Sleeping without a tent?

[lighter fluid]

I think I'm going to just have to visit REI or something. I'm pretty torn between a bivy and perhaps the Big Agnes SL2 or SL3 tent. I know each is a completely different product, but I am also trying to figure out which is the best initial investment given the fact that I'd love to convince my wife to overnight South Rim with me at some point. Thanks for the link, though, as it has definitely helped shed some light on my available options. Only problem is that now I want a bivy AND a super light, quick setup mesh tent!

Stingrey,

Have you considered combining a bug bivy and and a tarp?  I've used this combo effectively on a couple of trips. 

Here's a combo that looks like it might work and it weighs in under 2 lbs.
Sil Wing
BugaBivy

Maybe a combo like this isn't for you, but it seems like it would be bit more versatile than a bivy sack. 

That's a good combo Ay Chihuahua!. I have used the same combo myself a number of times.

In the pic below I have my Golite poncho tarp pitched in a storm pitch, with my black diamond winter bivy and the A16 bug bivy.
The trekking poles in use are the Swiss Gear variety they sell at Wally World. They are suprisingly durable and work very well. I have used the same pair for over two years. The guylines are Kelty Triptease. 50' ft of the Triptease weighs 1oz.



In the next picture you can see the Kelty triptease reflect the light of the camera flash.
The Kelty Triptease is designed to do this so when your headlamp shines on it at night , the guylines will glow and help to keep you from tripping over them.
Once again the Black Diamond winter Bivy is underneath the the Golite Poncho tarp as is the A16 bug bivy.

[homerboy2u]

 Given your loaded pictures,Lighter Fluid...is it possible to sleep well with out the tent?...this goes for all of you,as well.

  I use a standard Ozark Trail Tent, unless it is going to be bad weather, then i bring my Marine issue military tent...and my Coleman air mattress, a pair of earplugs and i am switched off...completely until morning comes. I sleep like a baby, heck i even dream...adn that is something, given that we are sleeping outdoors, and you feel and hear almost everything, unless the earplugs fall off and i hear the coyotes,snoring friends...myself included,twitching branches and all sorts of sounds which i know now they wont bother me but will keep me awake.

  I have never done the tarp thing,but would be curious to explore this sort of camping.

Homero

[lighter fluid]

Given your loaded pictures,Lighter Fluid...is it possible to sleep well with out the tent?...this goes for all of you,as well.

  I use a standard Ozark Trail Tent, unless it is going to be bad weather, then i bring my Marine issue military tent...and my Coleman air mattress, a pair of earplugs and i am switched off...completely until morning comes. I sleep like a baby, heck i even dream...adn that is something, given that we are sleeping outdoors, and you feel and hear almost everything, unless the earplugs fall off and i hear the coyotes,snoring friends...myself included,twitching branches and all sorts of sounds which i know now they wont bother me but will keep me awake.

  I have never done the tarp thing,but would be curious to explore this sort of camping.

Homero

Homero,
I sleep very well without a tent. As well as I do with a tent. You can go without the tent and keep the same creature comforts you mentioned above. You can still use an air mattress, still use your earplugs inside a bivy and/ or under a tarp. It may take a bit of getting used to not having the tent walls around you, but usually one can adjust quickly. My son didn't want anything to do with tarp camping initially, but now he loves it.

In the pic below you can see our poncho tarps pitched together. My son is using an outdoor Products adult pocho tarp and I am using the blue Golite poncho tarp.


The next image is the same camp with my son sleeping soundly under his tarp and under the A16 bug bivy. To keep his pack weight as light as possible, he is using a dollar store plastic painters sheet and a walmart closed cell foam pad cut to half length and Kelty triptease guylines.


Both of these pictures were taken in Dinkey Wilderness, in the Sierra Nevada in California. It is black bear country and bear cannisters are recommended. We chose to bear bag our food. We did so about 100 yards away from camp.
We keep a clean camp and we keep our kitchen and dining area a good distance away from
our sleeping area, if we feel we are in an area that justifies it. We check to be certain we haven't left out any food in camp. A tent may seem like security, but if a bear, or mountain lion for that matter, wants what is inside it, then that layer of nylon is not going to do much to deter either one.

One of the great benefits of camping without a tent is waking up in the middle of the night, opening your eyes, and seeing the star filled sky as oppossed to your tent walls. Or catching the sun rising as you first wake up.
These pics are from my bivy as I awoke in the morning along the Dodson Trail.



The night before, as I lay in my bivy looking up at the stars, I fell asleep watching the occasional satellite and meteor cross the sky.
 

[lighter fluid]

Nice pic STARLITDARKNESS3.

Here is a pic of me in my bivy along the Dodson portion of the OLM in 2006.

Lighter Fluid, I know you didn't carry that camp stool in, as an ultralighter, but I am glad that someone carried in a cold beverage for you .

