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most natl park sys advisory board members have just resigned in protest of zinke

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Here's the formal part of the process for getting on the board. Also looks like the Trump administration was NOT expecting to lose nine members of the board anytime soon.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/11/16/2017-24827/national-park-system-advisory-board-request-for-nominations

I hereby nominate the greatly esteemed, highly accomplished, and sometimes smelly HMoD!

:icon_lol:  Nomination much appreciated, but I'm not sure I'm D.C. material. 
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline iCe

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I hereby nominate the greatly esteemed, highly accomplished, and sometimes smelly MHoD!


Second!


Don't worry about going to DC... rake in the dough and refuse to meet by way of protest  :icon_biggrin:  Then pick up that ultrlight flying backpack that converts to a raft. Get the helicopter upgrade (VFR only) and bam... we've got the next trip report in the making!
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[In any event, Zinke now has a clean slate here and has also fashioned many others by cancelling the work of numerous other committees and projects, about 200 if I recall correctly. Anyone care to conjecture what productive and positive changes will result from these actions?


I'd be impressed if anything positive happened BEFORE they resigned. Don't say Bears Ears. Wait... you can say Bears Ears if you want to, don't matter to me, but imho (A) it existed, relatively unknown and untrashed BEFORE it got turned into a political football. (B) I was hoping that the new would wear off soon and people that never knew about it would forget but noooo.... we had to bring it up again... and un-monumentize <-- cool word eh? I just made that up myself. It's the internet so you know it's real... it and (C) nothing changed when they made it a monument except the traffic levels at the trailhead... most people won't go 100 yards down a trail... but they still leave trash everywhere and now it's un-monumentized and everyone will go to the un-monument and do their part to protest... You know... like they did when that pipeline company wanted to bore under a river. They all went up there, banged on drums, made signs, waved them, sounded angry (stoned?) when they were interviewed, didn't work, made a huge mound of garbage, and then when donations ran out, they left.  The really serious might even make a Facebook page <gasp> but only if they are really serious.

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Offline mule ears

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https://www.nps.gov/resources/advisoryboard.htm

See the charter, which states that total annual expenses of the board including staff support is $200K, so I don't think any of  the members are in it for the money, as has been suggested above.


Hey, my wife just retired.  I could use any extra pocket change.

The devils in the details.......It seems unlikely that the total cost of such a body is only 200k. That may be the cost of having 2 full time staff members

" The Secretary may hire 2 full-time staffers to meet the needs of the Board."

"Upon the request of the Board, the head of any Federal department or agency, or instrumentality is authorized to make any of the facilities and services of such department, agency or instrumentality to the Board, on a non refundable basis, to assist the Board in carrying out its duties"


"All members of the Board shall be reimbursed for travel and per diem in lieu of subsistence expenses during the performance of duties of the Board while away from home or their regular place of business"


And........

"Knowles told The Washington Post that the board, despite being required to meet twice a year, has not convened since President Trump took office"........so if they don't meet what's the point??

Thank you for beating me to it, I have served on several Federal boards and all they pay is travel expenses so everyone's knee jerk reaction to "follow the money" is not correct.
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Offline mule ears

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:
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Offline iCe

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:


 :eusa_shifty: Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?"


I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that).


Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they? 


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Offline elhombre

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:

Because Twitter and Google admittedly filtered out all Pro -trump, American, God fearing, gun loving conservative view points.  I believe BBC doesn't do that, so it is nice have a different uncensored opinion given. 

Was this NPS board responsible for the backlog of maintenance at all parks?  Was the board responsible for the increase in NPS park fees?  Was this board responsible for the rampant sexual harassment environment that female rangers complain about?  What did they do to improve these problems?

Either they are important enough that they are partly responsible for these negative issues, or they were not significant to the NPS operation and they are nothing but fluff.  Sounds like a bunch of babies who decided that things aren't going their way, so they took their football and went home.  True Americans fight for what they believe in, and simple just don't quit when things get tough.

First Russian Collusion, then Obstruction, then illegal payment to Stormy Daniels, now no formal vote on impeachment for a 30 min. phone call to Ukraine

No evidence, just more secret investigations and Shifty lies perpetuating insane blinding anger

America will survive.  God Bless America

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:


 :eusa_shifty: Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?"


