Big Bend Chat

Random Bits from the Outside World => Non-BIBE Trip Reports => Topic started by: RichardM on March 21, 2018, 04:53:28 PM

Title: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 21, 2018, 04:53:28 PM
About a week before Spring Break, I finally got Jennifer to commit to a destination: Grand Canyon National Park
I checked for last minute camping and lodging openings, but as there weren't many we decided to just wing it. We spent Friday night at my mother's house in Austin, then hit the road Saturday morning. We made decent time until we were around Littlefield. It was then that we received a text from my ex-wife asking if we had intended to leave behind a duffle bag full of clothes. That'd be a no. Lesson learned: always check to see if a 13 year old actually did what you asked of them. Turns out she only started to carry the bag from my bedroom to the car. Somehow it only made it to the door to the kitchen and I didn't notice it before we left. A minute or so after getting the text we came up on the Shopko store outside Littfield. I picked up a couple of shirts, but decided to hit up a WalMart later in the trip to get underwear and socks. I had a couple of days worth of clothes in my travel bag, but not enough for comfort. My shell jacket and hiking shirt were in another bag that I had loaded. Somehow Jennifer didn't neglect to load her stuff, although she did inform me that her mother had only packed her two pairs of underwear. This unplanned stop may have been a blessing in disguise. Just short of Tolar, in between Clovis and Fort Sumner, traffic suddenly came to a complete stop. We spent 30-45 minutes there waiting for a wreck to be cleared. We saw six ambulances transporting victims back to the hospital in Clovis. Three cars totalled, but I don't think there were any deaths or serious injuries. We stopped for dinner in Santa Rosa, then continued on to Albequerque to spend the night. I had booked a cheap motel during dinner via booking.com, but Jennifer did a little research on reviews and advised (more like demanded) I pick a better place. The Booking.com app wasn't cooperating with me trying to cancel, so I had to spend 10 minutes on hold waiting to talk to a live person. We ended up at a Howard Johnson's Express that was fine and only $15 more than the Rodeway Inn I had first booked. I checked out the reviews and concur with Jennifer's decision. ;)

We got a liesurely start Sunday morning and stopped off at an Academy for some headlamps and flashlights (which I never actually opened). Stopped at the WalMart in Gallup, where Jennifer commented that everyone was staring at us. Apparently not many of our color shop there. Regardless, we got our needed replacement clothes and supplies and continueed westward. I insisted on standing on a corner in Winslow, Arizona, much to Jennifer's bemusement.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29062811_2084768254897048_6586089442245607424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=2bc86ff66deb73d469bf5b6a64084ebb&oe=5B31202C)

We took the turnoff to the Meteor Crater (http://meteorcrater.com/) but didn't make it past the visitor center, as the admission prices scared us off. Had we had more time, we probably would've paid and done the full tour, but we just wanted to check it out. We also stopped at the Goodwill store in Flagstaff, where I found a decent pair of sweatpants and fleece jacket. Those came in handy while camping in sub-freezing temps. It was raining on us as we continued on towards the canyon and Jennifer said she didn't want to try camping in the National Forest where we would not have bathrooms and showers. We stopped at the Bedrock City Campground (https://www.bedrockaz.com/) in Valle where we set up our tent for a few nights at $12/night. Unfortunately they had a mechanical problem with the women's showers so Jennifer would have had to use the one in the men's room while I guarded the door. She declined. We still had enough daylight to drive into the park and stop at Mathers Point.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29104215_2085201251520415_1951670462568202240_n.jpg?oh=8dc5fb6e9b988e1e0730b66efe94bc65&oe=5B2BE640)

I think this was my second ever selfie. First was of my partially dislocated shoulder on the BBC 10th Anniversary trip, so this was a lot more pleasant.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29062649_2085219261518614_6970969905545871360_n.jpg?oh=131cd73120eb424831d60589b4a84eee&oe=5B437F51)

Dinner was pizza in Tusayan followed by a dessert frappacino and Wi-fi at the local Starbucks. We had a fitfull night in the tent, thanks to a wandering stray cat and the near-constant road noise. Our cheap sleeping bags and temps in the 20's didn't help. Not to mention that Jennifer's air mattress would only hold air about 4 hours. We hit the road early in the morning and stopped at the McDonalds in Tusayan for breakfast. Two egg McMuffins, one hash-brown, and one orange juice cost over $18. Yikes, but they know how to sock to the tourons. Lots of road construction in the park, which made getting around problematic. There were also occasional other obstructions.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214729_2091799700860570_96421332895399936_n.jpg?oh=1354a05ce50d30bd9303ceaa134e569d&oe=5B4347F3)

We drove over close to the trailhead for the South Kaibab Trail and parked at a pullout. The road to the trailhead was closed except for buses. We headed down the trail, dodging the numerous piles of mule manure and puddles.

