BIBE GAS PRICES

[Al]

I bought a cup similar to this at Academy for around $10. 

http://www.liquidplanet.com/French-Press-Mugs-As-Seen-On-HGTVS-I-WANT-THAT-p-662.html

Nuke some water until it boils in the microwave, grind some coffee while the water is heating, pour the coffee then the water in the cup, wait a couple of minutes, then lower the press.  You can make a GREAT cup of coffee in a few minutes for a few cents and you are good to go! 

Al

[SHANEA]

STILL CHEAPER THAN STARBUCKS

You be sure and let us know when you get that coffee engine conversion kit perfected, as at this rate it won't be long...

  (that come back deserves three of them out of a possible four...)

[dkerr24]

I'm sure it has gone up some since, but on Feb 14th, it was $3.30 gal at the PJ station when I left the park.

[presidio]

STILL CHEAPER THAN STARBUCKS

An interesting, yet irrelevant, observation. While it's quite common to compare the cost of something to another, completely unrelated, commodity, it serves no comparative purpose. For example, gasoline is still cheaper than a heart transplant. True, but so what?

Starbucks (poor coffee, but that's another topic), unlike gasoline, is a luxury item. When Starbucks becomes too expensive to drink, the company will fail without too many repercussions to the economy. When gasoline becomes too expensive to purchase and/or becomes scarce, the economy will falter.

It's happening right now.

Oil prices are way up due to global demand and environmental activism that says it is evil to extract it in or around the continental US, but okay to rip it out of the ground in other countries (face it...the techniques of oil production are the same wherever it is found). In the quest of the environmental elitists to 'protect' their turf, they likely cause far more damage in other countries where the regulatory processes are less stringent. It is a case of 'we don't care about the impacts to you as long as we don't have to look at it here'.

Food prices are increasing with remarkable speed due to the higher cost of fuel to transport it and the run to take advantage of all the tax incentives on biofuels that shifts grain production from food to distillable fuel. It's trendy to say that biofuels are cleaner/greener but there's scant evidence that it is in fact such or that it will significantly change either reliance on or cost of fossil fuels. Without the tax advantages, there would be not much of a biofuel industry. Like hybrid cars, there's a lot of hidden cost in this that we can pretend isn't there as we lunge forward believing we are achieving a fundamental advance in self-sufficiency.

We need a Manhattan Project emphasis on energy (in all forms), not Willie Nelson driving around in a bus proudly proclaiming it runs on french fry fumes.

[badknees]

STILL CHEAPER THAN STARBUCKS

An interesting, yet irrelevant, observation. While it's quite common to compare the cost of something to another, completely unrelated, commodity, it serves no comparative purpose. For example, gasoline is still cheaper than a heart transplant. True, but so what?

Starbucks (poor coffee, but that's another topic), unlike gasoline, is a luxury item. When Starbucks becomes too expensive to drink, the company will fail without too many repercussions to the economy. When gasoline becomes too expensive to purchase and/or becomes scarce, the economy will falter.

It's happening right now.

Oil prices are way up due to global demand and environmental activism that says it is evil to extract it in or around the continental US, but okay to rip it out of the ground in other countries (face it...the techniques of oil production are the same wherever it is found). In the quest of the environmental elitists to 'protect' their turf, they likely cause far more damage in other countries where the regulatory processes are less stringent. It is a case of 'we don't care about the impacts to you as long as we don't have to look at it here'.

Food prices are increasing with remarkable speed due to the higher cost of fuel to transport it and the run to take advantage of all the tax incentives on biofuels that shifts grain production from food to distillable fuel. It's trendy to say that biofuels are cleaner/greener but there's scant evidence that it is in fact such or that it will significantly change either reliance on or cost of fossil fuels. Without the tax advantages, there would be not much of a biofuel industry. Like hybrid cars, there's a lot of hidden cost in this that we can pretend isn't there as we lunge forward believing we are achieving a fundamental advance in self-sufficiency.

We need a Manhattan Project emphasis on energy (in all forms), not Willie Nelson driving around in a bus proudly proclaiming it runs on french fry fumes.

Presidio,

Your observations are indeed correct and insightful. My "Starbucks" parallel was posted to highlight something different altogether.

