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You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...

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Offline dprather

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 01:27:22 PM »



.  We've forgotten that we are animals too, and also need to be subject to the Darwinian processes that keep species viable.  It may seem insensitive, but the reality of progress is that stupid people need to die early.  We certainly shouldn't endeavor to kill them, but at least let them be subject to natural selection. 

Perhaps the most callous thought ever expressed on this board.

"You might be able to avoid reality, but you can't avoid the results of reality."

Your thoughts are not callous because they do not advocate intentional harm.  You are just stating the obvious. 

The alternative is callous, and dangerous - especially in its ultimate extensions.  Maintaining nonviable individuals is at the same time a drain on those who maintain them and a false promise to those who are maintained (and who cannot be maintained forever).

Any Rand argued against altruism because she viewed maintaining the nonviable as the sacrifice of the capable and successful to the inept and bound-to-fail.

Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline Keepa

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 01:39:11 PM »
Whether you legally own the land in a national forest or are just renting it is not germane to the point, which is that people live (i.e., have domiciles) in national forests. I see it all the time. I was in George Washington National Forest a couple of weeks ago and there were two or three homes (plus land) for sale.

A few years ago I looked into purchasing land in national forests, specifically about what rules and regulations private owners must follow. It's quite interesting.

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Offline jim2

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 02:43:44 PM »



.  We've forgotten that we are animals too, and also need to be subject to the Darwinian processes that keep species viable.  It may seem insensitive, but the reality of progress is that stupid people need to die early.  We certainly shouldn't endeavor to kill them, but at least let them be subject to natural selection. 

Perhaps the most callous thought ever expressed on this board.

"You might be able to avoid reality, but you can't avoid the results of reality."

Your thoughts are not callous because they do not advocate intentional harm.  You are just stating the obvious. 

The alternative is callous, and dangerous - especially in its ultimate extensions.  Maintaining nonviable individuals is at the same time a drain on those who maintain them and a false promise to those who are maintained (and who cannot be maintained forever).

Any Rand argued against altruism because she viewed maintaining the nonviable as the sacrifice of the capable and successful to the inept and bound-to-fail.
This is a Let me play God discussion, who lives, who dies and very violate. I'm going to step away.

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Offline dprather

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2018, 05:26:08 PM »



.  We've forgotten that we are animals too, and also need to be subject to the Darwinian processes that keep species viable.  It may seem insensitive, but the reality of progress is that stupid people need to die early.  We certainly shouldn't endeavor to kill them, but at least let them be subject to natural selection. 

Perhaps the most callous thought ever expressed on this board.

"You might be able to avoid reality, but you can't avoid the results of reality."

Your thoughts are not callous because they do not advocate intentional harm.  You are just stating the obvious. 

The alternative is callous, and dangerous - especially in its ultimate extensions.  Maintaining nonviable individuals is at the same time a drain on those who maintain them and a false promise to those who are maintained (and who cannot be maintained forever).

Any Rand argued against altruism because she viewed maintaining the nonviable as the sacrifice of the capable and successful to the inept and bound-to-fail.
This is a Let me play God discussion, who lives, who dies and very violate. I'm going to step away.
We would all "play God"if we found someone in desperate straits on the trail.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline iCe

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2018, 06:09:31 PM »
We would all "play God"if we found someone in desperate straits on the trail.


Or if a parent of someone lost the same way, at least sing a different song. It's not the NPS fault. It's the hikers fault. But I'm glad his parents haven't read this post.


I for one have done some stupid sh*t in my life. I survived it but it was still stupid sh*t so I didn't repeat it... uh... except there was this girl... never mind  :eusa_eh:


I still have range of motion issues in one shoulder (motorcycle) and always will, a hip that occasionally seeks a different socket for the ball (snow skiing), a deviated septum(passenger in a car that hit a loaded gravel truck when I wasn't wearing a seatbelt and I slapped my face against my watch and the windshield. Who'd have thought that throwing your arms up right before impact wouldn't protect me?... etc, etc. 


If you haven't done something stupid and survived... you are one incredibly boring person...

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Offline Txlj

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2018, 06:14:33 PM »
Agreed. God knows how many stupid things I have done. I just believe in my own personal opinion, we as a society should not expect the government to save us from ourselves. I have been helped myself and will help others till the day I die.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Big Bend Chat mobile app


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Offline iCe

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2018, 06:17:48 PM »
Agreed. God knows how many stupid things I have done. I just believe in my own personal opinion, we as a society should not expect the government to save us from ourselves. I have been helped myself and will help others till the day I die.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Big Bend Chat mobile app



I'd like to think that everyone is like that, but I am required to use adult thinking at my age  :icon_lol: 


And... society definitely needs to stop expecting the govt to save us from ourselves...

