Showdown over packing heat in national parks

[presidio]

Chose to do what you want, wait on the police if you wish

when seconds count, the police are only minutes away..............

And, as the courts have ruled, police have no intrinsic duty to protect you individually, only society at large. Fortunately LEOs have a more personal view of service, but if they aren't there they can't do anything.

This issue is exactly like having a smoke detector in your house. The fire department will come and save you but they are never going to be there when the fire starts. Using the logic of gun control groups, no one needs a smoke detector because the fire department is the organization that provides fire 'enforcement'.

People can plan and prepare, or they can wait.

For the gun control crowd: When a fire starts in your house, do you sit in the living room waiting for the fire department to come solve your problem? After all, they are usually just minutes away. Of course not. So then, why is self defense with a firearm any different?

It isn't, but for some reason they see the threat of violence to self as somehow acceptable and are content to wait (and require everyone else to also wait) for the police to save them. This sort of mentality is very dangerous in a legislative body.

[badknees]

I have been attempting to verify the stories that are going around of citizens preventing crime with concealed handguns. So far, I have been unable to do so.

There are many, many examples of which a few are listed below.

1. Shooting at Pearl High School, Pearl Ms.
================


Monday, July 07, 2008
 

Avondale, Arizona

From ABC15 of July 7, 2008
Avondale man shoots at armed robbers trying to take his baby

An Avondale man shot at armed robbers Saturday night when they tried to take his infant during a robbery, according to a police report released Monday. The Avondale family had started to unload groceries at their home near Main Street and Litchfield Road when three men approached the car with guns and demanded money. When the victim, 52, said he didn't have any cash, one robber said, "get the baby", according to Avondale Police Sergeant Memo Espinoza. The victim pulled out a handgun and the three robbers started shooting at the man and the house. The father shot back. The robbers ran away, and one was crawling on the ground as if he had been shot, according to Espinoza. The victim and baby were not hurt in the shootout.

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Tucson, Arizona

From Tucson.com of March 8, 2006
Armed woman sends robber fleeing

A robber got some spare change and a scare when he threatened a woman in Midtown on Monday morning. The 56-year-old woman was walking near East Fort Lowell Road and North Country Club Road when a man dressed in black approached her and demanded money, said Officer Dallas Wilson, a Tucson Police Department spokesman. The robber implied he had a gun, so the woman complied with his order and gave him $1.50, hoping he would leave, Wilson said. Then, thinking her life was in danger, she drew a Smith & Wesson revolver and pointed it at the robber, who ran away. The woman — whose name was not released by police — had a concealed-weapon permit, Wilson said.
"She was in fear for her life and she defended herself appropriately," he said.

Police have no suspects in the case.

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A pizza deliveryman won't face charges for fatally shooting a would-be robber several times when he was approached in a high-crime area, but his employer, Pizza Hut, has fired him for violating a company policy against carrying firearms. Ronald B. Honeycutt, 38, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, says he's been delivering pizzas for 20 years and has always packed heat on the job. According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, prosecutors announced Friday the Carmel, Ind., man will not face criminal charges. "It's a clear case of self-defense," Deputy Prosecutor Barb Crawford said. "He did what the law allows him to do to protect himself
 
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FRANKFORT, KENTUCKY -- Joe Megerle was suspicious when a stranger approached him just after sunrise in Devou Park and asked him for the time. His suspicion turned to fear when, moments later, the man made a U-turn, stopped his car in the middle of the road and walked toward him. Megerle, a retired Cinergy worker with bad knees and a bad back, reached into his pocket and cocked the hammer on the .25-caliber pistol he carried on his morning walks. When the stranger pulled a gun from his waist band and rushed Megerle, Megerle shot first. The stranger fell at his feet. Megerle was uninjured.

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On January 28, at 3:30 a.m., a teenager entered the business office of the Spenard Motel in Anchorage, Alaska. Holding a gun to the head of the clerk, he demanded money. The robber became agitated when he didn't get the amount he wanted. The clerk, thinking he would be killed by the gunman, pulled his own handgun and shot the robber five times. The clerk was not charged. The same could not be said for the robber.

[presidio]

I have been attempting to verify the stories that are going around of citizens preventing crime with concealed handguns. So far, I have been unable to do so.

There are many, many examples of which a few are listed below.

Good summary and excellent examples. Unfortunately, the lessons are lost on those who want guns banned.

[uh_clem]

Students, Families Reeling After Teacher Is Shot To Death

[badknees]

Students, Families Reeling After Teacher Is Shot To Death

Point?

[presidio]

Students, Families Reeling After Teacher Is Shot To Death

Point?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.

[Texan4life]

I have been attempting to verify the stories that are going around of citizens preventing crime with concealed handguns. So far, I have been unable to do so.

By searching media?

My example came straight from the mouth of another Officer and a Dr. at the ER.

Sometimes the media gives the wrong information, sometimes they get the wrong information, and sometimes they never get the information at all. I understand you wanting "proof" because I am the same way. The only proof I can offer is my word.

