Big Bend Chat

Big Bend National Park Q&A => Hiking the Desert => Topic started by: badknees on October 11, 2008, 01:20:14 PM

Title: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: badknees on October 11, 2008, 01:20:14 PM
Anybody ever cross the blue section on the map below? I have been upstream as far as the spring maked by the red "X", and Robert has posted a trip report where he hiked south from the Dodson on the Green route.

Looks like crossing over is shorter.

(http://www.mirrormagic.com/CasaGrande/Smoky question.jpg) (http://www.mirrormagic.com/CasaGrande/Smoky question.jpg)
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: TheWildWestGuy on October 13, 2008, 07:19:43 AM
I have taken the blue route and it's fairly easy arroyo walking.  The junction of the two routes is marked with a couple rock cairns and 3 old strands of barbed wire still hanging across the arroyo after 70 years.  The spring marked on the topo South of the junction of the two routes is (I believe) an unnamed spring (post modified to correct factual mistakes and references).  This bypass-route is considerably shorter than the Smokey Creek Trail which winds around Sugarloaf and into another major valley to the East.  The bypass route has a bit of rockhopping and scrambling and one ~5-6' pouroff that you will have to get up and over.  There are a lot of springs in this area including one's not marked on the map so you should find reliable water in several places along this route... TWWG
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: mule ears on October 13, 2008, 08:09:12 AM
The spring marked on the topo South of the junction of the two routes is (I believe) called Mesa Bonita Spring according to former BBNP ranger Eric L. 

TWWG Mesa Bonita spring is described in this thread http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/hiking-the-desert/upper-smokey-creek-t2668.0.html (http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/hiking-the-desert/upper-smokey-creek-t2668.0.html) by BIBEarch as the one just east of Goat Mountain

Quote
Quote from: "mule ears"
Has anyone ever walked the drainage that runs just east of Goat Mountain?  It runs into Smoky Creek just north of the junction with the Mule Ears trail and looks like an interesting possible route to the Wilson ranch at Blue Creek.  The crux looks to be the tight area just west of points 4358 and 3875 were a spring is marked.  I am thinking of using it as connector from Mule Ears spring to Blue Creek canyon this winter.


Quote
Quote from: Bibearch
Most of the passes through this part of the country were routes taken by cowboys and goat herders. They stayed up on the slopes above the canyon floor though. This route has a nice set of ledges at Mesa Bonita Spring (marked "Spring" on the map) that you will need to skirt around. There's another spring (Goat Mountain Spring) upstream of Mesa Bonita. Some of it's a little brushy & thorny but generally hikeable.

 
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 30, 2009, 02:29:57 PM
I thought I would update this thread since we were out there last week and hiked the blue portion of the trail. There is also another thread where I asked the same question however Badknees map does a much better job of explaining the route in question.
http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/hiking-the-desert/upper-smokey-creek-t2668.0.html (http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/hiking-the-desert/upper-smokey-creek-t2668.0.html)
The blue section of the trail begins just after the Smoky Creek trail leaves Smoky Creek and heads east into the unnamed watershed that drains the east side of Sugarloaf Mtn. Just before this point the trail comes to a pouroff where the trail exits the wash on the right (west) side. There are cairns marking the spot where you exit but the climb out of the wash isn't easily recognizable as a trail. Once out of the wash there are cairns marking the trail as it runs parallel above the wash. When you begin the climb back down into the wash past the pouroff you can see the trail on the opposite side of the wash where it climbs out again to go back to the east. But to take the blue portion you stay in the wash.

Once back in the wash it is easy walking down to the junction with the green route as TWWG mentions. The wash is open and relatively flat. There was no water until almost to the junction. Hiking down to the end of the section you'll see the small peak that stands above the junction of the two arms of Smoky Creek. Once at the junction there was a good flow of water coming down the western arm and the barbed wire is a hundred yards upstream.

