Christmas Mountains

[SHANEA]

I cannot make the Xmas Mts 14 mile hike in and out.

Christmas Mountains: No Country for Old Men

Christmas Mountains: No Country for Old Men
Thanks to a decision this month by Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, the 9,269-acre Christmas Mountains will be open to the public for the first time in at least 17 years.

But as novelist Cormac McCarthy might say, it's no country for old men.

To get there, the curious hiker will have to come in through Big Bend National Park and then cross over miles of tough back country. That part alone might take four hours. And then once a hiker arrives at the boundary of the mountain range, it gets even tougher.

"You'll come to a steep, rugged mountain side," Big Bend superintendent William Wellman said Friday. "To legally access the mountains, you have to go hand-over-hand and scramble up the mountainside."

Wellman encourages anyone making it to check with park officials first -- "in case something goes wrong."

Unlike the situation at Big Bend, the National Park Service has no authority over the Christmas Mountains. However, the National Park Service has a mutual-aid agreement with Brewster County -- which does have jurisdiction -- and so the park service would send out search and rescue teams if called upon, said Wellman.

-- R.A. Dyer

[SHANEA]

State opens Christmas Mountains to public for first time

[TheWildWestGuy]

Anyone got a route outlined on a topo map?  OKiehiker?   This is on my radar now, not this month but possibly in the Fall.     I would probably want to do it as an overnight backpack from the Park road if I can get to some springs or tinajas somewhere along the route.   I also hear that the road to Lake Arnet (sp?) is going to remain open to the public.  Anyone know where this road is inside of TR?   I guess I could just stop at the lodge and ask them.  From what I read the "lake" only holds water a few months of the year and is some sort of local picnic area?   Anyone ever been there?

Seems like this could be a good deal for Terlingua Ranch.  I think it could bring more business to the lodge/cabins and help increase property values.   There will undoubtably be some old crusty hermit types who don't like the strangers coming down the roads but I think most residents will benefit from public access in several different ways.   Seems like it will be a big "selling point"... TWWG

[presidio]

Well, isn't this interesting.  We have never had any access.  The same week that we find out we have access, we have people whining and complaining already.

 

[presidio]

Christmas Mountains: No Country for Old Men
"You'll come to a steep, rugged mountain side," Big Bend superintendent William Wellman said Friday. "To legally access the mountains, you have to go hand-over-hand and scramble up the mountainside."

  Yeah, so don't go there because it is hard and since we don't control it  we haven't had a chance to designate and build trails for your convenience. The conditions might be beyond your abilities since we have not approved any routes. 

Wellman encourages anyone making it to check with park officials first -- "in case something goes wrong."

   

But, if you do go, be sure to check with us so that we know who's out there (it's very important that we know who is crossing the park to get there  ), and so we can pretend to hold your hand and get you used to the idea we are going to be in your backpack no matter what you are doing or where you are going. Besides, you probably aren't competent to do this unless you let us help you. 

Unlike the situation at Big Bend, the National Park Service has no authority over the Christmas Mountains.

   

Thank God for small wonders. May it stay that way. 

However, the National Park Service has a mutual-aid agreement with Brewster County -- which does have jurisdiction -- and so the park service would send out search and rescue teams if called upon, said Wellman.

Oh, and case you didn't catch it the first time, we are still here to hold your hand  . We'll do this even though we've made it clear we don't have enough money or staff to manage what we already have control over, and our SAR teams are SO much better than anyone else.

The bottom line: don't cut the NPS out of your near-park experience. If you do, you might find you don't need us. That would be bad for business and we REALLY don't want to lose control of what you are doing.

Note to NPS...It's not yours, so butt out.

[presidio]

I also hear that the road to Lake Arnet (sp?) is going to remain open to the public.

It's Lake Ament, and it is not now nor has ever been 'open to the public'. It is a private road on TR. At every entrance to TR from a public road (typically Hwy 118), signs are prominently posted that all roads are private. From the TR website: 'All roads on Terlingua Ranch are private Property Owner roads, not Public roads. POATRI owns no roads other than the roads that access the lodge and one water well. POATRI has ingress and egress access to all other roads strictly for maintenance and utilities'. This means TR cannot grant access on any roads except the main ranch road and their well road. Any access grant would involve at least every owner on any given route (and perhaps would involve all land owners)....I can guarantee you it will never be granted as getting all those owners to agree on something like this is worse than herding cats.

Anyone know where this road is inside of TR?   I guess I could just stop at the lodge and ask them.  From what I read the "lake" only holds water a few months of the year and is some sort of local picnic area?   Anyone ever been there?

