Friends of Big Bend National Park
Big Bend Conservancy

Over-estimating your experience or under-estimating the terrain in a place like Big Bend can result in serious injury or death. Use the information and advice found here wisely. Climb/Hike/Camp/Drive at your own risk.

+-Calendar for sale

 2019 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!


most natl park sys advisory board members have just resigned in protest of zinke

  • 62 Replies
  • 3492 Views
*

Offline RichardM

  • Admin/Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 7618
I think BBC needs a Zinke thread. He's sure to provide us with lots of material in the coming months.

Maybe call it, "Whaddaya thinkee Zinke?"
Ummmm, no. Let's keep it all in this thread for now and try to not get too political. :ranger:

*

Offline House Made of Dawn

  • www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YJduDyFA4
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3028
  • Backpacking since '78, Big Bend since '95.
I think BBC needs a Zinke thread. He's sure to provide us with lots of material in the coming months.

Maybe call it, "Whaddaya thinkee Zinke?"
Ummmm, no. Let's keep it all in this thread for now and try to not get too political. :ranger:

:sign0096:  :steeringwheel:  :sign0098:
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

*

Offline iCe

  • Random Pixel Generator
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1854
    • Wild Light Imaging Studio
Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great: not

Settle Down  :icon_biggrin: or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.

Why would you want to?   :eusa_think:


 :eusa_shifty: Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?"


I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that).


Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?

iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder.

Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.

That is how I read it.  Some folks refuse to read sometimes.  And yes this is how real participatory government works and it is slow and many times maddening but people get a voice, that is not what we have these days.


Then why did they quit?

Because after a year they still were not allowed to report what they were supposed to, no voice.  Sometimes you just have to walk out to get the point across, of course certainly made easier as their terms were about over.  More effective than waiting until after they were done, look at the press it has gotten.  I am pretty sure you have done that in the past, or at least wanted to.


 :eusa_think: Well... yes I have. That's how I exited a company that I spent 21 years of my life and ended up where I am today. It worked out pretty good too  :icon_smile:


I'm not surprised by a "current administration's crew" freezing out a "prior administrations crew". 

*

Offline iCe

  • Random Pixel Generator
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1854
    • Wild Light Imaging Studio

Another indication of what great administration this is.   :great:  not
Settle Down  :icon_biggrin:  or (we) might have to petition for some pro-Trump time.
Why would you want to?   :eusa_think: 
:eusa_shifty:  Ummm.... maybe to avoid an "Orwellian experience?" I suppose we could all march in lockstep... believe the same thing... the tooth fairy... a politician... invade a few countries... start a world war... or there could be healthy disagreement to flesh things out (just not on BiBe chat. I don't come here for that). Losing those board members falls into the who cares category. They didn't do anything for over a year! What good were they?
iCe, did you read Knowles letter to Zinke? Sounds to me like they did a great deal of research and analysis, but finally resigned because Zinke wouldn't let them share their recommendations with him, whatever its merits or demerits may have been.  An advisory board can't advise unless the parent organization wants to be advised. I think the onus here is on Zinke (and quite possibly, by extension, his boss). Sounds like Zinke gave the advisory board a complete and total cold shoulder. Now, I'm simply not willing to accept the premise that all such advisory boards are de facto worthless. I've sat on a few and worked my butt off to make a difference. More than once, I have actually made a difference. Sure, the interpersonal and policy politics can be mind-numbingly dumb, slow, and occasionally maddeningly pointless. Welcome to human interaction. it takes a long time and a lot of energy to nudge a pluralistic society or even a pluralistic business to make changes or accept innovation. But that's still how things get done in anything other than a dictatorship - you know, the Orwellian kind.


No sir I didn't. I've never had much use for cry babies so I made an assumption. I'll take some time to look it over. The bottom line for me is that they didn't like Zinke and they made a big show of resigning from a board, which is the civilian version of abandoning their post because the cushions weren't comfortable enough. They were about to be taken off of any way so, like a little kid that didn't get his way, they threw a fit. <-- being very, very restrained and deleting expletives and anatomical references... just in case the document somehow makes sense...