At this point we were on familiar ground as we had been on this section last year (green section). The water flows a good ways downstream and there are several small pouroffs that must be negotiated. There is at least one where you have to climb\slide down but I kept my pack on. It would probably be harder going upstream.

The last spring is about 1/3 mile from where the trail re-enters the wash from the east (north east side of Sugarloaf) and just upstream from some red rock formations (like Blue Creek). It is where there is a boulder in the middle of the wash and the water comes out from behind it on the downstream side and disappears into the sand.

Past the spring the wash opens up and you can see Sugarloaf in front of you. Then look for the cairns where the trail reenters the wash.

Last year we took the green route and this time we took the blue. The pouroff on the upper portion of green section did not have the advantage of a trail and required a higher climb and descent. It looked like there might have been another way around it on the left but we didn't investigate it.
 
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: mule ears on January 30, 2009, 05:12:11 PM
I thought I would update this thread since we were out there last week and hiked the blue portion of the trail.

I am ready to pull the maps out and make some popcorn Robert. Can't wait to hear about where you went this time.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 30, 2009, 05:55:32 PM
Well, I'm not sure I can post a trip report as eloquent as some of the others but I'll try to get something out this weekend.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: badknees on January 30, 2009, 09:10:57 PM
Well, I'm not sure I can post a trip report as eloquent as some of the others but I'll try to get something out this weekend.

Thanks for the info. I never tire of that area!
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Burn Ban on January 30, 2009, 09:36:36 PM
Well, I'm not sure I can post a trip report as eloquent as some of the others but I'll try to get something out this weekend.

 i believe eloquence and "waxing poetic and rhapsodic" is extremely over-rated as a form of trip reporting. i want to know where you went and what you saw. if it brought you "closer to the universe" or whatever...congratu lations.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 31, 2009, 09:50:24 AM
Quote
if it brought you "closer to the universe" or whatever...congratu lations.

I guess you don't want to hear about my peyote visions either. Rats! Actually I did have a few sips of tequila but no visions.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Burn Ban on January 31, 2009, 08:45:44 PM
Quote
if it brought you "closer to the universe" or whatever...congratu lations.

I guess you don't want to hear about my peyote visions either. Rats! Actually I did have a few sips of tequila but no visions.

no, no! i am always ready for a good peyote story.  i hear fermented sotol will give you a good time, too.

anyone?
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on December 15, 2009, 03:07:19 PM
sorry to bump an old thread, but does anyone have this map saved? the descriptions sounds spot on but it's hard to imagine without the color coded lines amrking the routes  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: jeffblaylock on December 15, 2009, 06:14:00 PM
Viper, all I have is some tracks from last November's "Smoky Creek ramble" -- may or may not help you. We cut over cross-country before the green trail ended. Had we gone a bit further, we would have found a much easier path back to the actual Smoky Creek Trail.



Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: jeffblaylock on December 15, 2009, 06:17:11 PM
Map of the track through relevant area:

Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on December 15, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
Quote
we would have found a much easier path back to the actual Smoky Creek Trail

The Smoky Creek trail rejoins the wash at the very bottom of the map just southeast of the 4065 point. So if you stay in the wash past this point you are actually back on the trail headed to Mule Ears.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: badknees on December 16, 2009, 12:44:57 AM
Attached is a map of the official Smoky Creek trail in the area. Let me know if you wanted something different
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on December 16, 2009, 08:22:54 PM
awesome, thanks for the update badknees. the route you highlighted in the first post is exactly what i was wondering about.

Jeff, the 40-50' pouroff from your trip report thread was in between the 2 springs along your green route on smokey creek itself? just wondering about getting a group of 10 or so people to the springs below that pouroff  :eusa_whistle:
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: badknees on December 16, 2009, 10:00:01 PM
There is a big pouroff at the "w", where you need to climb out of the Smoky Creek wash and pass over to re-enter the wash at "x". Follow downstream to the very sharp bend at "y" and exit the wash to crossover to the main drainage again. There should be a metal stake with a sign on it marking the exit from the wash. Once you re-enter the wash, there is one more pouroff (marked 20' on the previous post), - the lone tree pouroff- because it has a lone cottonwood at its base. Water can sometimes be found at multiple points along this route and also between the lone tree pouroff and the exit from the black rock canyon
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: jeffblaylock on December 16, 2009, 10:42:17 PM
awesome, thanks for the update badknees. the route you highlighted in the first post is exactly what i was wondering about.

