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New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend

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Offline menandlois

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #135 on: July 23, 2015, 03:47:29 PM »
Well I'm afraid if Ursaks are out for water drops then so are we.  And we have a planned trip in Jan. there!  I can't imagine how you could afford space/weight to pick up and carry all the water cache canisters if they are vault style.  I can do it with the ursack. 

Are there still boxes to cache water in at H.Wilson, and the bottom of Juniper?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 04:14:40 PM by menandlois »

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Offline catz

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #136 on: July 23, 2015, 04:21:10 PM »
There are bear boxes at both Homer Wilson and the Dodson-Juniper intersection.
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Offline iCe

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #137 on: July 25, 2015, 11:08:30 AM »
The bear box at Juniper trailhead was full of trash when I was there a few days ago. It smelled like used "necessary paper". Most of the trash was in a large black plastic trash bag and there were two empty water jugs from February there too. I should have photographed them... they put their names on the jugs. Empty jugs btw.


I didn't have room and I sure didn't want the smell in my Landcruiser or I would have loaded it up. That smell would have accompanied me to Glen Springs and a little bit of Black Gap road (I turned around at the cemetery since we had already travelled the River Road the day before) all the way back to the ranger station. Plus... I don't know where I could have disposed of a huge black bag full of sh*t paper.

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Offline menandlois

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #138 on: November 04, 2015, 03:48:38 PM »
Well we are planning on doing our outer/outer mountain trip this January again, so called the rangers to ask about the URsacks.  We talked to a couple rangers who put the question to a law enforcement ranger.  Since the URsack is on the IGBC approved list, we were told by this ranger that we could indeed use these instead of hardsided canisters... :eusa_dance:
So excited that this is going to happen!  We have to buy the new white ones, but at least we can do our favorite trip again.  Up the pinnacles to the rim, down juniper, walk the road around to black gap, black gap road across to ET.  Up the ET to dodson, and around to blue creek, back up to rim and our other fav. rim campsite (we hope!)  Not a possible trip without water drops.

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Offline mule ears

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #139 on: November 04, 2015, 03:51:22 PM »
That is great news and thanks for doing that leg work and reporting back.  Have a great trip!
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
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Offline menandlois

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #140 on: November 04, 2015, 03:53:44 PM »
Yes I agree, extremely good news.  We were expecting to get denied, but it does say in the rules, that the IGBC list is accepted.  Just didn't want to get there and find out that we were going to be told differently. Glad to share this good news!

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #141 on: November 04, 2015, 08:02:49 PM »
That is great, thanks for sharing

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Offline elhombre

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #142 on: November 05, 2015, 09:13:25 AM »
Curious that they had to ask Johnny Law what is a bear proof container and the gate keepers who write permits didn't know.  HOPEFULLY, their idea of what needs to be in a bear proof container will continue to evolve and water will NOT have to be in a bear proof container, just like the rest of the NPS parks.

Looks like your hike could be called the outer-outer-outer mountain loop!   There is pretty reliable water out there.  First, Glenn Springs is always flowing. Second, the well at Robbers Roost has water in it, but you have to get through the cat claw.  Third, Sand Spring, http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.18010,-103.20329&z=15&t=T has water in it.  So much so it had a huge cottonwood tree and an old mud house at it.  Water was flowing a good .25 mile below it last time I saw it.  An older ranger that has since retired told me that was the location of the original Robbers Roost.  There is also a bunch of wire laying around as if it was a heavily used watering hole for ranching at one time.  Lastly, http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.16215,-103.17827&z=18&t=H Screw Bean spring had water in last time I was by there.  Don't really know how reliable it is, and would not recommend it as reliable, but it is close enough to the road you could take a look. 

Thanks for the new info, and please post all the water you find out on your trip when you get back.  We too have plans to hit the Quemadas with some kind of loop around Christmas and I will post what we find also.
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Offline menandlois

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #143 on: November 05, 2015, 09:32:58 AM »
Thanks for the water source links, we have always chosen to drop water in caches instead of using the springs. Well - mostly, as we do use boot when up in the Chisos.  But down in the desert, we like to leave what little water there is for the local fauna.  And it's not that much of a burden to drop water in a few places for this trip as there is a road!  I'm also cautious about trusting that there will indeed be water in sources when you get there. We will document water where we find it for you, and give a trip report.  We've always been drawn to the Quemada, but have heard that the pass over it is not that fun.  Done a couple day hikes around up there, but wish there was a better loop option. 

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Offline elhombre

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #144 on: November 05, 2015, 06:34:31 PM »
  But down in the desert, we like to leave what little water there is for the local fauna.

