Friends of Big Bend National Park
Big Bend Conservancy

Over-estimating your experience or under-estimating the terrain in a place like Big Bend can result in serious injury or death. Use the information and advice found here wisely. Climb/Hike/Camp/Drive at your own risk.

+-Calendar for sale

 2019 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!


ground fires in the desert

  • 29 Replies
  • 13337 Views
*

Offline Al

  • Dog Face Moth
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4102
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2006, 07:32:09 PM »
If one wishes to strictly apply this rule use of a stove or other device that burns pellets or any solid fuel other than charcoal anywhere in the park is a violation of park rules.

Personally I think such an interpretation is absurd.

Al

*

Offline Al

  • Dog Face Moth
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4102
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2006, 08:49:14 PM »
This is real nice to have when it gets real cold, particularly when the wind is blowing.  It is a little noisy though.  It's a two burner infrared heater that mounts with one bolt onto a 20 lb propane tank.  Perfect for truck camping in the cold. I've had it run for more 4 evenings on one tank.

The only debate should be if one, such as myself, who uses one is a woosy.

http://groups.msn.com/bigbendphotos/telephonecanyon.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=416

Al

*

Offline bdann

  • Creosote
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1863
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2006, 08:53:16 PM »
Quote from: "Al"
If one wishes to strictly apply this rule use of a stove or other device that burns pellets or any solid fuel other than charcoal anywhere in the park is a violation of park rules.

Personally I think such an interpretation is absurd.

Al


you're right, but there's a big difference between boiling water over an esbit stove and burning charcoal and a duraflame in a turkey pan out in a zone camping area.  I'm not implying you are being unsafe,  my point is interpreting the rule so that what you are doing is not a violation, in my book, is absurd.

I burned a duraflame in a bbq grill at the fresno roadside campsite once, I don't know if I was breaking any rules or not, but it sure felt like it.  I just knew that at any minute either a ranger was gonna roll up and give me a ticket or an ember would fly unnoticed off in the brush and burn the place down.  I won't be doing it again.
WATER, It does a body good.

*

Offline okiehiker

  • Black Bear
  • *
  • 711
  • cryptantha crassipses
If you feel guilty...
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2006, 09:04:55 PM »
That was my main original point.  If what you are doing carries a risk of setting a fire, scarring the land, wasting resources,  (I often worry about even my MSR or Svea stove) then whether there is an official rule against it or not, you should not be doing it.  

Great resources are available at:

http://www.lnt.org/
Funny... I have a story about that...

*

Offline Al

  • Dog Face Moth
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4102
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2006, 09:24:58 PM »
Quote from: "bdann"
Quote from: "Al"
If one wishes to strictly apply this rule use of a stove or other device that burns pellets or any solid fuel other than charcoal anywhere in the park is a violation of park rules.

Personally I think such an interpretation is absurd.

Al


you're right, but there's a big difference between boiling water over an esbit stove and burning charcoal and a duraflame in a turkey pan out in a zone camping area.  I'm not implying you are being unsafe,  my point is interpreting the rule so that what you are doing is not a violation, in my book, is absurd.

I burned a duraflame in a bbq grill at the fresno roadside campsite once, I don't know if I was breaking any rules or not, but it sure felt like it.  I just knew that at any minute either a ranger was gonna roll up and give me a ticket or an ember would fly unnoticed off in the brush and burn the place down.  I won't be doing it again.


Goodness, bdann, I didn't mean to upset you.  I agree with you that reason should be used in applying the rules and I have never had a ranger cite me for violating any rule or my permit. I have found the rangers to be experienced, knowledgable and pragmatic, with few exceptions.  

I've been going to Big Bend almost every year since 1971.  Rules do change and I DO read my permit every time I get one.  I have done as described when zone camping although it has been a few years.  I have not recommended doing so on this thread, please read what I wrote carefully as it was qualified, and I do recommend following the rules.  To the extent y'all want to restrict yourself more than is required, for whatever reason, that's OK with me, too.

I don't know if burning duralog, which I use as a starter and for new charcoal added to the fire, was legal at fresno.  I DO KNOW it was in accordance with my permit at every primitive campsite I've camp at.  There are no sparks unless the charcoal pops and we have never had anything approaching a problem.

Al

*

Offline bdann

  • Creosote
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1863
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2006, 09:48:42 PM »
No one is upset  8)
WATER, It does a body good.

*

Offline Al

  • Dog Face Moth
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4102
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2006, 09:49:24 PM »
Thank you.  

These discussions are good.  They help folks understand de rules.

Al

*

SHANEA

  • Guest
Try
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2006, 09:11:25 AM »
Try one of these for a safe fire.

Kozy Times Portable Fireplace
http://tinyurl.com/y8gect

http://www.kozytimes.com/

Also, Coleman makes something like this - much heavier.  But, it's been discontinued.  You might be able to find it somewhere on the net.

*

Offline Al

  • Dog Face Moth
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4102
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2006, 06:30:49 PM »
Nice, a bit pricy but nice.

Al

*

Offline BIBEARCH

  • Coyote
  • *
  • 218
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2006, 01:18:41 PM »
If you want the legal definitions, always go the park's web site.

http://www.nps.gov/bibe/parkmgmt/compendium.htm

The Superintendent's Compendium spells out what is and what is not allowed.

Tom
The opinion expressed above is my own and not that of the National Park Service or the Federal government.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people . . . people hey, that's us!"? - Swami Beyondananda

*

SHANEA

  • Guest
A & C?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2006, 01:49:18 PM »
Quote from: "BIBEARCH"
The Superintendent's Compendium spells out what is and what is not allowed.

Tom


Appendix A (Omitted from online edition)
Appendix C (Omitted from online edition)

Must be like the famous missing sections from an insurance manual from one of John Grishims novels, can't remember which book - about a young lawyer doing an insurance case in which they denied coverage and there were two books sections missing - "deny all claims".

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3507
Re: A & C?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2006, 03:38:11 PM »
Quote from: "SHANEA"

Appendix A (Omitted from online edition)
Appendix C (Omitted from online edition)


It's a secret. That way you won't know what you're violating until you are taken to task for whatever the it is you are not obeying.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline BIBE Webmaster

  • Coyote
  • *
  • 82
    • http://www.nps.gov/bibe/
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2006, 03:56:27 PM »
If you'll actually read the compendium document, you'll see in the table of contents that those appendices pertain to park employees/residents, and do not relate to park visitors in any way.

E
Eric Leonard, Park Ranger
Big Bend National Park / Rio Grande Wild & Scenic River
http://www.nps.gov/bibe/
http://www.nps.gov/rigr/

(Big Bend Park Ranger 2004-2008)

*

Offline Al

  • Dog Face Moth
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4102
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2006, 04:29:34 PM »
Quote from: "BIBEARCH"
If you want the legal definitions, always go the park's web site.

http://www.nps.gov/bibe/parkmgmt/compendium.htm

The Superintendent's Compendium spells out what is and what is not allowed.

Tom


Thanks!

Al

*

SHANEA

  • Guest
ground fires in the desert
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2006, 04:54:57 PM »
Quote from: "BIBE Webmaster"
If you'll actually read the compendium document,
E


Oh, come on, a conspiracy is much more fun :!:   I know, the two missing sections relate to homeland security in the park and rounding up suspected terrorists and what to do when you encounter aliens, those from not around here, those from outer space...  :lol:

 


©COPYRIGHT NOTICE

All photographs and content posted by members are to be considered copyrighted by their respective owners and may not be used for any purposes, commercial or otherwise, without permission.

+-Calendar For Sale

 2019 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!

Powered by EzPortal

Facebook Comments