I have used bivy's for years, mostly in wetter climates, in the desert I usually just use a small ground cloth to keep the bag clean.  I have used an OR, I think it is called the Sleeping Bag cover (18oz. no poles) for about 8 years and it has been great.  All kinds of conditions, mostly winter, with 15 degree bags, I am 6'1", 180 lbs. and it is plenty big even with the pad inside.  I have just changed to a Mountain Laurel Designs Superlight bivy (6 oz.) and it seems perfect so far.  I use bivy's with a tarp if rain is in the forecast.

 
LOL.....Mule ears, I wish someone would have carried in a cold beverage for me. I don't think my buddies were going to volunteer though. The one that brought the chair you see in the pic also brought the The North Face Roadrunner 22 fly and groundcloth you see behind me to my left.

The rootbeer can I am holding is actually my cook pot on that trip. I used it in conjunction with my homemade altoid esbit stove you see in the pic below.


Here is a better pic of the stove by itself.


The altoid esbit stove was all my brother and I needed to boil water for our meals and hot drinks. This stove has a pot stand made from coat hangers and the brass inserts that go with 1/4" delrin sleeves. They can be found in the plumbing dept of hardware stores.

My brother was doing the groundcloth concept you that you referred to using.


 

[chisos_muse]

LF, you're a backpacking GOD!

After reading this thread and seeing your photos, Musey thinks she can do the tarp/buggy net thing too. Not sure I'm up for the lil Altoid thingy though, but it does look like it'd be fun to try. Hey I just had an idea....we need to have a Bender equipment show/get together! It would be better than a trip to REI...hands on, advice from the people who really use the stuff, and beer!

[lighter fluid]

After reading this thread and seeing your photos, Musey thinks she can do the tarp/buggy net thing too. Not sure I'm up for the lil Altoid thingy though, but it does look like it'd be fun to try. Hey I just had an idea....we need to have a Bender equipment show/get together! It would be better than a trip to REI...hands on, advice from the people who really use the stuff, and beer!

Muse,
There are number of ways to do the "tarp/buggy net thing" so that each individual can tailor it to their own preference.
The poncho tarp is one of the more extreme ultralight tarp choices, but it saves weight by being multiuse.
You could use a larger tarp like the one in the picture below if you want a bit more space, or go with an even larger one. The pic below is from the same Dinkey wilderness trip. My brother and his boys are using a 8 x 6 Campmor coated Nylon Tarp pitched with Kelty triptease guylines. The 8 x 6 isn't really large enough for 3 adults, but with his boys it worked well enough. It has a claimed weight of 15.2 ounces. I know we weighed it on the kitchen scale and seem to recall that it was very close to that weight.


My nephews chose to wear simple walmart Ozark Trail mosquito headnets while my brother opted to use the Gossamer Gear bug canopy you see pictured below. It weighs in at 3 oz and possesses rock pockets on two of the corners to that allow you to place something haevy in them to help hold the canopy down.


The altoid stove is fun! It does limit your menu to meals that only require you to boil water, but you can get creative with this as well by using a cozy and effectively continuing to cook your meal without using fuel.

Your "Bender equipment show" sounds like a fun idea. I would be there for it.

[homerboy2u]

Now, when it rains. You will have dampness issues...what do yoy then?...do you hack it, wait for it to die off, or do you prepare yourself with more rain gear?...do you have any pics of this as well?.

  Inside the tent, with the Airmattress, i get all the comforts of a good sleep, plus i am isolated from the ground and any wetness i could get from it.

[lighter fluid]

Now, when it rains. You will have dampness issues...what do yoy then?...do you hack it, wait for it to die off, or do you prepare yourself with more rain gear?...do you have any pics of this as well?.

  Inside the tent, with the Airmattress, i get all the comforts of a good sleep, plus i am isolated from the ground and any wetness i could get from it.

Yeah, you always have to be aware of that possibility. Obviously you probably don't want to take a tarp out when the forecast calls for heavy rains all weekend. There options if you are out there and see the weather turning foul though. One would be the type of pitch you use. Depending on the weather, you adjust your tarps pitch to help avoid dampness or spray from the outside. You can adjust your pitch to face away from the particular direction a storm is supposed to be blowing in from and pitch it so it is less "open" than the previous pitches. I can take the same Golite Poncho tarp you saw in the pics before, and pitch it differently to supply better coverage, as in the pics below.






You mentioned being "isolated from the ground and any wetness". That is what I would be using my bivy for. Your tent floor keeps you from getting your sleeping bag or yourself damp. Thats what my bivy does for me. Or as Mule ears mentioned, using a groundcloth will do the same thing. Certain fabrics will do it better than others. I have found the particuar bivy I use to do a much better job than advertised at keeping moisture at bay. The Epic fabric repels water well and in  most conditions breaths well at the same time.
My kids and I were driving in a storm in Oklahoma and decided to pull over for the night at the  Talimenia State Park in the Kiamichi mountains of Oklahoma. The rain was coming down steady, so I pitched a two man tent for the kids and tossed my bivy down beside it with my sleeping bag inside. You can see the rain beading up on the Epic fabric of the Black Daimond bivy.


