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Clean Air Act and Big Bend

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Offline Quatro

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Offline Txlj

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 04:34:26 AM »
Most of The Bends pollution comes from Mexico and the west coast I believe. 

Sent from flat land


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Offline mule ears

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 07:23:15 AM »
Most of The Bends pollution comes from Mexico and the west coast I believe. 

Sent from flat land

Not really, I remember some past studies that surprised folks that most came from the US.  Here is the TEQ page with past trajectories showing where the air came from that last 48 hrs.
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

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Offline badknees

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 08:08:30 AM »
Most of The Bends pollution comes from Mexico and the west coast I believe. 

Sent from flat land

Not really, I remember some past studies that surprised folks that most came from the US.  Here is the TEQ page with past trajectories showing where the air came from that last 48 hrs.

FROM THE BRAVO REPORT (Big Bend Regional Aerosol and Visibility Observational (BRAVO) )

The BRAVO study involved a four month intensive monitoring period from July through October 1999, followed by a four-year data
analysis and modeling effort examining the BRAVO data and past data collected at Big Bend NP.

On average, during the BRAVO period (1999 study) U.S. sources were responsible for about 55% of
Big Bend’s particulate sulfate,
with the eastern U.S. responsible for about 30% and
eastern Texas contributing about 17%.

Mexican sources, including the Carbón power plant, were responsible for about 38% of
Big Bend’s particulate sulfate.

At 20%, the Carbón power plant in Mexico is the single largest point source contributor
to Big Bend’s sulfate haze during the BRAVO study period.

At any given time during the BRAVO study, over half of the sulfate haze can come from
eastern U.S., eastern Texas, or Mexican sources.

On the clear days Mexico and the western U.S. were the largest contributors during the
BRAVO study.

Throughout the year airmasses en route to Big Bend frequently reside over Mexico, in
particular northern Mexico.

 Airflow from eastern Texas and the eastern U.S. is most frequent during late summer and
fall months during the period with the greatest contribution to haze by particulate sulfate
compounds.

 Airflow from the western U.S. to Big Bend is greatest in the winter months when haze
levels at the park are lowest.

The highest sulfate haze periods during BRAVO were associated with low-speed and
low-level transport from the eastern U.S., eastern Texas, and northeastern Mexico.

 The lowest sulfate haze periods during BRAVO were associated with higher-speed
transport from the Gulf of Mexico along the Mexican/Texas border to Big Bend, from the
north, and from the western U.S.
Not all those who wander are lost.
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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 09:47:13 AM »
Most of The Bends pollution comes from Mexico and the west coast I believe. 

Sent from flat land

Not really, I remember some past studies that surprised folks that most came from the US.  Here is the TEQ page with past trajectories showing where the air came from that last 48 hrs.

FROM THE BRAVO REPORT (Big Bend Regional Aerosol and Visibility Observational (BRAVO) )

The BRAVO study involved a four month intensive monitoring period from July through October 1999, followed by a four-year data
analysis and modeling effort examining the BRAVO data and past data collected at Big Bend NP.

On average, during the BRAVO period (1999 study) U.S. sources were responsible for about 55% of
Big Bend’s particulate sulfate,
with the eastern U.S. responsible for about 30% and
eastern Texas contributing about 17%.

Mexican sources, including the Carbón power plant, were responsible for about 38% of
Big Bend’s particulate sulfate.

At 20%, the Carbón power plant in Mexico is the single largest point source contributor
to Big Bend’s sulfate haze during the BRAVO study period.

At any given time during the BRAVO study, over half of the sulfate haze can come from
eastern U.S., eastern Texas, or Mexican sources.

On the clear days Mexico and the western U.S. were the largest contributors during the
BRAVO study.

Throughout the year airmasses en route to Big Bend frequently reside over Mexico, in
particular northern Mexico.

 Airflow from eastern Texas and the eastern U.S. is most frequent during late summer and
fall months during the period with the greatest contribution to haze by particulate sulfate
compounds.

 Airflow from the western U.S. to Big Bend is greatest in the winter months when haze
levels at the park are lowest.

The highest sulfate haze periods during BRAVO were associated with low-speed and
low-level transport from the eastern U.S., eastern Texas, and northeastern Mexico.

 The lowest sulfate haze periods during BRAVO were associated with higher-speed
transport from the Gulf of Mexico along the Mexican/Texas border to Big Bend, from the
north, and from the western U.S.

Once again, thank you, BK for linking to the research. You are our resident science reference librarian.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline badknees

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 10:31:20 AM »
Welcome. I had this one in my saved files
Not all those who wander are lost.
– J.R.R. Tolkien

Through the Mirror
http://mirrormagic.com

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Offline catz

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 10:58:50 AM »

Haziness comes and goes naturally and has for millenia.  That coal burning might contribute to it is not proven.
Wake me when it's time to go.