Love this warning sign
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214987_2091799727527234_3288033550850326528_n.jpg?oh=978a9a7fb2936241391517abc501c99d&oe=5B282F29)

We made it down to Ooh Aah Point in decent time. Jennifer kept griping at me about getting too close to the edge on outcroppings. This from the kid who stood on the edge of a cliff on top of Casa Grande with her legs crossed casually. She now says she's afraid of heights.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216608_2091799844193889_7236124277114667008_n.jpg?oh=4dbfff37c6f491823dd406b687e4f2ab&oe=5B429185)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244784_2091799960860544_5048692146157125632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7a1979728edd217138d2149e124275a5&oe=5B404780)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29262025_2091800514193822_2691973097543696384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9e09d29be9bea9cd1026306dfb916ce3&oe=5B2985CF)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214215_2091806804193193_6946794251896225792_n.jpg?oh=7811c8431ff2e78885e680a202fd3f07&oe=5B3E7DB7)

I hadn't figured out how to use the panoramic mode on my cell phone camera yet, so it looks like no "money shot" from Ooh Aah Point.  :icon_rolleyes: Here's a stitch job:
(http://www.bigbendgallery.com/uploads/files/pano_GRCA_OohAah.jpg)

It's also possible I might post pictures out of order and from different areas of the canyon. Facebook is a pain with the way they strip metadata and order pictures. Update: already posted two pics that weren't from this hike.  :icon_redface: I'll put them in the followup post.

More to follow...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: badknees on March 21, 2018, 05:48:06 PM
Cool! You been holdin’ out on us?
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Casa Grande on March 21, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
Nice pics Richard!   Despite the problems,  road tripping with just you and your kid is worth it!   Glad y'all made it back ok.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88143)

Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Quatro on March 21, 2018, 06:50:09 PM
Just short of Tolar, in between Clovis and Fort Sumner, traffic suddenly came to a complete stop. We spent 30-45 minutes there waiting for a wreck to be cleared. We saw six ambulances transporting victims back to the hospital in Clovis. Three cars totalled, but I don't think there were any deaths or serious injuries. We stopped for dinner in Santa Rosa, then continued on to Albequerque to spend the night. I had booked a cheap motel during dinner via booking.com, but Jennifer did a little research on reviews and advised (more like demanded) I pick a better place. The Booking.com app wasn't cooperating with me trying to cancel, so I had to spend 10 minutes on hold waiting to talk to a live person. We ended up at a Howard Johnson's Express that was fine and only $15 more than the Rodeway Inn I had first booked. I checked out the reviews and concur with Jennifer's decision. ;)

Having done that stretch twice last week, I can believe it.  The road from Farwell to Fort Sumner is crappy.  The Hampton Inn Airport in Albuquerque worked well for us, but was difficult to find until I turned on the GPS.

Looking forward to the rest of the report.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: elhombre on March 21, 2018, 08:06:30 PM
Been to the same Walmart.  I think it is an Indian thing in the way they look at people. 

Your pictures are awesome .  We have a permit for a 6 nighter in a few weeks there, and you can bet I'm going to make sure everyone in the house gets a good look at them to get them excited too.

That warning sign should be at every corner on 6th street!
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: mule ears on March 21, 2018, 08:45:09 PM
Great stuff Richard, I had seen some of the pictures on Facebook but glad to see a report with details.  I'm with el hombre on the warning sign, one of the best I have seen!
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Cookie on March 22, 2018, 06:54:22 AM
Great trip and great pictures!! We went to Meteor Crater for the first time back in 1999. I love all things NASA and space. It was $8 per person if I remember correctly. The first time we went that way with YoungHiker, she was maybe 4 years old, we played up going to meteor crater big time. When we drove up and saw the price, $20 each, we almost turned around. We ended up paying it and having fun, but OUCH!! That's some serious cash to look at a hole in the ground. How much is it now?



Your pictures are awesome .  We have a permit for a 6 nighter in a few weeks there, and you can bet I'm going to make sure everyone in the house gets a good look at them to get them excited too.


 :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:


~Cookie
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Hang10er on March 22, 2018, 07:48:05 AM
My youngest is 12 (daughter) and I'm thinking of taking her to Big Bend this coming fall/winter.  Your trip/pics made me imagine that trip.  Thanks!!!

Oh, regarding Meteor Crater, funny how we'll pay to see something like that. I was fortunate enough to attend some training in the very secure Nevada Testing Range at Mercury, Nevada (think Area 51 stuff).  We were able to visit Sedan Crater (Area 10 I think), which while man-made by a nuclear blast, is an impressive hole at over a 1000 feet across.  Looked like a giant ant lion hole.  We got to see the Apple House and other historical sites from our nuclear program.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 22, 2018, 08:25:58 AM
Cool! You been holdin’ out on us?
Nah, just lazy.

Your pictures are awesome .  We have a permit for a 6 nighter in a few weeks there, and you can bet I'm going to make sure everyone in the house gets a good look at them to get them excited too.

That warning sign should be at every corner on 6th street!
Ha! Check out Shoshone Point either before or after your head down into the canyon. It's probably the best viewpoint without a railing and doesn't get a lot of traffic.

Great trip and great pictures!! We went to Meteor Crater for the first time back in 1999. I love all things NASA and space. It was $8 per person if I remember correctly. The first time we went that way with YoungHiker, she was maybe 4 years old, we played up going to meteor crater big time. When we drove up and saw the price, $20 each, we almost turned around. We ended up paying it and having fun, but OUCH!! That's some serious cash to look at a hole in the ground. How much is it now?
I believe it was more than what their website lists. It was going to be either $34 before tax for one adult and one junior. Whatever it was was significantly more than I was expecting. I'd fork it over if I had time to at least try to get my money's worth, but we just wanted to spend 5-10 minutes there.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: badknees on March 22, 2018, 08:46:31 AM
I checked the web page for the Meteor Crater and it was Adult $18 and Junior $16.