I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that).


Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?

iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder.

Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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I'd much rather have an NPS with an advisory board than one without one. Heck, I'd even be willing to put elhombre on it, and he and I disagree on almost as much as we agree. But grit sharpens the blade.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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But grit sharpens the blade.

By the way, that's a compliment.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline mule ears

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:


 :eusa_shifty: Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?"


I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that).


Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?

iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder.

Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.

That is how I read it.  Some folks refuse to read sometimes.  And yes this is how real participatory government works and it is slow and many times maddening but people get a voice, that is not what we have these days.
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Offline iCe

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But grit sharpens the blade.


Winner winner chicken dinner


Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great:  not
Settle Down  :icon_biggrin:  or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.
Why would you want to?   :eusa_think: 
:eusa_shifty:  Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?" I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that). Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?
iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder. Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.


No sir I didn't. I've never had much use for cry babies so I made an assumption. I'll take some time to look it over. The bottom line for me is that they didn't like Zinke and they made a big show of resigning from a board, which is the civilian version of abandoning their post because the cushions weren't comfortable enough. They were about to be taken off of any way so, like a little kid that didn't get his way, they threw a fit. <-- being very, very restrained and deleting expletives and anatomical references... just in case the document somehow makes sense...


Zinke opinion (just for balance) - I don't think he was a good choice. <-- I engaged my mental suppressor to curtail the volume of this comment. Just sayin...

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Offline iCe

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:


 :eusa_shifty: Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?"


I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that).


Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?

iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder.

Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.

That is how I read it.  Some folks refuse to read sometimes.  And yes this is how real participatory government works and it is slow and many times maddening but people get a voice, that is not what we have these days.


Then why did they quit?

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Offline mule ears

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:


 :eusa_shifty: Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?"


I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that).


Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?

iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder.

Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.

That is how I read it.  Some folks refuse to read sometimes.  And yes this is how real participatory government works and it is slow and many times maddening but people get a voice, that is not what we have these days.


Then why did they quit?

Because after a year they still were not allowed to report what they were supposed to, no voice.  Sometimes you just have to walk out to get the point across, of course certainly made easier as their terms were about over.  More effective than waiting until after they were done, look at the press it has gotten.  I am pretty sure you have done that in the past, or at least wanted to.
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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great:  not
Settle Down  :icon_biggrin:  or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.
Why would you want to?   :eusa_think: 
:eusa_shifty:  Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?" I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that). Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?
iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder. Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.


No sir I didn't. I've never had much use for cry babies so I made an assumption. I'll take some time to look it over. The bottom line for me is that they didn't like Zinke and they made a big show of resigning from a board, which is the civilian version of abandoning their post because the cushions weren't comfortable enough. They were about to be taken off of any way so, like a little kid that didn't get his way, they threw a fit. <-- being very, very restrained and deleting expletives and anatomical references... just in case the document somehow makes sense...

Zinke opinion (just for balance) - I don't think he was a good choice. <-- I engaged my mental suppressor to curtail the volume of this comment. Just sayin...

iCe....man...you gotta up your game. You can't skip reading the documents (or the links) and then make those kinds of assumptions or accusations. Neither you nor I know anything more about why the board members resigned other than what they've said...or (and this is a BIG or) what has been reported (we're all suspicious of the media, right?).  I will point one flaw out, though. I don't think they HAD to rotate off at the end of their terms. I think they could have continued if they were renominated. If you look at the earlier link I posted from the NPS, etc., asking for submissions for nominees, it didn't look like anyone in government was expecting to fill more than three positions this year. If I were to make an educated guess, largely supported by what Knowles has written, I'd say these resignations were done as surprise protests because Zinke was stone-walling them. He holds all the cards; this was all they had left.

And, since we're telling secrets...I don't like Zinke.  He'd make a better Secretary of Energy than Secretary of the Interior. At least he'd be playing to his strengths. I think BBC needs a Zinke thread. He's sure to provide us with lots of material in the coming months.
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I think BBC needs a Zinke thread. He's sure to provide us with lots of material in the coming months.

Maybe call it, "Whaddaya thinkee Zinke?"
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

 


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