1. Exploration and production companies along with upstream marketing drill $ 5-50MM holes in the ground with millions of dollars worth of equipment and thousands of people. They transport crude great distances (sometimes 1/2 way around the world), refine, transport again and distribute. The gov't takes it's tax cut all along the way, hundreds of thousands (probably millions)of jobs are created and you still only paying $3/gal.


2. Starbuck sells (I agree poor coffee) for $4, something that we all can make at home for $ 0.15.


The irony is ....everybody is always bashing the energy industry. As a member of that industry, I am proud of what I do along with many others like me that provide energy to a largely uninformed public.


So, I say until the complainers practice conservation by changing their wasteful lifestyles, drive smaller cars, support drilling in ANWAR, etc, etc, etc. The public can still change demand

.........IT STILL CHEAPER THAN STARBUCKS.


By the way... Coffee (not Starbucks Cafe Burnt) may be a luxury for some, but it is a necessity for me

[SHANEA]

So, you are going to tell me that the demand has risen so fast that it is reflected in the current price for a bbl. of oil?  You are also going to tell me that the lack of drilling off the coast of Florida (ask W's brother about this - as Jeb opposed drilling off of Florida) and ANWR, etc. are also responsible for this? 

How about looking to Venezuela, OPEC, etc. - those that are controlling the market.  Also, if demand is so high, shouldn't we be having gas lines and shortages - you can only buy gas on even/odd days based on your lisc. plate, limit ten gallons per visit, etc.  If demand is so high and it is so expensive to find more oil, etc. then should Exxon have posted a PROFIT of $40,600,000,000.00, Shell - $31,300,000,000.00 - Chevron-Texaco - $18,700,000,000.00, ConocoPhilips - $11,900,000,000.00,  BP - $20,800,000,000.00. 

FROM:  Big Oil Feasts on Economic Woes

[badknees]

So, you are going to tell me that the demand has risen so fast that it is reflected in the current price for a bbl. of oil?  You are also going to tell me that the lack of drilling off the coast of Florida (ask W's brother about this - as Jeb opposed drilling off of Florida) and ANWR, etc. are also responsible for this? 

How about looking to Venezuela, OPEC, etc. - those that are controlling the market.  Also, if demand is so high, shouldn't we be having gas lines and shortages - you can only buy gas on even/odd days based on your lisc. plate, limit ten gallons per visit, etc.  If demand is so high and it is so expensive to find more oil, etc. then should Exxon have posted a PROFIT of $40,600,000,000.00, Shell - $31,300,000,000.00 - Chevron-Texaco - $18,700,000,000.00, ConocoPhilips - $11,900,000,000.00,  BP - $20,800,000,000.00. 

FROM:  Big Oil Feasts on Economic Woes

OIL PRICES

There are many things that cause oil price increases.

1. Demand

2. Geopolitical concerns - $25-30 bbl

3. Supply (Inventory)

4. Refining capacity for high sulphur or low gravity crudes

5. Strength of the dollar on foreign markets. - This one has been quite significant recently.



GAS LINES AND DEMAND

Regarding your question about the lack of gas lines, be certain that storage and in transit supplies of crude are barely meeting demand at the current time. If there is a significant geopolitical incident that interrupts this marginal storage cushion, you WILL see gas lines etc. The price will climb to a point that global demand will diminish. Oil will go to the highest bidder.

Crude Inventory is down over last year , but the current gasoline inventory is up a bit. I would expect to see a softening of the gasoline price if this trend continues, despite recent crude price increases