I doubt anyone at the Lodge will tell you that you can go there (note above reference to private property). The lake is formed by an old masonry dam and there are some picnic shelters near the road. I have been there and in the mountains themselves as I have contacts which made this possible.

Seems like this could be a good deal for Terlingua Ranch.  I think it could bring more business to the lodge/cabins and help increase property values.

Folks owning property at TR typically would not want tourists streaming in...not that many would come nor that much revenue would result to the ranch from those that might come. Going from the lake area directly to the lodge is over some of the poorer 'main' road on TR. As noted above, the roads on the ranch exist solely as a means of accessing owners' properties.

[TheWildWestGuy]

Thanks Presidio but isn't there also a main road going all the way through the ranch over to Persimmon Gap area?  The "Marathon Road" as it's locally called.  It seems like it's in everyone's main interest to provide public access and easements.  Or at least everybody that own's property at TR.   I know I would be willing to pay a lot more for acreage that had significant/large tracts of public-use land nearby/adjacent to it.  Otherwise you are limited to roaming only the lands that you own or can get permission to access.   I think most of us like the idea of roaming around in the badlands and mountains over large areas not just some 40 acre tract of creosote.   Terlingua Ranch can reap the benefits of this free "park" without really having to spend any money or do anything other than grant easements and allow access.  If they block everyone but the "locals" from access it really doesn't help them much or improve their property values... TWWG

[presidio]

Thanks Presidio but isn't there also a main road going all the way through the ranch over to Persimmon Gap area?

Yes.

It seems like it's in everyone's main interest to provide public access and easements.  Or at least everybody that own's property at TR.   I know I would be willing to pay a lot more for acreage that had significant/large tracts of public-use land nearby/adjacent to it.  Otherwise you are limited to roaming only the lands that you own or can get permission to access.   I think most of us like the idea of roaming around in the badlands and mountains over large areas not just some 40 acre tract of creosote.   Terlingua Ranch can reap the benefits of this free "park" without really having to spend any money or do anything other than grant easements and allow access.  If they block everyone but the "locals" from access it really doesn't help them much or improve their property values... TWWG

I think you'll find that TR property owners have no interest is granting access to the Christmas Mtns. In that regard they are exactly like every other private landowner in TX that doesn't want the public on their property. What potential visitors to the CRs may want is of little concern to the landowners.

As to property values. There isn't any particular value to the land out there, but they have nevertheless priced it far higher than it is worth and have been moderately successful in extracting those prices from buyers. Even if access to the CRs produced a stream of visitors (which it won't) there is no way that would cause the land to be any more valuable...and likely would be less valuable for those parcels where the public would be accessing the CRs, as the solitude and isolation that attract people out there would be lost to public traffic.

While it's nice to have property adjacent to public land, it's the rare landowner who thinks that great for anyone other than themselves.

What's the solution? Buy a 5 acre tract near a CR access point to provide parking. Then, negotiate a use easement for the road (if you can...remember, you have to deal with all the landowners along the route, NOT TR) for hiking in and out along the road.

[SHANEA]

Patterson does it one way: his own

Mr. Patterson Goes to Washington.

[SHANEA]

How did the Christmas Mountains get their name?

"There's one particular spot (on top of the mountain) that has an absolutely beautiful view of the Chisos, the desert, the Rio Grande and Mexico," says Alida Lorio, general manager of the nearby Terlingua Property Owners Association.

Local folklore has it that an area ranch family decided to spend the Thanksgiving holidays camping in the mountains and got smacked by a freak blizzard that prevented the family from escaping until Christmas.

In 1958, Big Bend residents Virginia Madison and Hallie Stillwell co-authored How Come it's Called That?, which attempts to explain the origin of places, stories and names for the region's landmarks.

They offer two versions for the name given the mountain range: From a distance their numerous pointed peaks look very much like a growth of Christmas trees. The other version describes a family that went into the mountains to camp for the summer and didn't emerge until Christmas.

[SHANEA]

Christmas Mountains open to Big Bend visitors

Visitors would be able to hike to the mountains through Big Bend only, and could camp there, but deed restrictions prevent motorized vehicles, so activities are limited.

Hunting is still prohibited, but Mr. Patterson has said he is working on a way to allow some form of the sport in the near future. Guns aren't allowed in Big Bend unless they're dismantled.