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Offline wigfall

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2018, 01:16:55 PM »
Quote
the extensive single-family housing (real residential structures) that is dedicated to permanent concession employees living full time in a national park
Other parks may be different, but from personal experience in Big Bend, I think perhaps you may not realize the degree to which non-NPS residents (especially concessions) are treated as second-class citizens. This may have changed, but 15 years ago there was one single-family residence for the general manager of concessions. The two assistant managers shared a duplex, and most other employees lived in two-bedroom one-bath trailers (and we're definitely talking single-wide). Single employees were four to a trailer. The newest constructed concession housing at that time was a dorm with two floors. Each floor had eight employees sharing four bedrooms, two baths, and one kitchen/living area. Of course there's no way NPS employees would put up with that, but it was good enough for concessions... There have been a number of single-family residences built since then, but not for concessions employees that I'm aware of.

You do relize that it is not the tax payer that does the consesion housing but in fact your employer that does your housing. If forevr resort or whoever it was 15 years ago, chooses not to provide good housing it is on them, not the tax pay public. It's a contract operation.

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Offline marufo

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2018, 02:43:41 PM »
Quote
You do relize that it is not the tax payer that does the consesion housing but in fact your employer that does your housing. If forevr resort or whoever it was 15 years ago, chooses not to provide good housing it is on them, not the tax pay public. It's a contract operation.
I'm well aware that it is the concession that provides the housing. The issue is that NPS has to approve any new building in the park, and they are hypocritical about minimizing development for everyone but themselves.

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Offline presidio

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2018, 09:45:49 PM »

We've forgotten that we are animals too, and also need to be subject to the Darwinian processes that keep species viable.  It may seem insensitive, but the reality of progress is that stupid people need to die early.  We certainly shouldn't endeavor to kill them, but at least let them be subject to natural selection. 

Perhaps the most callous thought ever expressed on this board.

Nothing callous at all about it. Folks clearly prefer to ignore reality, but that does not alter the facts of same.

More than a few folks would be in dire straits if the modern technological support network were to fail for more than a few hours. After all, look how many people are utterly helpless in the face of hurricanes, wildfires, etc. Clearly, a huge number aren't even smart enough to realize they are in danger and ignore warnings. When no cell signal or lost data connection is perceived as a catastrophic event, then a REAL emergency quickly becomes non-survivable.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2018, 09:50:15 PM »
Quote
the extensive single-family housing (real residential structures) that is dedicated to permanent concession employees living full time in a national park
Other parks may be different, but from personal experience in Big Bend, I think perhaps you may not realize the degree to which non-NPS residents (especially concessions) are treated as second-class citizens. This may have changed, but 15 years ago there was one single-family residence for the general manager of concessions. The two assistant managers shared a duplex, and most other employees lived in two-bedroom one-bath trailers (and we're definitely talking single-wide). Single employees were four to a trailer. The newest constructed concession housing at that time was a dorm with two floors. Each floor had eight employees sharing four bedrooms, two baths, and one kitchen/living area. Of course there's no way NPS employees would put up with that, but it was good enough for concessions... There have been a number of single-family residences built since then, but not for concessions employees that I'm aware of.

All true. But that does not change the fact there is extensive residential presence in parks. The best example of which I am aware is the description I gave of Grand Canyon, which certainly has single-family housing for concession employees. Clearly, seasonal employees of concessioners or the NPS do not rate the kinds of accommodations provided families.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2018, 09:57:08 PM »
Whether you legally own the land in a national forest or are just renting it is not germane to the point, which is that people live (i.e., have domiciles) in national forests.  I was in George Washington National Forest a couple of weeks ago and there were two or three homes (plus land) for sale.

But it IS germane. When you own private land (not just the structure, but also the underlying ground, you are NOT living on USFS land. That is entirely a different matter than residing upon a public land surface. You perhaps would be surprised at the number of inholding tracts surrounded by federal/state lands.

You can ask the managing agency or the county assessor about the status of any piece of ground. Assuming a particular status, without confirmation, is nothing but speculation.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2018, 10:20:43 PM »
And... society definitely needs to stop expecting the govt to save us from ourselves...

Sadly, the sense of entitlement and dependence upon govt is increasing at a rate where those of us who believe the above soon will be (if not already) in the minority.

A dependent society is a compliant society that will not jeopardize their access to free stuff nor be bothered by their willingness to surrender rights for the illusion of security (to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 01:47:48 AM by presidio »
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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Re: You can't fix stupid, but you can blame the NPS...
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2018, 10:27:41 PM »
You do relize that it is not the tax payer that does the consesion housing but in fact your employer that does your housing. If forevr resort or whoever it was 15 years ago, chooses not to provide good housing it is on them, not the tax pay public. It's a contract operation.

That does not change the situation nor dynamic of people residing in NPS areas.

The original comment was about Keepa's speculation about "The NPS has to manage people because they are allowed only to visit national parks, but the NFS does not manage people because it knows people are part of the forests. Different requirements. How different would the NFS be if no people would be allowed to live and own property in national forests?"

My comment was about the idea that people routinely "live" in national forests (they don't) and a parallel idea that people don't live in parks (they do, lots of them). Who pays the bill is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 01:48:56 AM by presidio »
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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