Petroleum Stocks                                                           % Chg fr
(Million Barrels)                    02/22/08  02/15/08  02/22/07      Prev Week   Yr Ago
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crude Oil (Excluding SPR) (9)            308.5     305.3     319.5             1.0    -3.4
Total Motor Gasoline                     232.6     230.3     218.2             1.0     6.6
   Reformulated                            1.1       0.9       1.2            22.2    -8.3
   Conventional                          115.5     114.8     116.8             0.6    -1.1
   Blending Components                   116.1     114.5     100.2             1.4    15.9
Kerosene-Type Jet Fuel                    40.1      39.8      38.8             0.8     3.4
Distillate Fuel Oil (7)                  120.0     122.5     127.3            -2.0    -5.7
   15 ppm sulfur and Under                65.4      66.8      58.5            -2.1    11.8
   > 15 ppm to 500 ppm sulfur             20.6      20.6      24.3             0.0   -15.2
   > 500 ppm sulfur                       33.9      35.2      44.5            -3.7   -23.8
Residual Fuel Oil                         36.7      36.9      37.5            -0.5    -2.1
Propane/Propylene                         31.6      34.0      34.4            -7.1    -8.1
Unfinished Oils                           85.5      83.7      87.6             2.2    -2.4
Other Oils (10)                          125.7     125.4     128.1             0.2    -1.9


Welcome to reality.



VENEZUELA, OPEC CONTROLLING THE MARKET

Venezuela has a difficult time controllling the oil market with it's current state of production. They export a low API gravity crude which requires special refining facilities that are not readily available. The US does however import and refine Venezuelan low API gravity crude.

OPEC on the other hand has other members that produce higher quality crudes that are not tied to a single market. OPEC, Saudi etc are currently producing at a rate that is not sustainable and cuts in OPEC these days are not voluntary. They are now and will continue to encounter problems meeting demand. Do some research on current and future predictions for OPEC production and global demand and get back to me when you truly understand the present status of OPEC's ability to meet demand.

-------------
PROFITS


Some Oil company profits are very large numbers. Some Oil companies are very large companies.

Very large companies with very large revenues X % profit = Very large numbers.

While you are on this track do some research and compare % profitabilty for large oil companies against other industrial and service market sectors. Report back what you find, I think you will be surprised (or not?)

[tbone]

OIL PRICES
...

Oh sure, Shane gets a coherent, well thought out response.  Why not just call him a sheep and be done with it? 

[okiehiker]

Unfortunately markets are almost entirely irrational.  The majority of trading in most goods, services or commodities is done by people with an actual interest in the market. However, there is now so much trading on the fringes by people with imaginary insight and purely speculative interests that markets no longer (if they ever did) bear any relationship to underlying realities.  If brokers and others whose sole interest is in earning a commission could be removed from the equation, and if those who are solely interested in manipulating markets could be controlled, then markets might make sense.

Markets produce irrational bubbles and unjustified crashes.  Witness the recent housing disaster... My sister built a nice home in a suburb between Washington DC and Baltimore.  It is one of the highest price and cost of living areas in the US.  In four years after building their house, the house next door, built the same week by the same contractor with the same materials and square-footage sold for $900,000 more than double its original price. 

This house was never worth $900,000.  The "everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it" line is BS.  Amazon.com never had an underlying worth that justified and market capitalization of $100,000,000,000.  The housing market is undergoing a correction right now.  That lenders bought into making loans on inflated values, that brokers told people to invest in dot-com shams and overvalued companies is the only justified use of the death penalty in America today in my estimation.  These thieves destablize society more than any other brand of criminal in our country. 

Energy markets will undergo a correction.  They have risen irrationally, helped in part by those who do in fact manipulate supply and refining facilities to their own economic benefit, in part by incredibly misguided foreign policy on the part of our government, and most significantly by ignorant consumers who think they have a right to the world's resources without cost, and that goods and commodities somehow can be manufactured out of air. 

Boone Pickens may be right and that we will see $150 oil.  Just remember that we went from $32 oil in 1982 to $8.50 in July of 1985.  The market will crash unless we take steps to stabilize it.

Regarding the profitability of the energy industry, it historically has underperformed most other industries.  (Historically, airlines have been the poorest performing industry overall.) 

[badknees]

OIL PRICES
...

Oh sure, Shane gets a coherent, well thought out response.  Why not just call him a sheep and be done with it? 

That's a pretty weak argument.  How does having your gun unloaded prevent you from being called into military service.  That's what a militia is for.  Doesn't have diddly to do with self-protection.  Presidio, can you do any better?

Uh.... A coherent well thought out post, usually receives a coherent well thought out response. - Unloaded gun= prevent military service ?? hunh?


Besides Shane and I have had this going for a while, kind of a familiarity thing.


Baaa.