I was there once a really long time ago and we stopped at the cafe near the entrance road (don't know if it's still there), where part of Starman was filmed. My wife asked the waitress..."Is this where Starman was filmed?" The waitress rolled her eyes and gave an disinterested yes. Wonder how many people asked her that every day?
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 22, 2018, 04:33:45 PM
After hiking back to the car, we headed back to the Mathers Point parking lot and began a stroll along the Rim Trail to Grand Canyon Village.

These two would have probably worked better as a pano.
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249415_2091801044193769_6718048146296930304_n.jpg?oh=e54a29d13d474740abeb558e23ff1ff7&oe=5B47C1DA)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214528_2091799707527236_5072385277410934784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=efcdde76cd28f233124def51912dfc3a&oe=5B742577)

Here's a stitch of 4 pics from the same spot (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.064358,-112.113031&z=15).
(http://www.bigbendgallery.com/uploads/files/pano_GRCA_SouthRim_1.jpg)

We checked out the Geological Museum by Yavapai Point, then continued on along the rim.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244024_2091800747527132_666005992881782784_n.jpg?oh=a68a3ad5565803b9b6ba67c7ce856932&oe=5B3A88DE) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.065794,-112.119333&z=15)

We debated getting ice cream at the shop in the village, but decided to wait until after riding the shuttle bus out to Hermit's Rest and stopping at various viewpoints.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214747_2091801694193704_878541182508990464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6f1529a882905ce397a668afd303a763&oe=5B2D3DF3) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.072150,-112.148221&z=15)

Finally figured out how to enable panoramic mode on my cell phone camera.
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29257716_2091802537526953_5549276807913537536_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=180cbba96012a3f868266bd6df2b9ae4&oe=5B28F364) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071944,-112.148056&z=15)

I may not get all of the Google Map links correct. I'm not as good at multitasking as I used to be. Trying to dig out Exif info from the original images and correlate them with Facebook posted ones. For example, I can't seem to find the original for this one right now, but apparently I liked it enough to post to Facebook as a status update. This one was taken by Jennifer with her iPhone.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29258640_2091807360859804_3784599884154273792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c64fa82adf052c06673af043e2cc9272&oe=5B36042C) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.047386,-112.090461&z=15)

I also modified my first post to include a pano.

More to come...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: dkerr24 on March 23, 2018, 05:12:05 AM
Looks like a fun trip, filled with interesting things that can happen on any trip! :) 

(and unlike the sign warning against it... I have hiked from the rim to the river and back... in August!  Dumbest thing I've ever done.)

If you guys like panos, you should check out this site for Grand Canyon panos.  The owner has hiked every trail in the canyon and documented it...

http://www.gcpano.org/
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: alan in shreveport on March 23, 2018, 06:27:37 AM
I don't know if the Grand Canyon is "officially" one of the seven wonders of the world, but it should be.  Definitely worth the effort to go see. I went to school in Phoenix and we went hiking/camping there several times during that period.   
Sounds like another great father - daughter trip, and thanks for the pics.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: dkerr24 on March 23, 2018, 06:56:21 AM
And for folks who don't like crowds at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon... try the North Rim.  It receives only 10% of the visitors. 
Some of the Grand Canyon's most difficult trails start out from the North Rim.  Google 'Nankoweap Trail' for a good example.

The North Rim can be combined with a trip to Zion National Park.  Outstanding scenery there.

I've been on the North Rim in mid-Oct and had many of the lookouts all to myself.  Just don't expect to find any McDonald's over on that side.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: BlindWilly on March 23, 2018, 02:31:11 PM
I'm hoping to get up to Toroweap before it becomes more of a tourist spot.  It's on my bucket list.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Toroweap+Overlook/@36.2144451,-113.0565389,2973m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xbf89c85ea3a0327a!8m2!3d36.2144451!4d-113.0565389
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 23, 2018, 04:34:26 PM
And for folks who don't like crowds at the South Rim of the Grand Canyon... try the North Rim.  It receives only 10% of the visitors. 
Some of the Grand Canyon's most difficult trails start out from the North Rim.  Google 'Nankoweap Trail' for a good example.

The North Rim can be combined with a trip to Zion National Park.  Outstanding scenery there.

I've been on the North Rim in mid-Oct and had many of the lookouts all to myself.  Just don't expect to find any McDonald's over on that side.  :)
Agree 100%, but it's hard to get there in March. ;)

As we were about to head down the South Kaibab Trail, a fellow tourist asked if we were going all the way to the river. I jokingly replied "sure, we've got our entire water supply right here" as I put my bottle carrier around my waist. She caught on quickly and said "I see you have your first aid kit there, too!" in reference to the couple of band-aids in the mesh pouch. I think (or at least hope) I cinched up that belt a bit after this picture was taken by Jennifer. Note the uber-stylish flannel shirt bought at Shopko. :)

(http://www.bigbendgallery.com/uploads/files/GRCA_headingdownhill.jpg)

If you guys like panos, you should check out this site for Grand Canyon panos.  The owner has hiked every trail in the canyon and documented it...

http://www.gcpano.org/

Ooh, Aah in snow!!! (https://project.gcpano.org/?node=SouthKaibab.trl_OohAahPoint.pan)
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: JordanFiveOh on March 25, 2018, 03:22:26 AM
Good stuff!

