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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2007, 11:02:40 PM »
Ok, I haven't seen any comments yet on battery life. That's one of the first things I look for in a unit (I currently have an eTrex Legend). And I don't mean battery life in the specs; I mean what you guys are actually getting out there in the field.

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SHANEA

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« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2007, 11:22:40 PM »
No bueno.  I "burn" lithiums in mine and it "does burn them".  Couldn't even tell you the length of time.  Never thought about it.  I've got the unit so that's all that matters.  I've also got rechargable batteries in the truck that I sometimes use, depending on if it's a day trip or a backpack, etc.  12volt rechargable setup.  I use the cig. lighter attachment when on the road.  I was so dissatified with my Etrex Vista that anything had to be better.  The reception, screen, and joystick on the Etrex Vista SUCKED.   Hands down, the 60 series is a Brazillion times better.  (I couldn't even tell you what the battery life on my Vista was - gave it away as a Christmas gift).

Of course, there is so much to consider with battery life - are you using the back lighted screen, do you have the electronic compass turned on, etc.  Lots of variables.

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Offline WL2

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2007, 06:20:57 AM »
I have been using NIMH batteries in my GPS units for several years and they work well.  You can get close to 20 hours out of a freshlly charged set of 2100 mah batteries in a 60CS. ( limited light and compas use)  They will self discharge over time, but the newest low self discharge nimh batteries hold a charge very well.  If you buy anything over 2300 mah you can expect them to completely self discharge in one to two weeks.  So I would suggest avoiding them.  I am currently testing some of the low self discharge batteries.  Only had them a little over a month but so far they hold a significant percent of their capacity for over a month.  Will publish the results when the test is complete.

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BigBendHiker

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2007, 11:05:23 AM »
Quote from: "WL2"
I have been using NIMH batteries in my GPS units for several years and they work well.  You can get close to 20 hours out of a freshlly charged set of 2100 mah batteries in a 60CS. ( limited light and compas use)  They will self discharge over time, but the newest low self discharge nimh batteries hold a charge very well.  If you buy anything over 2300 mah you can expect them to completely self discharge in one to two weeks.  So I would suggest avoiding them.  I am currently testing some of the low self discharge batteries.  Only had them a little over a month but so far they hold a significant percent of their capacity for over a month.  Will publish the results when the test is complete.


Thanks, WL2.  I use NIMH batteries here as well for both my GPS and digital camera.  I do carry two Lithium as backup just in case.  

Agree...the self-discharge rate seems high on the higher capacity batteries.  I have found the Sanyo AA 2700 mah seem to have a low self-discharge (at least in the case of the second set I procured).  The first set had terrible self-discharge (< 2 weeks).  Because of that, and thinking there was a problem, I got a replacement set under their warranty.   I also got a different charger (returned the other one for credit since it had one of those 100% satisfaction guarantee warranties) and went with one of the Maha smart chargers.  My experience with that second set of Sanyo's has been great.  I have the Sanyo 2700 mah in my digital camera since early January and they have not required recharging.  Similar experience with those in my 60CSX GPS.  My experience with Everready NiMH is that they have a very high self-discharge so I don't use them anymore at all.

You mentioned testing the low self-discharge ones.  Is that the Sanyo Eneloop or the Maha Powerex 2700?  Looking forward to the results of your test.  I have my eye on those low self-discharge but have not yet sprung for them.  They say that they will hold 85% of their charger after 12 months.  If they get that kind of performance that will revolutionize the NiMH battery market.

Thanks,
BBH

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Offline WL2

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2007, 11:46:07 AM »
I also use the MAHA chargers.  I am testing the Sanyo eneloop 2000 mah and the Rayovac Hybrid 2100 mah.  It takes a long time to test the long term discharge rates. :?  But, so far they look good.

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BigBendHiker

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2007, 01:08:25 PM »
Quote from: "WL2"
I also use the MAHA chargers.  


I am really pleased with my Maha charger.  I have the MH-C401FS and it seems to work great.  The other one I used just did not work well; fortunately, they had the 100% satisfaction guarantee and did gladly and easily refund my purchase.  You probably already have come across them, but I have found Thomas Distributing is a good source for chargers and batteries.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm


BBH

Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2007, 02:57:13 PM »
Quote
Does the 1Gig card work ok on yours? Did you get the card from Garmin or just order one off Ebay or other source?


Big Bend Hiker,

I use a ScanDisk, 1GB, Micro SD.

I recall from some research that there is one version of this card that does NOT work with the GPS60CSx.  I think that the one that does NOT work with the GPS60CSx is the "ultra" version.  I gleaned this information off of a GSP forum somewhere.  I recall reading that some users were unable to get their SD card to function, and it turned our that the problem was the type of card.

I bought the card I use at Best Buy.

Please let me know if you have further questions.
"No, that did not happen to me.  You have me confused with someone else."

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BigBendHiker

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2007, 05:14:11 PM »
Quote from: "Boot Canyon 1 Cougar"
I use a ScanDisk, 1GB, Micro SD.