Jeff, the 40-50' pouroff from your trip report thread was in between the 2 springs along your green route on smokey creek itself? just wondering about getting a group of 10 or so people to the springs below that pouroff  :eusa_whistle:

Viper, the big pour-off is along the main trail, in the vicinity of the spring just below and left of the word "BEND" on the topo map I attached a few posts back. Just before the pour-off (heading southwest), there is a social path leading up and to the right which goes over the steep hump on the north side of the pour-off. From the top, it's fairly easy to see where you need to go. It is steep, so take it slow -- trekking poles definitely help. There was some thick brush at the bottom that is probably avoidable, but we just slogged through it.

Just beyond the base of the pour-off, the Smoky Creek TRAIL exits the wash to the left (east). We declined to take this exit, mistaking it for the end of an "official" route around the pour-off. Because we ignored the trail leaving the wash, we followed the main branch of Smoky Creek itself downstream until realizing we were in the wrong wash to head toward Dominguez. So we picked our way cross-country to the wash we needed. Had we continued downstream in the main wash a ways, we could have taken the Smoky Creek TRAIL to where we needed to go.

Clear as mud?

BTW, here's the pour-off from above:
(http://www.jeffblaylock.com/window/photos/1799.jpg)

So we picked our way over the spine of that outcrop on the right (the one in the bright sun) and ended up at the bottom of the drainage in the bend behind that outcrop (and about 150 feet or so downstream).
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: TheWildWestGuy on December 16, 2009, 11:08:24 PM
The big pouroff at Badknee's "W" is right before you exit the wash and climb out of it on the South side.  You can get around the pour-off easily enough on the North side so you should not have any problem.  But with 10 people of different fitness levels your bound to have a challenging trip.   Watch for the rock cairns slightly downdip from the pour off marking the trail leading out of the wash.   There is usually water below the pour-off and at several places along the route.  You are rarely more than a mile or two away from water on this route and often it is running along several stretches from the Dodson Junction down to the pour off.   When you climb out of the drainage below the pour-off you will climb slightly in elevation and enter a broad, rugged, treeless, dryland valley with big views in all directions.  What L. Parent has called the "Basin" of the Sierra Quemada's.  After that you go downhill and back into another drainage with springs and water.   Eventually climbing out of that drainage to go around Sugarloaf Mtn and back into the Smokey Creek drainage again at the lone tree pouroff.   Look for calcite pegmatites and calcite "boxwork" viens in the volcanic rocks along the route.

It's a great route, very interesting geology, plenty of water, springs, waterfalls, and wildlife.   TWWG
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on December 16, 2009, 11:13:07 PM
Quote
just wondering about getting a group of 10 or so people to the springs below that pouroff

I'd be cautious about counting on those springs to have water. I've been through before when none of the springs on Jeff's route were evident. The last couple of winters have had a lot of water but I'd wait for a trip report before depending on them this year. It had been so wet that in many places along the washes there was running water for long stretches.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on December 27, 2009, 06:20:42 PM
sorry for the late reply, things got busy recently.

the reason i'm asking is i think i'll be bringing the large January group down Smokey Creek. I want to keep the miles to a minimum, so I was planning on taking the first wash you come to when heading east on the Dodson. After we get in that wash, we'd hike down to to the springs between pt 4230 and 4620 and set up camp nearby. Depending on level of output the group wants to exert the next day, we'd either head back upstream and out at homer wilson or continue down stream and exit at the mule ears overlook. I'm betting the group will vote on the shorter route, but i'm hoping the extra 3 miles won't scare them off.