[Texan4life]

Students, Families Reeling After Teacher Is Shot To Death

Point?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.

I think clem is trying to imply that if the teacher would not have had a concealed weapon he would have not "caused" the situation.

I understand what clem is saying, that people feel impowered by their weapon and stand and fight when they could be running away. If I have misunderstood you clem plz correct me... Bottom line is that the criminal might have killed him anyway even if he wouldn't have had a gun.

Clem I invite you to ride-out with your local Law Enforcement agency. My brother recently did and he "opened his eyes" so to speak. Bad guys are real and they do not care about your life, your family, and your laws. My Bro was blown away by the senselessness of many of the crimes that are committed, especially drug crimes, upon law abiding people.

Yes, it is a very personal decision to carry a firearm. You have to be physically and mentally prepared to use the firearm without hesitation because seconds count in a gunfight. I understand that this is a huge responsibility and that some people would rather choose to pass on it, but thank God we have that right to choose.

 
PS I am enjoying the thread clem Nothing wrong with a lil debate every now and then!

[presidio]

I have been attempting to verify the stories that are going around of citizens preventing crime with concealed handguns. So far, I have been unable to do so.

By searching media?

My example came straight from the mouth of another Officer and a Dr. at the ER.

I have a friend who recounted a personal experience. He had taken the day off and was at home in a semi-rural area. He had just taken a shower and was drying when he heard the front doorbell ring. By the time he was able to look out into the dog-run type entry (doors at both ends and the house split on either side) there was no one there. He went back into the bedroom to continue dressing and then heard someone rattling the rear door knob. Not normal.

Retrieving his 1911 Colt from atop the dresser (where it normally resided) he was just beginning to re-enter the dog run when he was greeted by a huge crash as the criminal moron kicked in the rear door. Since the s**thead wasn't expecting anyone to be home, he was even more surprised to be greeted by a 6'2" 250lb homeowner, armed with a gun he surely knew how to use.

Joe Loser found himself immediately brought down and pinned to the floor with a pistol screwed into his mouth. When the homeowner was satisfied the moron had a clear understanding that if he so much as twitched there was going to be a cleanup on aisle 3 needed, the homeowner retreated to a safe position and called 911. Upon arrival of the sheriff's dept. two more dimwits from the same gene pool were found hiding in the shrubbery outside (they had heard the shouting inside and decided they really didn't want a piece of the action).

Joe Loser came closer than he knew to being more of a statistic than he already was. My friend wouldn't have batted an eye if the need to pull the trigger occurred. These 3 criminals were perpetrating a home invasion. One or more could have been shot under fully justifiable conditions. Mr friend exercised considerable restraint. Start to finish....maybe 10 minutes from first door rattle to arrival of the deputies. That is an eternity when someone means to do you harm.

BTW, these creeps brought knives to a gunfight.

[presidio]

I think clem is trying to imply that if the teacher would not have had a concealed weapon he would have not "caused" the situation.

While I'm not clear at all about what clem is trying to imply, if that IS the implication then I will again be amazed at the mentality blaming the victim for crime because they did or didn't do something or were where they had every right to be. Somehow, the apologists conveniently overlook that the criminal is the problem.

Clem I invite you to ride-out with your local Law Enforcement agency. My brother recently did and he "opened his eyes" so to speak. Bad guys are real and they do not care about your life, your family, and your laws. My Bro was blown away by the senselessness of many of the crimes that are committed, especially drug crimes, upon law abiding people.

That is an excellent suggestion. What you will see on one of these is a far cry from the stylized drama of TV/Movies. For a real eye opener, try getting a tour of even a county jail. Either way, you will see unconscionable predators of society. Might make you want to carry 2 guns.    Even better would be to attend a citizens academy and spend more than a few hours in the underbelly of law enforcement. Not only will these experiences give you a good understanding of the difficulties of law enforcement, they will leave you with the inescapable fact that you can't depend on someone coming to save you in the nick of time.

PS I am enjoying the thread clem Nothing wrong with a lil debate every now and then!

Absolutely!

[uh_clem]

Motorist draws gun at 'Grey Poupon' question

Road rage led to Border Protection agent's killing, police say

[badknees]

Motorist draws gun at 'Grey Poupon' question

Road rage led to Border Protection agent's killing, police say

Take a look at a MUCH bigger picture.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2006.pdf

Isolated incidents as you have singled out are not at all representative of the actual crime rates of CHL holders. It doesn't take a concealed permit to do stupid s$&t like the 2 in your examples.

[Roy]

Round 1:  to the anti-gunners.  I expect this will be appealed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26144087/

[oldfatman]

Weapons are never necessary when one carries the proper TOOLS to handle their troubles.

[uh_clem]

Lufkin shooting victim hailed hero, Hudson man charged with capital murder


Man with licensed concealed handgun dies in shoot out, his attacker lives.