I recall from some research that there is one version of this card that does NOT work with the GPS60CSx.  I think that the one that does NOT work with the GPS60CSx is the "ultra" version.  I gleaned this information off of a GSP forum somewhere.  I recall reading that some users were unable to get their SD card to function, and it turned our that the problem was the type of card.

I bought the card I use at Best Buy.

Please let me know if you have further questions.


Thanks.  This is good information.


BBH

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Offline homerboy2u

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2007, 06:13:37 PM »
I wrote BBH to get his input, in a more in depth way regarding an opinion towards the 2 units in question, please check my initial post.

  I asked him the following and got this reply. This is being posted with his permission:

homerboy2u2 wrote:
I have been reading and reading all about your opinions for these GPS?s..trekking is good, so is fishing and trail riding. But both of them are seriously in my decison corner , as we speak.

It is tough to make a decision, since i like both of them, if i buy them i am dead with the wife, and it would mean a very hard knock on my head if were to make the wrong decision which one to buy, and look back at the other one in the shelf...going in my my mind: " I told you so ".

Do you know what i mean. SAme manufacturer, different model, a lot of diffrence in price range, and one good as the other, diffrent features.

Need Help, good buddy.

Homero Jimenez

 His answer:

Hi Homero!
You sound like me. I will agonize and agonize over decisions on these things. But you are probably like me -- once purchased, I keep things for a long, long time, so the decision must be right (or as right as it can be) from the get go. We must be perfectionists! You and I have got to meet someday!

What will be your primary use on the GPS? Once the primary use is known, I think it may narrow the choice. The difficulty is that each of these (60CSx and 376C) are niche devices.

376C:
There are some features on the 376C that are well suited for marine and lake use: XM radio, larger display, and sonar capability. It is truly designed for boating and can extend into city navigation (which the 60CSX can do as well, although the voice nav on the 376C is very nice). Given it's size, however, it would be more bulky and troublesome for hiking use, I think. Plus, it only has a built-in rechargeable battery system meaning that you could not just carry some spare AA batteries for use when the batteries run out.

Now, when you look at the 60CSx, it has the smaller size which makes it suited for hiking, but also has a smaller display that can make it a bit more difficult for city nav. It does not seem to have as much capability for marine as the 376C. For hiking, it is the ideal GPS, however.

Here is an idea - what is your email? I know we do not want to get too technical here, but I can send you an excel file with a place to record the plus/delta between each one and from there, have a relative comparison between the two. I think it may help and I am glad to put the file together (of course, you will need to add your thoughts on the relative scoring).

  I wrote him back saying that i wanted to get WL2 side of the matter as well, then wrote later that it would be a better idea if i put the discussion on the thread to get more input/say...So, Gurus. Please step forward and let us hear your thoughts.

Homero
Stay thirsty, my friends.

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Offline presidio

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2007, 07:20:10 PM »
Quote from: "homerboy2u2"
So, Gurus. Please step forward and let us hear your thoughts,

Homero


Homero, I am going to point you in an entirely different direction, but still with Garmin.

The 60C has an 18 hour battery life, the 376C apparently has a max battery life of 15 hours on the rechargeable LI cell...which puts you out of commission on even an overnight trip away from a power source. While these have removeable memory cards, I don't consider those all that great an advantage.

The 60C is slightly cheaper than my suggestion (I'm getting to it, below), and the 376C is more than twice as expensive. You can do a lot of things with the extra $500+ the 376C will cost....UNLESS you have a need/reason to get the fairly specific capabilities of the marine unit. Yes, it has a larger screen, but that too is not a compelling reason to drop an extra $500 on it.

Okay, what I recommend you look at/get is the Garmin GPSMap76C (if you can still find one..as it has been replaced by the 76Cx with removeable memory card). It has the same screen size of the 60c (not 60Cx), costs about $50 more, and has a 115mb internal, non-removeable memory. 115mb is a LOT of memory in a GPS. You can put a couple of state's worth of 100k topo maps in that space. While you might be able to drop a 1gb card in the other two units, are you realistically going to need all that map capability in a continuous mode? Meaning, you can always swap map data in and out of the 76C. I have yet to need a data swap since I have my usual haunts installed, but I have the entire US in 100k topos available. Same goes for any city data you might want to enter.

The new 76Cx has performance specs similar to the 60Cx...18 hour battery life, etc., and the price is the same. Since the 76Cx is now out, you might even be able to find the 76C at a discount, making it even more attractive.

76C battery life at 30 hours is almost double the 60C and more than double, to perhaps as much as 7x  the 376C.

I have had this unit for a couple of years and it is very capable and does everything I need it to do. I recommend avoiding the sensor models (CSx) with all the extra doodads like thermometers, compasses, barometers and such. Are those things handy? Sure, maybe. Are they needed in a handheld GPS? Not in my opinion. It's kind of like getting a cell phone that has a zillion features that just eat up your battery and are used relatively little.

In my opinion, the 76C is the perfect GPS for hiking and road navigation (without getting a dedicated car unit). You will be very happy with it, and you wife will simply adore you when you use the $500 you just saved and take her somewhere special. Work in that mode and she'll let you get anything you want. :D  :D How can you go wrong?

