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New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend

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Offline dprather

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 10:14:02 PM »
I am no more a fan of life in our bureaucratic republic than anyone else. 

This rule is more annoying, however, than onerous. 

The reasons might not make a lot of sense, but I doubt that there is deviousness or darkness behind this.   :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance:

I suggest that we crawl on board.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline iCe

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2014, 10:20:25 PM »
So if I mix my food and water in one of those big flour canisters isn't there a chance of a leak ruining both the food and the water?


Do the parks that actually have a lot of bears require water to be stored in the canister too?

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Offline trtlrock

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2014, 12:43:09 AM »
This rule is more annoying, however, than onerous. 

Not true. Start thinking about the additional costs, weight, and pack-volume mandated by this new rule and you will find that it is very onerous, even for short hikes.

The reasons might not make a lot of sense...

I can't see that they make any sense. Other than the Chisos & the Quemadas, it is my understanding that BB bears are very few and far between. Any bear traversing (let's say) Onion Flat, Alamo Creek, Dagger Flat, or Bone Draw is almost assuredly just passing through, and these transient excursions are (to the best of my knowledge) exceedingly rare.

Additionally, the theoretical need to cache water inside of a bear container, and the ludicrous expense required to do so, and the near physical impossibility of fitting the gallon(s) of water into the bear containers themselves...well, this really defies explanation. Show me the scientifically valid study proving that bears are heavily inclined to sniff out sealed gallons of water cached in an area they don't frequent...and that they will then lurk thereabouts forever after waiting for that next gallon of water to be cached...

 :icon_lol:

The apparent reasoning behind these rules seems so outlandish that the burden of proof is on the NPS to show legitimate cause, in my opinion.

...but I doubt that there is deviousness or darkness behind this.   :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance:

Well, that's comforting...I guess apparent lack of mental acuity is less threatening than obvious maliciousness  :icon_smile:

I suggest that we crawl on board.

You'll need to change your avatar then...  ;)

Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
 Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 01:01:13 AM by trtlrock »
John & Tess

"...and I'll face each day with a smile, for the time that I've been given's such a little while..." - Arthur Lee

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Offline mule ears

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2014, 07:08:35 AM »
So if I mix my food and water in one of those big flour canisters isn't there a chance of a leak ruining both the food and the water?

Yes that could happen, it would be up to you to make sure the water is in a leak proof container

Quote
Do the parks that actually have a lot of bears require water to be stored in the canister too?

I have checked the regs in a number of parks and locations and none of them require water in bear proof containers but then they are wetter places with lots of water flowing.

The only other similar park that I could think of that is a desert park with bears is Saguaro in Ariz.  They do require food storage in lockers in designated sites and bear cans or bear hangs in "dispersed" camping zones.  No specific mention of water but they refer to "all attractants" which includes beverage containers and drinks must be in the containers, it is the same in Yosemite.  My understanding of that has always been flavored drinks or liquids not plain water.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 08:32:53 AM by mule ears »
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

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Offline dprather

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2014, 12:36:02 PM »
My Bob Marley avatar ( :afro: ) was originally intended as the ultimate WASP irony.  About the only thing that connects me to Bob is that I once visited Jamaica.  My wife rolls her eyes to goodness whenever she sees me on here with Bob (another good reason to keep the avatar).

But maybe Bob was right about how best to deal with creeping and creepy bureaucracy.  If memory serves he was most often to be found in his "happy place," thus these lyrics:

Life is one big road
With lots of signs,

When you're riding the ruts
Don't complicate your mind.


In preparation for our October MDA, I have already ordered one of the blue 500s.

By the way, acepting the rules is not an endorsement of the rules. 

Hey - maybe we can loot the Basin store in protest!  FREE THE FOOD! 

Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline VivaTerlingua

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2014, 01:44:34 PM »
In an effort to protect us from the wildlife, it won't be long until we'll be limited to visiting the park via Google Earth.

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Offline trtlrock

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2014, 01:55:43 PM »
By the way, acepting the rules is not an endorsement of the rules. 

You're right. And my frustration is with the NPS, not you.