Zinke opinion (just for balance) - I don't think he was a good choice. <-- I engaged my mental suppressor to curtail the volume of this comment. Just sayin...

iCe....man...you gotta up your game. You can't skip reading the documents (or the links) and then make those kinds of assumptions or accusations. Neither you nor I know anything more about why the board members resigned other than what they've said...or (and this is a BIG or) what has been reported (we're all suspicious of the media, right?).  I will point one flaw out, though. I don't think they HAD to rotate off at the end of their terms. I think they could have continued if they were renominated. If you look at the earlier link I posted from the NPS, etc., asking for submissions for nominees, it didn't look like anyone in government was expecting to fill more than three positions this year. If I were to make an educated guess, largely supported by what Knowles has written, I'd say these resignations were done as surprise protests because Zinke was stone-walling them. He holds all the cards; this was all they had left.

And, since we're telling secrets...I don't like Zinke.  He'd make a better Secretary of Energy than Secretary of the Interior. At least he'd be playing to his strengths. I think BBC needs a Zinke thread. He's sure to provide us with lots of material in the coming months.


Political "things" cause my brains full nictitating membrane to engage. So I can be forgiven for not reading the whining of someone who doesn't like his boss. It happens to me all the time  :eusa_dance: :icon_lol:


What we've got here (is not a failure to communicate) is a contest between two teams (not us, them). Both teams suck and both of them cheat. One cheated with international help and then tried to pin it on the other. One has the most marbles. One wants the most marbles but dropped their bag (old bag?) in the big game. Kind of like the current team with the most marbles did two superbowls ago.  But the team that lost can't see the forest for the trees... ok the tumbleweeds for the brushpile? and they waste countless months stepping on their d**ks doing everything they can to commit pass interference which does nothing more than expose them as the lying cheating team they are. Nobody wins... which, in the case of the wall, is a good thing.


Weaving and bobbing is tiresome 

*

Offline House Made of Dawn

  • www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YJduDyFA4
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3028
  • Backpacking since '78, Big Bend since '95.
I know, right? This is me weaving and bobbing.   :1rij:
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

*

Offline blubear

  • Jack Rabbit
  • *
  • 35
[

Then why did they quit?

See this line in Tony Knowles letter: For the last year we have stood by waiting for the chance to meet and continue the partnership between the NPSAB and the DOI as prescribed by law.

He and the other signees are protesting a continued practice on Zinke's part of not following the LAW.  Gee, I guess all this committee stuff in the gummint is regulated by laws! Who'd a thunk it? And they are saying that Zinke is not running DOI by the book in their inteface with them and they are giving up.

*

Offline iCe

  • Random Pixel Generator
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1854
    • Wild Light Imaging Studio
[

Then why did they quit?

See this line in Tony Knowles letter: For the last year we have stood by waiting for the chance to meet and continue the partnership between the NPSAB and the DOI as prescribed by law.

He and the other signees are protesting a continued practice on Zinke's part of not following the LAW.  Gee, I guess all this committee stuff in the gummint is regulated by laws! Who'd a thunk it? And they are saying that Zinke is not running DOI by the book in their inteface with them and they are giving up.


Just sat their looking at one another- "When are they going to come to us? Don't they know who we are? I say we wait until they realize how important we are."


That dog don't hunt in my world. Proactive beats reactive every... single... time. Notice that I didn't use the synonym for "beats"... see how sensitive I am  :icon_lol: :willynilly: :eusa_doh: If my boss goes silent for too long he damn well knows that I'm here (politely of course). I don't sit around and wait for him to realize how important I am because the odds are pretty high that he won't.

*

Offline blubear

  • Jack Rabbit
  • *
  • 35
[

Then why did they quit?

See this line in Tony Knowles letter: For the last year we have stood by waiting for the chance to meet and continue the partnership between the NPSAB and the DOI as prescribed by law.

He and the other signees are protesting a continued practice on Zinke's part of not following the LAW.  Gee, I guess all this committee stuff in the gummint is regulated by laws! Who'd a thunk it? And they are saying that Zinke is not running DOI by the book in their inteface with them and they are giving up.


Just sat their looking at one another- "When are they going to come to us? Don't they know who we are? I say we wait until they realize how important we are."