I think Navajo Point/Desert View is pretty underrated for a panoramic, since you get the river from the north and the west.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180325/34092f87af153617ef26fc133893cffe.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on March 26, 2018, 07:08:17 PM
My youngest is 12 (daughter) and I'm thinking of taking her to Big Bend this coming fall/winter.  Your trip/pics made me imagine that trip.  Thanks!!!

Oh, regarding Meteor Crater, funny how we'll pay to see something like that. I was fortunate enough to attend some training in the very secure Nevada Testing Range at Mercury, Nevada (think Area 51 stuff).  We were able to visit Sedan Crater (Area 10 I think), which while man-made by a nuclear blast, is an impressive hole at over a 1000 feet across.  Looked like a giant ant lion hole.  We got to see the Apple House and other historical sites from our nuclear program.

The Nevada Test Site does a public tour once a month.

Limited to 50; reservations required. They probably are booked for the rest of the year but you can get on a wait list.

Ask when they start booking for 2019 and call early.

You'll get to see Sedan Crater, the house, and lots of other stuff.

All day tour. Free, except for your food items at the cafeteria stops.

Well worth the trip out.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: badknees on March 26, 2018, 07:28:18 PM
My youngest is 12 (daughter) and I'm thinking of taking her to Big Bend this coming fall/winter.  Your trip/pics made me imagine that trip.  Thanks!!!

Oh, regarding Meteor Crater, funny how we'll pay to see something like that. I was fortunate enough to attend some training in the very secure Nevada Testing Range at Mercury, Nevada (think Area 51 stuff).  We were able to visit Sedan Crater (Area 10 I think), which while man-made by a nuclear blast, is an impressive hole at over a 1000 feet across.  Looked like a giant ant lion hole.  We got to see the Apple House and other historical sites from our nuclear program.

The Nevada Test Site does a public tour once a month.

Limited to 50; reservations required. They probably are booked for the rest of the year but you can get on a wait list.

Ask when they start booking for 2019 and call early.

You'll get to see Sedan Crater, the house, and lots of other stuff.

All day tour. Free, except for your food items at the cafeteria stops.

Well worth the trip out.

Geiger counters provided?
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on March 26, 2018, 10:16:35 PM
Geiger counters provided?

Nope, not needed.

Extremely interesting tour.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 29, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
Here's a few more from our stroll/ride along the rim to Hermit's Rest.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214233_2091801994193674_6063702010371244032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a64b497d994543f622203f891e5edc4a&oe=5B377E09) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.073333,-112.151111&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214687_2091802440860296_6520456230224265216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=672b807704c3ebaca363892204f53c7e&oe=5B6AE120)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29217069_2091802424193631_682186745298550784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=ce157a56454b39c4a47fa7d43037e441&oe=5B298B3D) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.074167,-112.154722&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29243962_2091802607526946_8046171936822132736_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=477a8769ae73827266e004187e281044&oe=5B6BA3C5) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.074444,-112.15500&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244157_2091801124193761_7677619517547085824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b664e42895ef913370eeb9e60df094e6&oe=5B3C32E3) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.074476,-112.155021&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29261723_2091801100860430_773156416075595776_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e9e0b04175c645dfe60e9e72be70b7b0&oe=5B3E3342) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.074476,-112.155021&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216861_2091799824193891_3604677626746109952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e86870b3eb1bbca2dc81386c90fca5a2&oe=5B2ED5B8) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.074476,-112.155021&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249442_2091802154193658_4831897186490908672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=87eedf7b173a6eca659c3b68e506e417&oe=5B6EDC46) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.074167,-112.155000&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29217115_2091802554193618_5155279314454839296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=2c1b0c720560ce8478e2512b6cee4535&oe=5B359F6A) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.072500,-112.165833&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29314253_2091801454193728_2979986590731862016_n.jpg?oh=378fcb10e2651c9d42433514c9d0b254&oe=5B6E84AA) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.072544,-112.166206&z=15)

more to come...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Jalco on March 29, 2018, 09:31:58 PM
I like those first two pictures of that last set - the ones with the two people in the middle distance.  That really adds a sense of perspective to just how immense the canyon is.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 30, 2018, 04:00:51 PM
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29261117_2091801317527075_3318395860076724224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=996fa7bdaa23ba7ec7d48014d44e1d9e&oe=5B3E9C70) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.072544,-112.166206&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216702_2091801407527066_1085578019428368384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=61f01cf463025fc6accce51c56648ede&oe=5B288AC6) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071722,-112.166269&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29261811_2091800167527190_2033898702371815424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=acf09bfca79f536950e88933e2ca49b8&oe=5B3C6736) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071365,-112.166247&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214729_2091801674193706_1962360215261151232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bc4b0ee2423ab01512dbc00cfe820d62&oe=5B3F92D7) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.057996,-112.169149&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29243950_2091802657526941_2463579527155023872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4ec100689f1582efd5983dfd65e8d5f0&oe=5B3082D8) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.060589,-112.182549&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249659_2091802147526992_7268339422347657216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=681b41c8ed8a491b21a6cd08842808cf&oe=5B7130D4) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.060556,-112.182500&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214580_2091802410860299_1116633295858171904_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cd3453fbd6f60a12af4d6a569d71d49e&oe=5B6F2043) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071531,-112.200313&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214957_2091802087526998_2210999234985984000_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c1e9401c1136f0fde15cc1eeb4deabf8&oe=5B31DF5F) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071389,-112.200278&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29339979_2091801960860344_6328802011949039616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=dd635756eb1c612a0b10359a5e87259c&oe=5B2A37E9) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071389,-112.200278&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244741_2091800714193802_2242498387695894528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9b641083a52f5bd7eee441b087979c0b&oe=5B302034) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071551,-112.200450&z=15)

to be continued...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on March 30, 2018, 04:42:28 PM
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214414_2091800134193860_8135645309712728064_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a6fa8cabffe5bc02a9f5452c0908bfb8&oe=5B745BA1) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071551,-112.200450&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249358_2091800284193845_4888242351346024448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=80f488eaf6303f7b0fab024627de4d31&oe=5B3B37A8) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071737,-112.200038&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249358_2091800284193845_4888242351346024448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=80f488eaf6303f7b0fab024627de4d31&oe=5B3B37A8) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071737,-112.200038&z=15)