after re-reading all the threads and connecting all the reports, i think there are only a few small and one 5-6' pouroffs which won't be a problem for everyone to get around. i think they'll enjoy this hike, hopefully more than the Fresno/Tortuga hike we did last year  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: jeffblaylock on December 28, 2009, 09:51:18 AM
sorry for the late reply, things got busy recently.

the reason i'm asking is i think i'll be bringing the large January group down Smokey Creek. I want to keep the miles to a minimum, so I was planning on taking the first wash you come to when heading east on the Dodson. After we get in that wash, we'd hike down to to the springs between pt 4230 and 4620 and set up camp nearby. Depending on level of output the group wants to exert the next day, we'd either head back upstream and out at homer wilson or continue down stream and exit at the mule ears overlook. I'm betting the group will vote on the shorter route, but i'm hoping the extra 3 miles won't scare them off.

after re-reading all the threads and connecting all the reports, i think there are only a few small and one 5-6' pouroffs which won't be a problem for everyone to get around. i think they'll enjoy this hike, hopefully more than the Fresno/Tortuga hike we did last year  :icon_cool:

Keep in mind that the Homer Wilson exit requires hiking over a saddle -- the high point of the Dodson Trail -- while the hike downstream to Mule Ears trailhead is downhill.  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 02, 2010, 09:27:40 PM
 I hope I'm not too late on this but you don't want to take the first wash after ascending the high pass from Homer Wilson going west to east on the Dodson trail. That wash has a high pour off without the advantage of a trail to skirt around it. I described it in this report http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/your-trip-reports/january-backpack-t5208.0.html (http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/your-trip-reports/january-backpack-t5208.0.html). You want to start down the Smoky Creek trail and just stay in the wash the entire way to the springs. The pour off that must be skirted in this drainage is a piece of cake compared to the other one is cairned if you look carefully on the right. If you miss it just backtrack from the pouroff until you see a way out of the wash.

The other more difficult pouroff has no easy exit from the wash and we hiked up over 100 feet above the wash to go around it.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: elhombre on January 05, 2010, 11:21:51 AM
Viper, there is a real nice camping spot just east of the "X" on badknees post #16 map which is big enough for 10 people.  It is right on the trail on the north-east side of the creek where the main trail starts to gain elevation.  If your group is getting tired and doesn't want to head off trail on the green route, this would be an option for you.   

I am heading this way in a few weeks myself on our way from Homer Wilson to Dominquez.  After reading these post, I think I will try the "Blue to Green" route for a change.  Can anyone give me an idea of how long it will take me to walk on the Smokey creek trail east from "Z" to "X"?  Doesn't look like much more than an hour, but as I have learned, distances in Big Bend can be misleading. 
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 05, 2010, 03:01:01 PM
I'm a little confused. Which direction are you traveling? If you are traveling south based on BK's map in his first post from "blue to green" you will not be in the same drainage as points w,x, and y in the map in post 16. That map reflects the actual Smoky Creek trail. The first map reflects alternatives to the trail, the "blue to green" option as probably the easiest.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: elhombre on January 05, 2010, 05:17:00 PM
My plan is to walk North to South.  Stay in the drainage and walk the blue trail, then down the green trail until it hits the actual Smokey creek trail at point "Z".  Then turn east and walk to point "X" where the campsite is located.  From there, we will go off trail, as we did last year, and head over to the Dominquez area.  I was curious about the trail travel time from "Z to X".  I must say I had to look at the posted maps more than a few times to get it straight in my head.  And I know from personal experience, this would be a rather unique event.  I concede that I may have the maps all wrong.