Sorry for hopping on your post instead of just making my own post. 
John & Tess

"...and I'll face each day with a smile, for the time that I've been given's such a little while..." - Arthur Lee

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Offline dprather

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2014, 04:19:19 PM »
We're cool trtl.

I have to ask myself this question: is it still worth it if I have to carry a stupid canister?  Answer: yes.

By the way, I got the bigger of the two because someone on here said that they can be used and a camp seat!
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline iCe

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2014, 06:09:07 PM »

randomness ensues...

What!!! That's not a picture of you dprather?


Careful... you wouldn't want "the man" thinking you were serious about lxxting <-- 128 bit encryption, take that NzA!!! (where x = o and z = S) ((dangit... a gave the cypher away)...


Can I play the container like a bongo... que Dire Straits Money for Nothing background music.


3am came early this morning... but I was dazzled and amazed by the intense firestorm that wuz the Perseid meteors... I was easily as overwhelmed by the Perseids as I was by the last Stoopid Moon (Mark Levine voice on) That's right, I said it! (and off)... that I didn't bother to photograph because next months full moon will be called the almost super moon and that is better. As soon as the time lapse gets done I'll post the incredible yawnage (on another thread) of the Perseids.


The bear canister thing is idiotic. Yes, yes I am an American citizen... thank you for making me come to a complete stop in the middle of nowhere to confirm that. <--- the slow erosion of rights may very well have begun here. I feel much better now. Hoe and change! or something like that. Etc...


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Offline dprather

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2014, 06:44:43 PM »
I'm sorry to disappoint you ICE, you and all of the other wailers.

Let's just forget my denial.

I confess that I AM Bob Marley and that I shot the sheriff.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline ds9writer

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2014, 07:05:50 PM »
Quote
I confess that I AM Bob Marley and that I shot the sheriff.

did you shoot the deputy?
You don't travel to see different things,
You travel to see things differently.

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Offline badknees

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2014, 07:40:43 PM »
I am no more a fan of life in our bureaucratic republic than anyone else. 

This rule is more annoying, however, than onerous. 

The reasons might not make a lot of sense, but I doubt that there is deviousness or darkness behind this.   :eusa_dance: :eusa_dance:

I suggest that we crawl on board.

Don't ever underestimate the motive of those who have the power to make rules.

Also don't ever underestimate the power of dissent.
Not all those who wander are lost.
J.R.R. Tolkien

Through the Mirror
http://mirrormagic.com

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Offline dprather

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2014, 08:27:06 PM »
Between threats of looting the Basin store and shooting the sheriff, I have enough guilt to bear, but I did not shoot the deputy.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline elhombre

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2014, 09:08:03 PM »
Hey Bob  :afro:, do you have some phone numbers and names of people who you spoke to in the park when they said that the containers are required?  I much rather start my anti-bear container campaign on the phone/e-mail than when I am standing there in front of the government drone begging for a permit.

ME's stats on how many bears/ square mile is good stuff.   Maybe the "naturalist" who decided that this is required can be identified, and letters can be written questioning their college degree.  I got $1 Obama Buck that says there is no data on bears eating backpacker food.  Any takers?????

If this goes down to official "open records request"....... :13:

Quick, someone light up the sky with the spot light,  Presidio!  we need your HELP!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:13:14 PM by elhombre »
For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline dprather

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2014, 10:07:32 PM »
 :afro: wishes to get from between the seething backpacking crowd and the NPS and will now lively up myself on over to a safer place like, say, Ferguson, Missouri.

I was assisted to my current understanding of the rules by a kind lady at the end of an email.  She referenced the 2014 Supt's Compendium p. 11.  This doesn't seem to be a local interpretation.  As I understand it, this rule or something like it is par for the course with many other NPS locations. 

My backpacking amigo is retired ATF and understands the fed mind pretty well.  He says that they probably have not decided to pick out a group to torment.  They are probably just responding to perceived pressure from elsewhere within the NPS or to perceived threat of a lawsuit if one of us gets mauled by a bear in a tussle over an unsecured candy bar.



Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

 


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