After making it to Hermit's Rest, we caught a shuttle bus back to the village. Our plan to wait and get ice cream turned out to have been a poor decision, as there were tons of people in line. Thanks to all of the construction and crowds, the shuttle buses were really backed up. What was supposed to be a 15 minute wait turned in to an hour or more. After finally getting back to our car, we stopped by the in-park grocery store/market for some snacks (including much cheaper ice cream bars), then headed over to the showers by Mather Campground. Two bucks for 8 minutes of hot water. Money well spent. We then headed back to the Bedrock City campground and struck camp, rather messily I might add. We were racing the sunset and just stuffed everything in the car. I checked out and got a night's refund, then we drove up to the fire road that the NPS recommends for NFS dispersed camping. Found a nice spot and I set the tent up in the dark. Jennifer almost helped.  :icon_rolleyes:

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29196223_2087784344595439_3728440906131439616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=596147d3819f044ecfacde082c8d8dea&oe=5B37B9E2) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=35.939343,-112.130912&z=15)
(and yes, I know better than to leave the ground cloth not tucked under the tent, but I just didn't care)

In the morning I took down the tent by my self, as Jennifer flatly refused to even fake an attempt at helping. I think aluminum tent poles after a night around freezing are one of the coldest things ever. They just seem to suck the heat from your hands. Should've dug some gloves out of the car, but I'm stubborn that way.

We drove down in to Tusayan and had a nice dinner at the Mexican restaurant before returning to camp. Camping in the NFS was so much more peaceful. Nearest neighbors were 50 yards away and they were quiet. We could have gone farther down the road and been much more secluded, but Jennifer picked this spot. Temps were a bit more moderate, as it only got down to 30 or so. It also sprinkled a bit at one point. The highlight of the night was some elk bugling at around 4:30AM. If you've never heard it before, it is super freaky. We also confirmed that Jennifer's air mattress would indeed only hold air for about 4 hours. We dropped it off in the trash outside the McDonald's on the way in to the park. We had breakfast at the cafe inside the market, which was not only much better than McD's, but about half the price. Lesson learned.

We stopped by Mathers Point again. I had wanted to do some more panos, now that I knew hot to use the cell phone camera a little better, but finding a spot at the rail was difficult. We gave up and drove down to the trailhead for Shoshone Point. The hike in is through a lovely stand of tall pines and is on a smooth dirt road/path. Lots of birds in the trees. There were four women that started a minute or two before us, but after we passed them we never saw them again. We had the Point all to ourselves.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216909_2091807520859788_5310071327372083200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=755402da2e5b71dd9c175f275d0e4be5&oe=5B3256E4) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.045828,-112.058860&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216672_2091801867527020_943051028654194688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a0e07f4680d1f6172db3d89daf9770bb&oe=5B2CC816)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216431_2091802024193671_7076095483587854336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=107aff78be30af9e9a9c6e3913e67f86&oe=5B7565CA)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29217104_2091801817527025_5897503105481703424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4b146f28cde2154f804d33e5e6afef56&oe=5B6D659F)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216289_2091807384193135_4791362766914977792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e302cf4bf7d30817e79e227b72a6beac&oe=5B28EBCB)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216673_2091807827526424_1334375197028909056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=86fd5bf522205568715b0fdba14de2ee&oe=5B2743D5)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214502_2091807670859773_3771853950228103168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cda493368e3eb5c04aedf5b970fcc864&oe=5B36879E)

On the way back to the car we passed 4-5 small groups of people. Looks like we timed it right.

more to come...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on March 30, 2018, 06:13:05 PM
then headed over to the showers by Mather Campground. Two bucks for 8 minutes of hot water.

That is significantly better than the $2 for 5 minutes at RGV.


Quote
then we drove up to the fire road that the NPS recommends for NFS dispersed camping. Found a nice spot and I set the tent up in the dark.

Good to see you visiting and using real public land. Will you be doing more of that?

Also it's so very special to see the NPS direct you to some place other than their park, where you can do things they won't let you do in their domain. Says a lot about access and usability in both realms. The NPS is completely tone deaf to the juxtaposition.


Quote
Camping in the NFS was so much more peaceful. Nearest neighbors were 50 yards away and they were quiet.

Merely one of many benefits of not going into NPS areas.


Quote
I had wanted to do some more panos, ... but finding a spot at the rail was difficult. 