But it doesn't solve the bigger problem, they say, of the state's unwillingness to let the National Parks Service – in their minds, the ideal stewards – take over the land simply because the parks service doesn't allow guns on their properties without a special designation.

   

[SHANEA]

Mountains for sale

Not surprisingly, some deep-pocketed Texans are willing to pay big money to own a few chunks of the earth. In a September auction for the mountains, Louis Waters, the former chairmain of waste management company Browning-Ferris Industries Inc., bid $652,000. The second-highest bidder, businessman and Houstonite John Poindexter, gave the Big Bend Gazette some eloquent words as to why he wanted own the mountains: "All anyone can do is own it and brag about owning it. It gives you Texas bragging rights; there are no commercial purposes." Unfortunately for Waters, Poindexter and Patterson, the auction was ruled void due to a technicality. Talks concerning the ownership of the mountains have since moved to Washington.

[Sophora Bean]

Below is a response Commissioner Patterson sent today to the Austin American Statesman, regarding an editorial the paper had run on Christmas Mountains April 3 (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/editorial/entries/2008/04/03/headline_christmas_joy_still_a.html?cxntfid=blogs_the_editorial_board)

I was amused by the news coverage of my letter to Superintendent Wellman. The headlines would lead one to believe I had "come to my senses" and eliminated a "roadblock." There has been no change in policy since I never said I wouldn't consider the National Park Service as an option. If that were true, why would I have two letters from the National Park Service declining my offer to convey the property to them?

At one of the very first School Land Board meetings, JP said openly  “the Christmas Mountains tract was never meant to and never will be a public park.” and on another occasion,  “the Conservation Fund never intended the mountains to be a park.”  That was when he was stubbornly adamant about it going into private hands.

It has also been shown that the "two letters from the National Park Service" were written three years ago, by a different superintendent. http://www.bigbendgazette.com/blog/_archives/2008/4/1/3614916.html

Quoting from the above article:

"Patterson later defended his comments on the Star-Telegram’s political blog where he cited the letters from the NPS by including that the letters were from ‘Then’ Superintendent John King. Patterson continued “In a recent off-the-record conversation with a local reporter, it was stated by a park official that the Christmas Mountains tract was not wanted by BBNP.”

In his remarks before the Republican Forum and on the blog, Patterson neglected to mention that the letters were written in 2005. Patterson also did not disclose the receipt by the GLO of a requested management proposal on February 1 from the National Park Service to add the Christmas Mountains to the park and manage the land as a backcountry area. In November of last year, Patterson sought the management proposal from the NPS, and in a press release stated, “I say we give parks a chance.”

State Senator John Whitmire (D-Houston) told the Gazette, “Jerry’s being Jerry. He is referring to old, several-years-old letters. He has a very attractive proposal from the National Park Service to make the Christmas Mountains part of the park. Jerry is being very dogmatic.”

[Sophora Bean]

If I am correct, why is this fact so often ignored by all concerned?

...but very few people making these comments have actually been on the ground.

The short story is that ALL the road that access the Christmas Mtns are privately owned/maintained as part of Terlingua Ranch. Now, while you likely can drive anywhere you want on these roads without anyone bothering you (after all you have to use a private road to reach the Lodge area) and thus use these roads as presumed public access, there is nowhere you can go off those roads where you are not on private property.

The main road into the TR lodge is a county road and that is why it, and it alone, is "open to the public." Beyond the lodge area, it's all private property. 

[Sophora Bean]

I also hear that the road to Lake Arnet (sp?) is going to remain open to the public.  Anyone know where this road is inside of TR?   I guess I could just stop at the lodge and ask them.  From what I read the "lake" only holds water a few months of the year and is some sort of local picnic area?   Anyone ever been there?

Seems like this could be a good deal for Terlingua Ranch.  I think it could bring more business to the lodge/cabins and help increase property values.   There will undoubtably be some old crusty hermit types who don't like the strangers coming down the roads but I think most residents will benefit from public access in several different ways.   Seems like it will be a big "selling point"... TWWG

The Lake Ament road crosses private land, ergo, not open to the public..

One irate land owner adjacent to the lake had to erect a fence across the road leading to Lake Ament dam because four-wheeling hunters and wackos were trespassing across his property to get there. He has also reportedly greeted trespassers with a gun. Wouldn't advise it...

Some of us land owners out here don't want the land values to increase because it means property taxes increase. Not everyone in the country wants the place to get popular because all the wackos from Waco or wherever will come here and try to make it like the place they left. Just what we want to see - Walmarts and quickgrabs and neon all over the place.

Pardon the sarcasm...