It rained fairly steady through the night. Not hard but steady. In the pic below you can see the wet ground around our camp.
Yet my bivy kept me warm and kept my down bag dry. 

Just for the record though. If I know ahead of time that rain is coming, I always take the tarp along with the bivy. 

And the tarps are multiuse and allow you to get creative. This past summer my son and a friend and I were forced to stop hiking and pull off the Tabeguache/Shavano trail when a storm with heavy winds and steady cold sleet mixed with rain moved in quickly. Unfortunately we had to take the first spot that looked usable and it was a good half a mile from any water source. I pitched my sons tarp and our friends tarp at angles that formed a sort of makeshift "A" frame and then tensioned it so that water would run down the tarps and into our waiting cook pots. It worked rather well.

[mule ears]

and then tensioned it so that water would run down the tarps and into our waiting cook pots. It worked rather well.

I had to do the same thing last month on the AT.  Getting very dark and the rain started we pitched the tarp on a less than desirable hillside spot and filled the cook pot with water off the tarp.  Didn't have to get out of the bag and bivy, stayed toasty and dry all night.   

[lighter fluid]

and then tensioned it so that water would run down the tarps and into our waiting cook pots. It worked rather well.

I had to do the same thing last month on the AT.  Getting very dark and the rain started we pitched the tarp on a less than desirable hillside spot and filled the cook pot with water off the tarp.  Didn't have to get out of the bag and bivy, stayed toasty and dry all night.   

  Greatness Mule ears! :high_five: I think that's one of the true joys of tarp and bivy camping! You can remain toasty and dry and secure and yet still be so much a part of the environment around you. 

[homerboy2u]

I agree with you Mule Ears & Lighter Fluid: Sometimes you want to tackle nature mano a mano, and you just don't want to carry all the bulky gear with you.

 Now, in my case if should go to Serranias del Burro, where weather patterns change by the hour, there is just NO WAY to predict sudden storms or gusty winds..whatever!, a Bivy sack will help you tough it out. I am convinced of that.

 Ok, given the previous statements , i have been reading on some of the products, to take in consideration:

 These are all Cabelas items:

Outdoor Research Aurora Bivy

Cabelas XPG Bivy Sack

Cabelas Hunter Bivoac Sack

Cabelas Tarps:

Cabelas XPG Ultra Light Wing Tarp

Kelty Noah's Tarp

 Now Bargainoutfitters.c om has their own version of a Bivy Sack:

Guide Gear Bivy Tent

 And a video to tag along.

 What are your thoughts fellas?

[bdann]

Homero, I have this little guy: http://www.eurekatent.com/p-22-solitaire.aspx#
It was cheap, it's light, easy setup, good ventilation, easy to pack, etc...  It is more or less a screen shelter/bivy with a built in rainfly. 

Here it is setup, with the fly rolled up.  It's nice sleeping this way because you can still see the stars, but you still get that (false) sense of security of being "inside" a tent.  It's also easy to get in and out of because it has a zipper that runs the full length across the top, so you just unzip and stand up. 

[lighter fluid]

 Now Bargainoutfitters.c om has their own version of a Bivy Sack:

Guide Gear Bivy Tent

 And a video to tag along.

 What are your thoughts fellas?

Homero,
My brother and my kids and I have used the Bargain outfitters bivy sack you mentioned above on a number of trips.
Here is a pic of it in Colorado in the Grizzly Gulch Basin below Handies Peak.


I have a review of it located here:
http://www.thehikersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=254#254

[lighter fluid]

Homero, I have this little guy: http://www.eurekatent.com/p-22-solitaire.aspx#
It was cheap, it's light, easy setup, good ventilation, easy to pack, etc...  It is more or less a screen shelter/bivy with a built in rainfly. 

Here it is setup, with the fly rolled up.  It's nice sleeping this way because you can still see the stars, but you still get that (false) sense of security of being "inside" a tent.  It's also easy to get in and out of because it has a zipper that runs the full length across the top, so you just unzip and stand up. 

bdann,
I've heard good things about the Solitaire. I have a buddy that has one and likes it a lot.
I did hear complaints in the past that they had issues with poles breaking but that may well be user error.
Do you have any complaints?

[bdann]

bdann,
I've heard good things about the Solitaire. I have a buddy that has one and likes it a lot.
I did hear complaints in the past that they had issues with poles breaking but that may well be user error.
Do you have any complaints?

No complaints thus far, I've had it for just over 1 year.  The poles are very skinny, I could see them being a weak point.