Thronged with tourists? So typical of NPS areas. [paraphasing The Sound of Silence]: probably all of them "looking without seeing."
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Talusman on March 30, 2018, 07:10:07 PM
Damn! Fudge! Those are some really great photos and they do not do the real sight justice I know. What a freaking great trip Richard, especially sharing that with your daughter. What a great bonding experience. I'm so jealous. Congrats!
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Lance on March 31, 2018, 07:59:21 PM
Nice report Richard. Jennifer is getting so big. Time flies..
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on April 03, 2018, 05:17:35 PM
After leaving Shoshone Point, we continued East to the Tusayan Ruins and museum. No pictures, I'm afraid, but it was a cool stop. We then headed to the Desert View Watchtower and snack bar. Finally got our ice cream!

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249473_2091806967526510_6794475869558538240_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c229527a0a92ab829c8b8ecbc363bd0b&oe=5B3AB468)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214374_2091807860859754_617698245140807680_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6691a59ba1cf28ce96ff55b12333bada&oe=5B317901)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216128_2091807544193119_8577027081404153856_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e21cff03e3f5a356b64c98a6c49fcccc&oe=5B673067)

We left the park and continued Eastward. We stopped at the Little Colorado River Gorge Overlook (url=https://www.google.com/maps?q=35.919477,-111.563247&z=15]location[/url]). Jennifer declined to even get out of the car. I couldn't even talk her into checking out the Navajo jewelry and pottery tables. At least her apathy saved me some money.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29258213_2091807810859759_4302711448452202496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=fefbc448e7c40ffd60ab5e220b867140&oe=5B63E9EB)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29339474_2091807947526412_3762019407128166400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=09a64f858b756aa55a90d7d2f1d94092&oe=5B39661E)

Since we were in the area, Jennifer wanted to stop at Four Corners. Who knew it had a closing time?

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249958_2088504094523464_2427780266073260032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e6492ec37def6cdeb2eb392b7ace4500&oe=5B6E110D)
Park's closed. Moose out front should 've told ya.

I consoled her by informing her it's not the "real" four corners anyway, just the one they put up for tourists. We carried on towards Mesa Verde N.P.

more later...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on April 03, 2018, 06:21:17 PM
I consoled her by informing her it's not the "real" four corners anyway, just the one they put up for tourists.

Actually, it is not a tourist thing at all (though the site is a genuine tourist trap).

The monument is real, and the four states most certainly meet there, but is inaccurately surveyed (due to technology limitations of the time). Way too late now to fix it. The error occurred in the 1860s/1870s and is about 1,800' off.

Want to know more? See https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/INFO/fourcorners.shtml

There is a similar error (but not for the same reason) along the entire eastern New Mexico border with Texas. Texas was given too much land to the west by about two miles. If you look at the NM/OK border, that line correctly is located and should have been projected south, but clumsy surveyors (not limitations of technology) placed the Texas line too far west.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Casa Grande on April 03, 2018, 06:25:03 PM
There is a similar error (but not for the same reason) along the entire eastern New Mexico border with Texas. Texas was given too much land to the west by about two miles. If you look at the NM/OK border, that line correctly is located and should have been projected south, but clumsy surveyors (not limitations of technology) placed the Texas line too far west.

Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88143)
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on April 03, 2018, 06:28:06 PM
Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

You'll find that New Mexicans don't share your enthusiasm about the situation.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Casa Grande on April 03, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

You'll find that New Mexicans don't share your enthusiasm about the situation.
Yeah, but so?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88143)

Moderator Note: Ok, boys, don't make me moderate my own topic... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on April 04, 2018, 05:12:49 PM
We drove through Cortez and continued on to Mesa Verde National Park. The Visitors Center and toll booth station were already closed for the day when we got there, so we got in free.  :eusa_dance: We drove up to the fire lookout at Park Point to check out the views.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244605_2091807680859772_455425107863535616_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=86dd687cfe676e8358602cddaab7901d&oe=5B31B879)

Sunset was pretty anticlimactic, except for some good light on the  San Juans. It was a lot better just before I was able to get the camera out. ;)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186831_2088527324521141_1405444720955490304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=40d7f1656a0aa231acb813a64bf12971&oe=5B68D823)

It was too late in the day to check any of the rest of the park, so we headed back to Cortez and got a room at a motel and had dinner. The next morning we headed back to the park, this time paying the $15 entrance fee.

Had this not been a spur-of-the moment decision to go to the park, I would have done some research in advance. As it was I was unable to get the park's website to load when using mobile data and didn't get to see the notice (https://www.nps.gov/meve/planyourvisit/conditions.htm) that there was no access to any of the cliff dwellings. Once again, the moose should'a told us.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29257974_2093115634062310_3988058343301185536_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9f81cd3d69fdefaa86754defbb328b45&oe=5B740900)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29186542_2090237861016754_6487727887939010560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=87035cd17c36ebea440d2f30c29607f9&oe=5B6BD594)

Other than a quick drive through the campground in the park, we gave up sightseeing and headed back to Texas. Drove through Durango and Santa Fe, but Jennifer didn't want to get out of the car at either place for additional shopping, sightseeing, etc. Spent the night in Clovis NM at the Quality Inn. Only thing of interest there was the sign in the lobby saying they no longer rent to locals. Apparently the air force peeps were renting rooms to party in and kept trashing them. :icon_rolleyes:

Up next was a few days with family, in Merkel, Abilene, and Austin before making it back to Friendswood Sunday morning. Total mileage was over 3100, with somewhere between 55 and 60 hours spent in the car.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: RichardM on April 04, 2018, 05:38:25 PM
Here are some random pics taken by Jennifer.

