroad and onroad fatalities within the last few years.  Heatstroke, dehydration, and falls (or some combinations of the above) account for the other 30%.  As far as I know there have been some injuries related to cougars and rattlesnakes but no fatalities, at least not in the last 25 years or so.  I always say the drive is the most dangerous part of the trip... TWWG

[SHANEA]

I suppose that NPS probably has internal statistics on this :?:   I suppose you could either (1) ask the public affairs for this information or (2) file an FOIA.

[presidio]

I suppose that NPS probably has internal statistics on this :?:   I suppose you could either (1) ask the public affairs for this information or (2) file an FOIA.

Try '1' first, then '2' if necessary. The parks don't seem to eager to share this kind of info. It's disturbing to the average tourist; however, there's nothing secret about this; it's the same as how many acres they have...a statistic.

[SHANEA]

Try '1' first, then '2' if necessary. The parks don't seem to eager to share this kind of info. It's disturbing to the average tourist; however, there's nothing secret about this; it's the same as how many acres they have...a statistic.

Definately.  FOIA, Freedom of Information Acts, requests are "strange birds" to file and have to be worded specifically, etc.  They are a real pain.  I'd say ask Chuck Hansen of Swords of Armageddon fame about how to file FOIA's, but unfortunately he has passed on.    

There is a book out there, I think I referenced it on BBC somewhere, that chronicles deaths in National Parks.

File an FOIA Request and Meet the FBI
Most Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) horror stories involve arbitrary classification, erratic declassification, and, of course, delays of Soviet proportions. But it is hard to match the experience of Chuck Hansen, who won a free FBI investigation because of his research efforts.

Mr. Hansen, an independent historian, prolific FOIA requester, and author of U.S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret History (Aerofax, Inc., 1988), last year requested declassification review under the FOIA of two old nuclear weapons histories from the Defense Nuclear Agency (DNA).

In order to save time and reduce processing costs, Mr. Hansen specified exactly which pages of the documents he wanted to be reviewed. Like any footnote fetishist, he was merely pursuing references that he had found in a previously declassified document. But DNA, alarmed by Hansen's specific identification of page numbers, somehow assumed that he already had unauthorized access to the classified documents and promptly alerted the FBI.

Last summer, the FBI swung into action, questioning Hansen and his attorney about how he knew which page numbers he wanted.

Hansen dashed off an angry letter to DNA calling their behavior "reprehensible and extremely offensive" and asked for an apology. Colonel Robert P. Summers of DNA wrote back to inform him that "If any apology is in order, it would be from you...."

Eventually, everyone apologized to everyone else. Hansen told S&GB that DNA officials have resumed "their previous open and professional demeanor" and they "are still slowly processing my many outstanding requests."

A bewildered FBI agent explained that as a rule "the FBI does not investigate citizens just because they file requests under the Freedom of Information Act." (San Jose Mercury News, 8/15/93, p.1BF).

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bulletin/sec32.html

[Daryl]

Thanks guys.  For now, I'm good with accepting TWWG estimates (not what I expected but in keeping with comments from others).  The question about this on that other forum seems to have lost momentum and I'm not "dying" to have concrete answers.

If it comes up again, I probably take Shane and Presidio's advice and just ask public affairs.  I'm currently following up on an unrelated FOI request with the state and have to agree that the whole process is a pain in the rear.  Also, FOI requests tend to be interpreted as adversarial and I certainly don't need that..

[SHANEA]

Also, FOI requests tend to be interpreted as adversarial and I certainly don't need that..

I've never understood that.  I worked with a public affairs person for the Comptrollers office in Austin and he was doing FOI's all the time.  It was his job.  All an FOI is - is a request for information.  It should not be adversarial in the first place as the information is typically "public" information paid for by the citizens in the first place.  Thankfully, since Al Gore invented the Internet,  :lol: it is a lot easier to access a wide variety of public information - which does drive some people nuts.

[okiehiker]

Accidental deaths are kept separately for a number of reasons.  

Heart attack is the number one killer in the NPS, but most of those would have happened anyway.  Murders are not accidental, but need to be tracked separately for obvious reasons.

If I were guessing, I would think that the number of deaths annually in BIBE is quite low (single digits) and that heart attack is #1, and car accidents #2, unless there is some raod hazard that can be addressed, there is little the park service can do about those numbers.  

Exposure/hypothermia/dehydration and deaths from falls are probably the two outdoor hazards that preparation could help prevent, so these are the things that the park service focuses on.

Most BIBE deaths related to the terrain/elements make major headlines in this part of the country and are pretty rare, (maybe an average of one or so per year.)  A statistical sample of one is too small to evaluate in a meaningful way.

If you are really interested in this sort of analysis, the 2001 book, "Over the Edge, Death in Grand Canyon" is probably the best.  They analyze every known traumatic death below the rim in history.  There are more than 600 of them.  Their major categories are: Falls, Environmental Deaths, Flash Flood, Colorado River, Airplane (two mid-air crashes account for 153 deaths), Freak errors and accidents (rock falls, lightning, mule falling on you, blown up while trailbuilding, base jumping, cliff diving... 24 total bizarre incidents) Suicide (47), Murder (25)

Some of these are hard to know for sure... was it murder, suicide, accident? Often we do not know.  But these guys did a thorough job and it makes an interesting book.

[SHANEA]

:?:

Due to heat/cold? :?:

[okiehiker]

environmental deaths