Last year, we started the morning by leaving the campsite at the Dodson - Smoky Creek trail intersection and walked all the way to a nice spot about an hour North of Dominquez spring.  We walked on the main Smokey creek trail all the way until we turned east at point "X".  It took most all of the day with about an hour of sunlight left to set up camp.  We did not walk fast at all.  I am trying to get an idea of how much more time will be needed for us to explore the blue-green route and make it to the same campsite near Dominquez again.  I know strolling down the creek bed (blue to green route)will take more time, and the trail from "Z" to "X" looks very quick and easy.  I just thought I would ask some people who have actually put their boots on that trail segment.   Thanks

Did I just hi-jack this reborn thread? ........Sorry...
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 05, 2010, 05:49:26 PM
Ok, I get it now. To hike from Z to X is very easy, less than an hour. Last year we hiked the "blue-green" route starting about 10 minutes down from the Smoky Creek-Dodson junction and were past the Z by lunch. On another trip we started at Dominguez, hiked north up Fisk canyon and the west up and over to point X then down Smoky Creek trail past Z all the way to the black rock canyon before dark. Both trips were in January. You should not lose any time taking the new route as walking down the drainage is pretty easy and be able to reach your campsite with daylight left.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: badknees on January 05, 2010, 07:42:05 PM
Ok, I get it now. To hike from Z to X is very easy, less than an hour. Last year we hiked the "blue-green" route starting about 10 minutes down from the Smoky Creek-Dodson junction and were past the Z by lunch. On another trip we started at Dominguez, hiked north up Fisk canyon and the west up and over to point X then down Smoky Creek trail past Z all the way to the black rock canyon before dark. Both trips were in January. You should not lose any time taking the new route as walking down the drainage is pretty easy and be able to reach your campsite with daylight left.

Robert is right on about the z to x travel time. It is about 1.7 miles and the only part that isn't easy, is the climb over the saddle. That isn't hard though.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 05, 2010, 11:09:30 PM
Looking at my track logs it took 20 minutes to travel from z to y (don't have the y to x) and 2 hrs 40 minutes to walk from Dodson trail junction down blue-green route to point z.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: elhombre on January 06, 2010, 11:35:40 AM
Thanks y'all.  A few more trips to the area and I hope I will begin to know it as well as many of you.  Sounds like there is still some water in the area to be found.  I will carry 1 gallon in reserve no matter what for peace of mind.  I'm sure Cookie will post up a trip report when we get back. 
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on January 18, 2010, 11:19:36 PM
reading this thread is doing nothing but confusing me  :rolling:

i did this hike, but during the first week when i was solo so i wouldn't have to worry about the big group.

i took the western-most branch since i left the day before a helpful post was made  :icon_redface: it took about half an hour to work around that pouroff since i was alone and didn't want to roll an ankle or anything, but it wasn't technical by any means. there was flowing water at that pouroff as well at the next junction downstream and all through the canyon south of that.

that was a great area and i will be back to finish the creek all the way south to mule ears and to poke around in the other washes.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on January 18, 2010, 11:22:12 PM
is this the pouroff you bypassed Jeff?

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3891.jpg)

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3890.jpg)

it was dry when i was there, but it seemed that it was easily climbable when a little water was there. get too much water though and you'd have to go around.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 19, 2010, 09:34:12 PM
Quote
it took about half an hour to work around that pouroff

I have the same picture you took looking down the wash from the highest point above it before climbing back down past the pouroff. I checked my track logs and we took about the same amount of time getting around.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: jeffblaylock on January 19, 2010, 10:31:43 PM
Viper, I think the one we bypassed was quite a bit larger, unless I'm fooled by the scale of your photo (or I fooled myself into thinking it was taller). At the time, I thought the pouroff was 40-50 feet high, and water was flowing over it.