That dog don't hunt in my world. Proactive beats reactive every... single... time. Notice that I didn't use the synonym for "beats"... see how sensitive I am  :icon_lol: :willynilly: :eusa_doh: If my boss goes silent for too long he damn well knows that I'm here (politely of course). I don't sit around and wait for him to realize how important I am because the odds are pretty high that he won't.

All I can say is you've got a novel take on that quote.
My read is that both sides, the NPSAB and the DOI, have to meet and cooperate in order to discharge their legal duties, and the DOI, managed by Zinke, hasn't followed through on this. In this sense, he is disregarding the law. It's not a matter of the NPSAB members trying to get recognition for how important they think they are.

*

Offline iCe

  • Random Pixel Generator
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1854
    • Wild Light Imaging Studio
[

Then why did they quit?

See this line in Tony Knowles letter: For the last year we have stood by waiting for the chance to meet and continue the partnership between the NPSAB and the DOI as prescribed by law.

He and the other signees are protesting a continued practice on Zinke's part of not following the LAW.  Gee, I guess all this committee stuff in the gummint is regulated by laws! Who'd a thunk it? And they are saying that Zinke is not running DOI by the book in their inteface with them and they are giving up.


Just sat their looking at one another- "When are they going to come to us? Don't they know who we are? I say we wait until they realize how important we are."


That dog don't hunt in my world. Proactive beats reactive every... single... time. Notice that I didn't use the synonym for "beats"... see how sensitive I am  :icon_lol: :willynilly: :eusa_doh: If my boss goes silent for too long he damn well knows that I'm here (politely of course). I don't sit around and wait for him to realize how important I am because the odds are pretty high that he won't.

All I can say is you've got a novel take on that quote.
My read is that both sides, the NPSAB and the DOI, have to meet and cooperate in order to discharge their legal duties, and the DOI, managed by Zinke, hasn't followed through on this. In this sense, he is disregarding the law. It's not a matter of the NPSAB members trying to get recognition for how important they think they are.


I'm good with you having your pov. I really am. I wouldn't ask anyone to change that. I give my opinion and you're free to give yours. If we disagree, no worries, I'd still give you my last bottle of water if I saw you in need on a trail (I'd probably call you bad names if I died of dehydration later but that's my problem not yours  :)  )


I will say this, In my 40+ years in the business I am in, I don't know anyone that would see:


"For the last year we have stood by waiting"


as anything other than what I see it as and I've worked with a lot of people over the years. They sat around for a year and waited for someone to come see them? Nobody waits in my world. You're either a solution or a problem and if you're a problem then we'll go over, thru, or around you but we will get it done. Time is money, etc, etc, etc. If you've got something to say then say it. They aren't the only thing going on in the NPS. They should have made more noise sooner.

*

Offline mule ears

  • Administrator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4382
  • "He had to leave Texas but won't say why" McMurtry
    • 40 years of walking
[

Then why did they quit?

See this line in Tony Knowles letter: For the last year we have stood by waiting for the chance to meet and continue the partnership between the NPSAB and the DOI as prescribed by law.

He and the other signees are protesting a continued practice on Zinke's part of not following the LAW.  Gee, I guess all this committee stuff in the gummint is regulated by laws! Who'd a thunk it? And they are saying that Zinke is not running DOI by the book in their inteface with them and they are giving up.


Just sat their looking at one another- "When are they going to come to us? Don't they know who we are? I say we wait until they realize how important we are."


That dog don't hunt in my world. Proactive beats reactive every... single... time. Notice that I didn't use the synonym for "beats"... see how sensitive I am  :icon_lol: :willynilly: :eusa_doh: If my boss goes silent for too long he damn well knows that I'm here (politely of course). I don't sit around and wait for him to realize how important I am because the odds are pretty high that he won't.

All I can say is you've got a novel take on that quote.
My read is that both sides, the NPSAB and the DOI, have to meet and cooperate in order to discharge their legal duties, and the DOI, managed by Zinke, hasn't followed through on this. In this sense, he is disregarding the law. It's not a matter of the NPSAB members trying to get recognition for how important they think they are.


