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OK, so this will be controversial...

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Online marufo

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OK, so this will be controversial...
« on: January 28, 2017, 10:51:25 AM »
...but the title of this board does say "Discuss, rant and rave about it here," Let the discussing, ranting and raving begin.

(Photoshopped to delete the LOLs, LMAOs, "I just spit out my coffee"s etc.)


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Offline Flash

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 11:47:25 AM »
Satire? Seems a bit Onionesque to me...  ;)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 01:21:30 PM by Flash »

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 12:00:55 PM »
Lol at the comments.

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Offline Buck

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 07:22:33 AM »
I'm guessing none of those posters have locks on their doors at home or work.  After all, it's everyone's right to come into their home anytime they want under any conditions.  How dare they try and keep out the "dreamers" and the homeless who are, after all, only looking for better opportunities and a better life.  Their couch should be comfy.  The food in their fridges should feed them.  And if one of the "dreamers" kills a member of their family once in a while, it's only a small price to pay for all of the ones who don't, right?

Half of this country has checked its collective common sense.
"Hey, how 'bout a Fandango..?"

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Offline Slimkitty

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 09:56:30 AM »

I'm guessing none of those posters have locks on their doors at home or work.  After all, it's everyone's right to come into their home anytime they want under any conditions.  How dare they try and keep out the "dreamers" and the homeless who are, after all, only looking for better opportunities and a better life.  Their couch should be comfy.  The food in their fridges should feed them.  And if one of the "dreamers" kills a member of their family once in a while, it's only a small price to pay for all of the ones who don't, right?

Half of this country has checked its collective common sense.

When it comes to Big Bend National Park, what the focus of this forum is, a wall along the border would be a tragedy.  Politics aside (seriously), I don't know how anyone could love this park and want to see a wall going through it.  I'm not even talking about anywhere else but through our beloved park.


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Offline presidio

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 11:01:09 AM »
Half of this country has checked its collective common sense.

According to the punditry about election results, it's half the country plus 3 million or so  :willynilly:  that have lost their common sense. It does beg the question, though, whether these folks ever had common sense to lose. Not a lot of data about that.

That said, saying a wall will be built is quite a bit distant from actually building that wall.

The "wall" really is a metaphor for stringent border controls and swift legal/deportation action, rather than a physical installation. However, we'll see how that works out and materializes, or not.

If we were to uniformly and consistently apply the same immigration standards Mexico uses regarding illegal entry to their country (meaning we actually enforce our laws rather than not) the issue would abate quickly to manageable levels (you never will eliminate it entirely). By the same token, Canada has tough entry standards for immigration (despite their rhetoric). Try entering Canada with a criminal conviction record and see how far you get.

Lost in the hysteria is the answer to the question: what part of "illegal" don't you understand?
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline dprather

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 02:55:15 PM »
The "wall" really is a metaphor for stringent border controls and swift legal/deportation action, rather than a physical installation.

+1
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline Txlj

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 04:02:13 PM »
A good portion of the wall is in the park, underground sensors are everywhere. If you drive to and from the park, the road has them. A wall can be more than a physical barrier.

As for a physical wall, I would fight against it with the best. The beauty of the Bend would be destroyed and a blight created. As for common sense, that died many years ago in America.

Sent from flat land


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Offline Jimbow

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 06:06:32 PM »
Common sense tells me that an immigration system that makes it easier for someone to come here and take a $80,000 job than a minimum wage job is flawed.

Building a wall so immigrants with high paying jobs have enough of our citizens to work for them is crazy.

So yes half the country has lost their common sense. What part of protecting middle class jobs don't people understand? But focus on protecting minimum wage jobs for our citizens lol

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Offline presidio

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 06:59:40 PM »
Common sense tells me that an immigration system that makes it easier for someone to come here and take a $80,000 job than a minimum wage job is flawed.

Building a wall so immigrants with high paying jobs have enough of our citizens to work for them is crazy.

I have zero issue with legal immigration, regardless of what someone might make or who might work for them. After all, it's part of what "makes this nation great," literally.

I am unaware of any 1st world nation that does not want the best and brightest immigrants. How is that flawed? Why would you only want immigrants to have only minimum wage jobs? Why would any nation want less than the best? Immigrants must be contributors, not liabilities that drag on every aspect of society.

Usually, but of course not always, many of those best and brightest become citizens, and we all gain. Even if they don't, where's the problem with them running a company and providing good jobs for employees? As long as they legally are present, again, there is zero issue.

History overflows with examples of immigrants doing their best for us rather than from whence they came.

Like most contentious issues we now face, we don't have a (insert name of) problem; we have an enforcement/responsibility problem. Lots of laws, little action to use them. But, when we do enforce those laws, the hand-wringing and wailing begins that we don't "care" enough (or some other fabricated excuse) and must keep looking the other way (presumably because it's not nice to hold people accountable for their actions).
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
We decide who is legal and who is illegal by a stroke of a pen. No one talks about limiting immigrants who are taking high paying jobs. Why? I believe it's a nice smokescreen for votes but politicians don't want the cure,  it's too expensive.

Instead of a wall a guest worker program that actually helps American business,  especially agriculture operate would be beneficial.



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Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 07:17:30 PM »
Spot on, Presidio. 

Regarding the wall hysteria, it's getting a bit ludicrous.  Everyone needs to breath and chill. Take a ride to Elephant Tusk, turn on some Pink Floyd (the Wall, if you must), kick back on your Jeep hood, pop a brew (or smoke a bowl, whatever) and look up at the clear dark sky. A physical wall through BBNP is not going to happen.



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Offline iCe

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 07:22:59 PM »
Spot on, Presidio. 

Regarding the wall hysteria, it's getting a bit ludicrous.  Everyone needs to breath and chill. Take a ride to Elephant Tusk, turn on some Pink Floyd (the Wall, if you must), kick back on your Jeep hood, pop a brew (or smoke a bowl, whatever) and look up at the clear dark sky. A physical wall through BBNP is not going to happen.



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 :eusa_clap:


It's not Roger Waters but I think it's a great version and David Gilmore's solo is outstanding. Two the members in this video have passed on



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Offline tbone

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 10:19:45 PM »
Instead of a wall a guest worker program that actually helps American business,  especially agriculture operate would be beneficial.
Bring back the Bracero Program!

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Offline presidio

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Re: OK, so this will be controversial...
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 12:43:43 AM »
We decide who is legal and who is illegal by a stroke of a pen.

Generally, that occurs via what we call laws, but sometimes executive fiat or artful interpretation.

There's no perfect system, but when no one even attempts to enforce standards and expectations you end up with the problem we now have with the estimated 11 million illegals.

A good example of this is the utterly incomprehensible flaw whereby illegals are not immediately deported, but frequently released on their own recognizance and that's the last you see of them. Essentially, "you're busted, but have a nice day until we someday decide to get around to trying to find and deal with you."

What kind of political genius is that?

Well, in the words of Major Clipton in The Bridge on the River Kwai, he observes (in the very last line of the movie): Madness! Madness!

Pretty well sums up how we got here.

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Instead of a wall a guest worker program that actually helps American business,  especially agriculture operate would be beneficial.

Yes it would, and it's been done in the past with great success. The failing is when there's no enforcement of the terms of guest worker permits and said workers disappear into the undocumented labyrinth and overstay their visas.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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