(http://www.jeffblaylock.com/window/photos/1799.jpg)

The coordinates I recorded at the time are UTM 13R 0661975 E 3230196 N NAD27, which, looking at the USGS Emory Peak quad, is just below and to the right of the "g" in "Spring" centered beneath the words "BIG BEND" -- which makes sense, as we failed to take the Smoky Creek Trail out of the drainage below this pouroff and instead continued downstream. The map shows the trail leaving the drainage just downstream from the spring. We did not exit the drainage until the spring marked just southeast of Pt. 4,230, then trekked cross-country almost due south to rejoin the actual trail. We camped at that spot, as the opposite wash is the way to Fisk Canyon.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on January 27, 2010, 05:17:17 PM
looking at the map i'd say that was the same pour off. it was the only large pour off along the smokey creek trail I came across on the route i took

and if i'm following the way you went, i went that same way (down to the spring near pt 4320). the trail was just a few hundred yards further down the trail, most likely would have been much easier to follow. it looked like brutal cross country hiking  :eusa_whistle:
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: Robert on January 27, 2010, 06:40:29 PM
I'm with Jeff, I don't remember the big pouroff looking that way.

Viper, you came down the "left" (or westerm) arm of the Smoky Creek drainage from the Dodson instead of taking the trail, which goes down the right (or eastern) arm of the Smoky Creek drainage. The pouroff that is on along the trail is as Jeff described, maybe a mile back up the wash from pt 4230. The pouroff in the picture that you took could be in the drainage past where the west and east arms of the drainage converge as I remember and is not that difficult to come down.

Now keep in mind that Jeff's pouroff is no where as difficult as the one that you had to come around in the upper portion of your wash. There are a few cairns that mark a deer path that go around it to the right but you don't climb up nearly as high as the other one.

So if you went down the western arm of the drainage where did you go after you joined the trail past pt 4230?
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: badknees on January 27, 2010, 11:37:05 PM
I'm with Jeff, I don't remember the big pouroff looking that way.

Viper, you came down the "left" (or westerm) arm of the Smoky Creek drainage from the Dodson instead of taking the trail, which goes down the right (or eastern) arm of the Smoky Creek drainage. The pouroff that is on along the trail is as Jeff described, maybe a mile back up the wash from pt 4230. The pouroff in the picture that you took could be in the drainage past where the west and east arms of the drainage converge as I remember and is not that difficult to come down.

Now keep in mind that Jeff's pouroff is no where as difficult as the one that you had to come around in the upper portion of your wash. There are a few cairns that mark a deer path that go around it to the right but you don't climb up nearly as high as the other one.

So if you went down the western arm of the drainage where did you go after you joined the trail past pt 4230?

I don't know if this helps, but there are no pouroffs between 4230' and the main trail.
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on January 28, 2010, 03:31:29 AM
i'll make a topo tomorrow, hopefully clear up my end of things  :eusa_doh:

i kind of enjoy this place being obscure and difficult to unravel, it's nice to have a place that's still very off the beaten path
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: 01ACRViper on January 29, 2010, 06:08:41 PM
Alright, here is the route I took on my 3 day hike. The red line is 1st day in from Homer Wilson, down to base camp at the red dot. The blue line is the day hike on the second morning, the gree line is out back to homer wilson on day 3. The blue dots are springs with water running a distance past the spring itself. Yellow dots are small springs that immediately go under gravel. The green dot is the pour off I pictured for Jeff.

pictures of the springs, if I took one

first blue dot on the western fork of Smokey Creek, at the pouroff blocking that branch.

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3795.jpg)

second blue dot, just above camp. the water here ran past the 4th blue dot

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3806.jpg)

3rd blue dot

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3820.jpg)

don't have one of the 4th blue dot

first yellow dot moving south on smokey creek

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3834.jpg)

southern blue dot in drainage east of Smokey Creek, the drainage the trail follows to the east of Sugarloaf mountain

(http://www.grbphotography.net/folders/bbjan10/images/IMG_3857.jpg)

don't have a picture of the other blue dot in that drainage
Title: Re: Smoky Creek Question
Post by: jeffblaylock on January 29, 2010, 10:30:22 PM
The red dot on the map below is where I took the photo. Definitely the same pour-off.

Guess it's another confirmation of an important lesson in the desert. Things look completely different when viewed from another angle.