I understand why many people think this.  The rangers preach it, and common sense makes it seem like a logical conclusion.  But I would encourage you to go see some of these desert springs.  A spring is not a bowl of water, like a tinaja, that has a finite amount of water that will dry up if we take too much, and it is not replenished with rain.  It is  water that is constantly pushed up by really hard rock up to the surface.  It flows on the surface for a little ways, then it gets re-absorbed back into the dirt.  If you, or I, or an animal isn't right there at the time it is flowing over the surface, it simply returns underground.   The amount of water that the animal, or you , or I take has no bearing on how much will be pushed up when we leave.  All the water from the springs either evaporates, is absorbed underground out of sight, or we enjoy as a cool drink. 

Find a spring and watch the water flow, it may change your mind about the resource the desert has to offer to us backpackers.  8.23 pounds/ gallon !  That kind of weight should be spent on something valuable.........li ke whiskey   :great:.
For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline mule ears

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #145 on: November 05, 2015, 06:54:44 PM »
  But down in the desert, we like to leave what little water there is for the local fauna.

I understand why many people think this.  The rangers preach it, and common sense makes it seem like a logical conclusion.  But I would encourage you to go see some of these desert springs.  A spring is not a bowl of water, like a tinaja, that has a finite amount of water that will dry up if we take too much, and it is not replenished with rain.  It is  water that is constantly pushed up by really hard rock up to the surface.  It flows on the surface for a little ways, then it gets re-absorbed back into the dirt.  If you, or I, or an animal isn't right there at the time it is flowing over the surface, it simply returns underground.   The amount of water that the animal, or you , or I take has no bearing on how much will be pushed up when we leave.  All the water from the springs either evaporates, is absorbed underground out of sight, or we enjoy as a cool drink. 

Find a spring and watch the water flow, it may change your mind about the resource the desert has to offer to us backpackers.  8.23 pounds/ gallon !  That kind of weight should be spent on something valuable.........li ke whiskey   :great:.

Perfectly said elhombre.  That has always been my thoughts, use it or lose it unless it is truly a water hole like a tinaja and then it depends on how much is there.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 07:09:46 AM by mule ears »
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
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Offline menandlois

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #146 on: November 05, 2015, 08:28:08 PM »
That makes sense... :icon_smile:
We do search out springs sometimes just to see the water, and the flora around it.  Love Smokey creek water...

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Offline Reece

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #147 on: November 06, 2015, 05:45:54 AM »
Concerning ground water conservation: I see myself as part of the fauna on earth not an intruder or a thief. The earth's resources are meant to be used by me but I have the responsibility of being a good steward. The inescapable fact is: "I am part of nature." Depending on ground water for survival brings me closer to the earth and deepens my primal desert experience.


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Offline Lance

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #148 on: November 06, 2015, 08:05:58 AM »
  But down in the desert, we like to leave what little water there is for the local fauna.

I understand why many people think this.  The rangers preach it, and common sense makes it seem like a logical conclusion.  But I would encourage you to go see some of these desert springs.  A spring is not a bowl of water, like a tinaja, that has a finite amount of water that will dry up if we take too much, and it is not replenished with rain.  It is  water that is constantly pushed up by really hard rock up to the surface.  It flows on the surface for a little ways, then it gets re-absorbed back into the dirt.  If you, or I, or an animal isn't right there at the time it is flowing over the surface, it simply returns underground.   The amount of water that the animal, or you , or I take has no bearing on how much will be pushed up when we leave.  All the water from the springs either evaporates, is absorbed underground out of sight, or we enjoy as a cool drink. 

Find a spring and watch the water flow, it may change your mind about the resource the desert has to offer to us backpackers.  8.23 pounds/ gallon !  That kind of weight should be spent on something valuable.........li ke whiskey   :great:.
Well said there sir.  Now pass the 'Old Orchard' if you would..  :icon_wink:

Concerning ground water conservation: I see myself as part of the fauna on earth not an intruder or a thief. The earth's resources are meant to be used by me but I have the responsibility of being a good steward. The inescapable fact is: "I am part of nature." Depending on ground water for survival brings me closer to the earth and deepens my primal desert experience.
Very eloquently put..

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Offline RichardM

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Re: New food and water storage/caching rules, Bear canisters in the Bend
« Reply #149 on: January 01, 2016, 08:29:00 PM »
The ranger(?) who issued us our permit told us to hide the water behind a tree near the trailhead.
I also heard a ranger express an opinion that not using a bear canister for backcountry water storage was ok. I would imagine that enforcement of this regulation will vary depending on the ranger. I would not plan on getting out of a citation by using the excuse of "the other ranger said it was ok!"

 


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