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249336_2091806927526514_3575131168032423936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=546ef8ae4a0622a196cd166f7ddbd8fc&oe=5B61686D) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.059842,-112.106500&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216822_2091806860859854_8677396081950064640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=49c3dad6e852f93550d9ada47c180243&oe=5B370743) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.061497,-112.087075&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29216488_2091807057526501_4739838780159033344_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6d4cfed784793bfe00559d833a87d0a5&oe=5B3731F4) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.063208,-112.111267&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29313865_2091807147526492_1894836504664997888_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=41ec8b6cc0bc02ec6a9b78894ff4fe17&oe=5B61D093) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.064383,-112.112961&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29214891_2091807687526438_6806495932536848384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bdbb7c1f5201b2ae505ade0dcc6e9775&oe=5B2ECD02) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.064383,-112.112961&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29258505_2091807560859784_8883702924752977920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e61e41046dfd1f38ce9353229fcc8188&oe=5B36BAC2) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.071647,-112.148619&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244334_2091807407526466_2284896913272602624_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cd02f14aa565f72be0b0eb118e7ee8d0&oe=5B6B230A) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.044542,-112.058961&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29258250_2091806637526543_160198088252719104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=8cd54068a1dda267837e14330ee47530&oe=5B67A3C5) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.044575,-112.058967&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249743_2091806630859877_3586334714778091520_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=721dcc81e098b567174b0129dfb55688&oe=5B2BE325) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.045175,-112.059381&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249680_2091806750859865_7713814310757072896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=db2ee47e6dc6d8ad605cb0539d94bcff&oe=5B68C65F) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.045806,-112.058900&z=15)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29249809_2091806794193194_9137378807244652544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=21f35bca9a93998cb8966eb163477cff&oe=5B63DD2A) location (https://www.google.com/maps?q=36.044150,-112.826203&z=15)

Jennifer getting to know Rooster (Lab, Catahoula, Husky mix).
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29244748_2091806644193209_5478154988465160192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1f43dac4cc9ce2992b3882c0495f12c6&oe=5B331E79)

...and getting reacquainted with Cheyenne (Lab and Husky or maybe Malamute mix).
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29339560_2093124010728139_4639578876077408256_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e00a09bf4d02ee0d289f890c84bdc37b&oe=5B677CC2)

Overall, a great road trip!

P.S. The attached photo is from an antique store in Brady. Jennifer wasn't as amused as I was.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Txlj on April 11, 2018, 07:34:56 PM
Thanks for posting. The wife and I are thinking of making this same trip in October.

sent from flatland

Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: mbender on April 12, 2018, 06:09:08 PM
There is a similar error (but not for the same reason) along the entire eastern New Mexico border with Texas. Texas was given too much land to the west by about two miles. If you look at the NM/OK border, that line correctly is located and should have been projected south, but clumsy surveyors (not limitations of technology) placed the Texas line too far west.

Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88143)

 :eusa_clap:  :dance:  :great:  :celebrate:

Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: mbender on April 12, 2018, 06:11:27 PM
Thanks for the report and a terrific collection of photos!

Some day.... I will see it for myself... some day...
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on April 12, 2018, 07:26:57 PM
Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!

Wishful thinking at best.

However, there IS a line in TX that should have been pushed EAST a long time ago.

That would be the Central/Mountain time zone line.

Big Bend ought to be in the Mountain Time Zone. If it was the sun would rise at a reasonable time in the morning, and it properly would be included in the mountain west.

I've always been baffled at what purpose is served by the Central Time Zone extending so far west in TX.

It has to be some warped political decision, as there is no apparent economic reason nor benefit for the present layout. Every place north of west TX is in the mountain zone.

El Paso and GUMO are on mountain time. It is further baffling why this tiny slice was put (but properly) in the mountain zone.

It can be changed and in the case of GUMO it was. The zone line initially split the park right down the middle. It was moved east to put the entire park in the mountain zone.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: Jonathan Sadow on July 21, 2018, 02:48:37 AM
Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!

Wishful thinking at best.

However, there IS a line in TX that should have been pushed EAST a long time ago.

That would be the Central/Mountain time zone line.

Big Bend ought to be in the Mountain Time Zone. If it was the sun would rise at a reasonable time in the morning, and it properly would be included in the mountain west.

I've always been baffled at what purpose is served by the Central Time Zone extending so far west in TX.

It has to be some warped political decision, as there is no apparent economic reason nor benefit for the present layout. Every place north of west TX is in the mountain zone.

El Paso and GUMO are on mountain time. It is further baffling why this tiny slice was put (but properly) in the mountain zone.

It can be changed and in the case of GUMO it was. The zone line initially split the park right down the middle. It was moved east to put the entire park in the mountain zone.

Technically, GUMO is still in the Central Time Zone;  however, the park unofficially observes Mountain Time, probably because that puts it in the same time zone as Carlsbad Caverns National Park and the administrative office for both in Carlsbad.  This is an endless source of confusion to park visitors, whose cell phones often hit towers running on Central Time and thus think the time is one hour later than what is observed in the park.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on July 21, 2018, 03:59:00 PM
Technically, GUMO is still in the Central Time Zone;  however, the park unofficially observes Mountain Time, probably because that puts it in the same time zone as Carlsbad Caverns National Park and the administrative office for both in Carlsbad.

Maybe. Who knows? Some years ago I saw a detailed map of where the time zone boundary ran in the vicinity of the park, but cannot now find it. That map implied a legal change to the boundary location, but I also cannot locate any references that such has officially occurred.