I'm good with you having your pov. I really am. I wouldn't ask anyone to change that. I give my opinion and you're free to give yours. If we disagree, no worries, I'd still give you my last bottle of water if I saw you in need on a trail (I'd probably call you bad names if I died of dehydration later but that's my problem not yours  :)  )


I will say this, In my 40+ years in the business I am in, I don't know anyone that would see:


"For the last year we have stood by waiting"


as anything other than what I see it as and I've worked with a lot of people over the years. They sat around for a year and waited for someone to come see them? Nobody waits in my world. You're either a solution or a problem and if you're a problem then we'll go over, thru, or around you but we will get it done. Time is money, etc, etc, etc. If you've got something to say then say it. They aren't the only thing going on in the NPS. They should have made more noise sooner.
ICe, your examples are one of many differences between private industry and public professional politics.  As much as many of us may hate it, politician is as much a necessary profession in a democracy as doctor or roughneck is in private business.  The current problem is the government is being filled with people who don't have a clue as to how things work (or not being filled at all) the idea that we can do without government is possible is just not realistic.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Big Bend Chat mobile app

temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

*

Offline House Made of Dawn

  • www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YJduDyFA4
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3028
  • Backpacking since '78, Big Bend since '95.
I don't know if iCe is saying we can do without politicians, I think I hear him wondering why politics doesn't function like a business. THAT is the trick. They don't, they can't, and they won't. As you point out, ME, they're just not the same. Does no good to automatically project private sector expectations onto public sector endeavors. I suspect each domain can learn a little from the other, but there are real limits: they are fundamentally different animals.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

*

Offline iCe

  • Random Pixel Generator
  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1854
    • Wild Light Imaging Studio
So if I understand you guys right, politicians don't have to have a sense of honor, integrity, workplace ethic, and decency? No wonder they spend so much of our money covering up the trash in their lives.


I don't think we can do without them. I want them to be decent people. Some are but the majority aren't. Quite a few of them are dumb as a rock. Some play the dumb game but some take it a step further and win with it... Case in point... three words. Sheila Jackson Lee (that's just the first one that comes to mind).


Sitting around waiting for someone that you work for to come check on you is adult day care center bs  :) 

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3501
I'd much rather have an NPS with an advisory board than one without one. Heck, I'd even be willing to put elhombre on it, and he and I disagree on almost as much as we agree. But grit sharpens the blade.

An advisory board that does nothing but rubber stamp NPS desires is worthless.

Do/did they do that? I have no idea. But, you don't see any dissent from within or beside the NPS, and the NPS notoriously does not solicit public opinion about anything they do.

That's a pretty strong indication their "advisory" board is cosmetic.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline Txlj

  • Black Bear
  • *
  • 570
The way I see it, its a win for us, the people that use the parks and lands set aside for people like us. As they stand around measuring, they have less time to think of idiotic ways to destroying our time on the land. 

Sent from flat land


*

Offline mule ears

  • Administrator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 4382
  • "He had to leave Texas but won't say why" McMurtry
    • 40 years of walking
So if I understand you guys right, politicians don't have to have a sense of honor, integrity, workplace ethic, and decency? No wonder they spend so much of our money covering up the trash in their lives.


I don't think we can do without them. I want them to be decent people. Some are but the majority aren't. Quite a few of them are dumb as a rock. Some play the dumb game but some take it a step further and win with it... Case in point... three words. Sheila Jackson Lee (that's just the first one that comes to mind).


Sitting around waiting for someone that you work for to come check on you is adult day care center bs  :)

No, that is the problem, there used to be way more that did have "a sense of honor, integrity, workplace ethic, and decency" and that public service was just that.  Now it seems just a way to get ahead (PACs and donors, lobbying jobs).  Hell, I have even considered running for office recently because the scam artiists that represent me don't have much of a sense of honor, integrity, workplace ethic, and decency.  The many boards that I have served on and other public service I have done (all volunteer) have taught me that we all have to step up and help run our lives.  "The work gets done by those who show up"
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

 


©COPYRIGHT NOTICE

All photographs and content posted by members are to be considered copyrighted by their respective owners and may not be used for any purposes, commercial or otherwise, without permission.

+-Calendar For Sale

 2019 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!

Powered by EzPortal

Facebook Comments