BTW, if you go to the Garmin site they have a 'compare' feature within model lines. You can't compare the 376 to the 76 but you can compare hiking to hiking, and marine to marine, for example.
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Offline WL2

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2007, 08:27:17 PM »
I have been  following Homero’s questions without replying as I really do not have a good answer.  As has been pointed out these two GPS units are very different.  They are so different that making comparisons is really difficult, and I do not feel comfortable making a suggestion.  However, never let be said I do not have an opinion so here are some thoughts.  Just remember to follow you own wishes and take our advise with care.

 If you intend to mount it in your truck and then transfer it to a boat and very seldom hike away from the truck then the 376C would seem the way to go.  As you have noted the XM feature has a hefty monthly charge.  Well worth it on the high seas where weather information is critical, but less so on the road.  In a fixed mount situation the bigger screen of the 376C is a real advantage.  In a boat the depth sounder module may be important to you.  It is probably more durable as it is designed to mount in a boat with tougher environmental conditions.

If you will be using it primarily in the truck and also when hiking and only occasionally in the boat then the 60Cx might be the way.  This is primarily because it is a lot less expensive, a lot lighter and smaller, and better power options when away from a power source.  However, the smaller screen is an issue you should consider.  I do not find it a problem, but your personal preference should be considered.

The choice between the 76 and the 60 is really one of form factor.  Yes the 76 is a marine unit, it floats, but for me the 60 works better in my hand.  For that reason I prefer the 60, but both are great units.  I would point out that the ‘x’ models have the SiRFstarIII™ chip set and have some advantages over the older 76C and 60C models.  In fact the 60C has been discontinued.  I do prefer the 60CSx with the extra sensors.  However, it is a personal preference and if you wish the non-sensor model that is the way you should go.   Even if I did not want the extra memory capacity of the removable cards, I would choose the ‘x’ model to get the better GPS engine.  However, I want all the memory capacity I can get, so I like the removable cards.  Again a personal preference, I am a map and track data junkie.

Hope this has been of some help and not added more confusion to the issue.

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Offline randell

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2007, 09:49:38 PM »
Quote from: "BigBendHiker"
Quote from: "WL2"
I also use the MAHA chargers.  


I am really pleased with my Maha charger.  I have the MH-C401FS and it seems to work great.  The other one I used just did not work well; fortunately, they had the 100% satisfaction guarantee and did gladly and easily refund my purchase.  You probably already have come across them, but I have found Thomas Distributing is a good source for chargers and batteries.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm


BBH


Which one do you have and why is it better than the, say, Energizer charger that came with four batteries?
There's nothing like a good quest to get you intimate with a place. - Tom Clynes

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Offline WL2

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2007, 09:59:26 PM »
A better charger will do the least damage to the batttery and give a more complete charge.  More common consumer types will work, but batteries may not last as long or get as complete a charge.  Short answer, but I am not qualified to give a more detailed answer.

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Offline homerboy2u

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2007, 10:12:18 PM »
Yes it does :!:  Thank you all. From the personal viewpoints of each one, there are several issues to take in mind: No Need to mention them, they are all here.

  But bottom line, is that they are both good, they are very reliable and each has its own specific purpose. It is all in the matter of thinking what will be my main use, and decide from there. I need to see them ,  first hand again.
Stay thirsty, my friends.

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BigBendHiker

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Garmin GPSMAP 60Csx - initial thoughts
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2007, 06:22:09 AM »
Quote from: "randell"
Quote from: "BigBendHiker"
Quote from: "WL2"
I also use the MAHA chargers.  


I am really pleased with my Maha charger.  I have the MH-C401FS and it seems to work great.  The other one I used just did not work well; fortunately, they had the 100% satisfaction guarantee and did gladly and easily refund my purchase.  You probably already have come across them, but I have found Thomas Distributing is a good source for chargers and batteries.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm


BBH


Which one do you have and why is it better than the, say, Energizer charger that came with four batteries?


Hi Randell!
I have the MAHA MH-C401FS and obtained it from Thomas Distributing. It is a "smart" charger which controls the rate at which the batteries charge.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mhc401fs.htm

From what I have read and understand, NiMH batteries are very sensitive to the method by which they are recharged.  Traditional chargers, such as the Energizer and others, apply a fixed charging current for a fixed amount of time.  Usually, these are designed to rapid charge the battery in 15 minutes or maybe a couple of hours.  At that high of a charging rate, the current is high and the batteries can get very warm to the touch.  This combination of heat and high charging rate shortens battery life and reduces their ability to take a full charge.   This also causes chemical changes in the batteries which will cause them to develop something similar to "memory" as seen with NiCads.  A smart charge varies the charging current and monitors battery voltage during the charge so that even when rapid charged, the batteries stay cool (to extend life) and accept a much higher charge.

The MAHA I have used has given me great battery life on the NiMHs that I use.  I cannot say that for the two other brandds that I tried, neither of which were smart chargers.  The other thing I have noticed -- the self discharge is low, so I can put them in my camera, leave that camera in the drawer and pick it up a few weeks later (or maybe even longer) and I am still good to do.  

Hope this helps.  

BBH

 


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