However, that map had an interesting layout as the line was immediately east of US 62/180 and turned west (running north of 62/180) in the flats below Guad peak until intersecting the Hudspeth county line, where it turned south. While not marked on the highway, if driving to El Paso you briefly left the MTZ and reentered the CTZ.

Regarding time zones, as I have noted in the past, it makes zero sense for Big Bend to be in the Central time zone. No apparent political or economic interest is served by staying in the CTZ and no detrimental effects would occur if it properly were placed in the MTZ, which is logically where it belongs. Moving the line would eliminate sunrise and sunset being quite obviously out of sync with the latitude (as long as we continue to play the time zone game...see below).

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This is an endless source of confusion to park visitors, whose cell phones often hit towers running on Central Time and thus think the time is one hour later than what is observed in the park.

A genuine first-world problem. Before mobile phones, no one paid much attention to this "problem" and life went on. You either knew where you were and what time it was, or you didn't, and you either were on time for things or not.

If you want to be totally confused, and bang the hell out of your mobile phone swapping times, take a particular drive through NE Arizona.

This route carefully was selected to maximize the number of changes due to a peculiarity of the Hopi/Navajo boundaries. With respect to this situation, the Hopi reservation is completely surrounded by the Navajo rez; however, a tiny piece of Navajo is completely surrounded by Hopi and, while shown on detailed maps, is a factoid oblivious to many.

Arizona and the Hopi do not observe DST
The Navajo and Utah use DST

Roads are AZ 77, AZ 264, US 160 and US 87

Start in Holbrook AZ on I-40 and go north on AZ 77 onto the Navajo reservation, into the Hopi Pueblo, into the Navajo portion surrounded by Hopi,  back onto Hopi, across a short piece of Navajo, back onto a Hopi outlier, into Navajo for the last time, off the rez into Page and cross into Utah northwest of Page on US 87.

Using 10 am (and assuming you do all this within an hour so as to make it simple), here is what you will find as a result of that damned daylight savings time:

Holbrook, 10 am
Navajo rez, 11 am
Hopi rez, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Hopi, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Hopi, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Page, 10 am
Utah, 11 am

A mere nine! (9) time changes in a distance of  235 miles. Does anyone do these changes? Of course not. In fact, some of it doesn't even register on mobile phones, but it all exists.

Generally, it affects no one other than the locals, who are well-versed in what time it is and when openings/closings occur.

This extreme example illustrates how idiotic and unnecessary is DST; it should be legislated out of existence, as Arizona and Hawaii very wisely have done on their own. However, there are politicians (I believe Rubio is one) who want to make DST a permanent year round event. As comedian Chris Rock intoned in his video "How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police" the only phrase that comes to mind is "that's just ignorant."

Actually, there long has been two proposals which would solve a lot of problems, but are unlikely to ever happen.

The first is to put the US on only two time zones, with no DST: Eastern and Western. The line would be where the current CTZ/MTZ line is (that proposal does not change the idiocy of the west TX situation. One variant has the zones separated by one hour; another has a two hour separation. Either would be an improvement.

The other, far more logical solution, is to put the entire planet on Universal Time (UTC), with no time zones. Undoubtedly, those that go to work at 8am and then find themselves going to work at 5pm would be resistant due to an inability to accept change. Actually, UTC runs on a 24 hr clock, so the problem of which o'clock it is is forever eliminated, and you would go to work at 1700 hrs instead of 0800.

UTC (erroneously and frequently called 'military' or 'scientific' time) is just a much simpler system. Folks can get used to anything (unless they are Luddites...as we are with the metric system in the US). Aviation, communications, international interests, NIST clocks and a myriad (or perhaps a plethora) of others run on UTC even if you don't see it. UTC makes the most sense and eliminates the issue of what time it is anywhere. Yeah, the sun might rise at 1500 hrs in Big Bend, but once you stop having to change clocks due to latitude or DST, everything becomes so much simpler. Even the haters would learn to like in short order.

Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day.


Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: badknees on July 21, 2018, 04:38:27 PM
Quote
Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day

To emphasize your point on UTC, the BBC forum and most modern networks run on UTC. The displayed time is an setup option. The underlying is UTC.

Getting everyone to live their daily lives communicating UTC might be a stretch, but a 24 hour clock is a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
Post by: presidio on July 21, 2018, 06:05:35 PM
Quote
Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day

To emphasize your point on UTC, the BBC forum and most modern networks run on UTC. The displayed time is an setup option. The underlying is UTC.

Getting everyone to live their daily lives communicating UTC might be a stretch, but a 24 hour clock is a no-brainer.

Most of Europe runs on the 24 hr clock. So should we, but attempting a wholesale change likely would fail as pathetically as the metric push. But, through international trade and manufacturing, SI increasingly is pushing the fractional/English/SAE/inch (no one really knows what to call it)  scheme into the dustbin of history. Perhaps the same thing will happen with time as the digital world continues to expand.

Every clock I have that can be set to 24 hr display, is. My cheap Timex digital watch is set to local time and the alternate view is UTC.

I know a few highly educated folks who simply cannot seem to convert PM times to the 24 hour clock (or vice versa) without angst and stress, and sometimes a refusal to even try. The fact that you merely add or subtract 12 hrs is a skill lost on them. It drives them to distraction when I say or write 24 hr times. They want me to do the conversion for them; I tell them to do the math.