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Offline Txlj

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 11:37:11 AM »
I stand corrected gentlemen. But, it looks like I might have been half correct? Fact remains, blue skies and The Bend are thing of beauty and should remain that way.

Sent from flat land


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Offline Flash

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 09:22:32 PM »
I have been there when Sahara Desert dust had blown in and caused a soft focus effect when taking in the view from the South Rim.

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Offline mediopelo

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 11:37:29 PM »
I don't know if it is true but I was told at the time that during the 1999 monitoring period the Carbon 4 plant in Mexico was importing high-grade American coal by the trainload and stopped as soon as monitoring ceased.

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Offline marufo

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 08:54:27 AM »
Quote
Haziness comes and goes naturally and has for millenia.  That coal burning might contribute to it is not proven.

LOL. There's this thing called science. It's true that one of the cool things about science is that it acknowledges that knowledge is never perfect and that there is rarely such a thing as 100% certainty. But if, as the BRAVO study did, you take the measurable, quantifiable, i.e. factual, variations in SO2 emissions from known point sources (i.e. coal-burning plants) and combine that with the measurable, quantifiable, i.e. factual, wind and weather conditions at that time, and correlate that with the measurable, quantifiable, i.e. factual variation in SO2 concentrations at Big Bend, and (drum roll...) what do you know, they match up! - that sure sounds like pretty good proof to me.

Here's a link http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.462.8648&rep=rep1&type=pdf to a paper that goes into extensive discussion of the science behind that commonsense conclusion, including honest acknowledgements of the uncertainties involved. It's filled with sciency and mathy stuff like "regression analysis" that is no doubt just a smokescreen by the "elites" who actually know math and science to make people question the revealed truths of FOX "news".

OK, I got a little snarky there and I apologize. If you're on Big Bend Chat you love the Big Bend too and I'd much rather focus on the things we agree on. And I know that politics is not the focus of this board. But I am just so dumbfounded by the way so many people are willing to dismiss and denigrate the intellectual achievements based on science and math that have made possible the computers and internet without which this board wouldn't even be possible.

And, for what it's worth, it's not necessarily a left/right thing. I live in Terlingua and a scary number of folks I know are politically liberal and also believe they can sense auras, or remember past lives, or believe in the healing power of crystals. And then there are the anti-vaxxers...

But back to that study, here is the (appropriately qualified) conclusion:

Quote
There is no simple answer to the question of what sources are responsible for the sulfate haze at Big Bend NP; sources in both the United States and Mexico are responsible. Mexican SO2 emissions contribute to the sulfate haze more frequently, but to generate the highest sulfate and haze events that occur in the late summer and fall, contributions from Texas and the Eastern United States must also occur. The largest individual contributor to the sulfate at Big Bend during BRAVO was the Carbon facilities in Northern Mexico. Substantial changes in emissions from those facilities would reduce sulfate levels at Big Bend and likely result in small but noticeable changes in haze on many days; however, this would only make a small difference to the worst haze episodes during late summer and early fall. To substantially affect all of the sulfate and haze episodes during the late summer and fall when U.S. contributions to Big Bend are large would require SO2 emission changes in both Texas and the Eastern United States. Although the Eastern United States contributed nearly twice as much sulfate to Big Bend compared with Texas, Eastern U.S. emissions are ~14 times larger than those in Texas. Therefore, larger absolute emission
reduction would be required from the Eastern United States compared with Texas for commensurate reductions in sulfate.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 03:07:02 PM by RichardM »

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Offline catz

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 10:58:04 AM »

But, but...that means we might have to actually do something about it.  I can't be bothered.
Wake me when it's time to go.

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Offline marufo

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 11:54:16 AM »
Catz, I'm sorry if I missed any intended sarcasm in your first post. Either way, thanks for the chance to rant.

Cue the anthropogenic climate change deniers in 3...2...1...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 12:10:36 PM by marufo »

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 02:28:34 PM »
Cue the anthropogenic climate change deniers in 3...2...1...

Anthropogenic haziness is, by definition, almost incapable of recognizing itself.   ;)
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline venchka

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Clean Air Act and Big Bend
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2017, 05:00:55 PM »
Catz, I'm sorry if I missed any intended sarcasm in your first post. Either way, thanks for the chance to rant.

Cue the anthropogenic climate change deniers in 3...2...1...
You opened the door.
Please define: Climate.
Seriously. I studied Climatology in a previous lifetime. I have recently read a vastly different definition of climate online than what I learned way back when.
Thanks.
Wayne


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Wayne
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