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Patterson welcomes return of Second Amendment rights to some National Parks

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Offline presidio

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Of course they won't be thrilled and a lot of them probably will lobby against it.

Then there's still a chance sanity will prevail.

I would direct you to your own tagline, but obviously you don't see the connection.

Quote from: uh_clem
"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:35:38 PM by presidio »
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline uh_clem

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I saw them all with double guns strapped to each thigh, it was the coolest thing I had seen.... all these guys riding their Iron Horses down the road and side arms strapped to their thighs.... like a modern day cowboy.



 :rolling:


Moderator note:  I think I'll let Casa Grande moderate this topic since he started it...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:50:17 PM by RichardM »
I'll be the jump start for the car parked in your mind, 'Cause you left the lights on all night long.

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Offline LandCruisers4Life

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Of course they won't be thrilled and a lot of them probably will lobby against it.

Then there's still a chance sanity will prevail.

Uh Clem:

Sanity? Look at your avatar and ask me to take you seriously.

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Offline LandCruisers4Life

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Personally, I think we should go to Arizona ways. You can carry a side arm on the street openly, no permit required.

NM is the same. NM law does not expressly allow openly wearing a firearm, but the law only addresses unlawful 'concealed' carry, thus wearing a handgun in a belt holster is permissible.

Yes New Mexico is similar in their laws. When I went backpacking in Carson National Forest up there in around 1989, I wore a 44 magnum on my hip because the bears were coming out of hybernation and wanted a little friend in case I met up with a hungry one.

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Offline walkerik

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Huh?  What is all this about?  Did you know that you can drive into Big Bend NP with a firearm right now, today....it just has to be unloaded.  What is the big deal? 

Please tell me of an incident in Big Bend NP that anyone has had personally where you needed a loaded firearm.  When I bring my friends and family to Big Bend National Park the last thing I would bring is a loaded firearm. You are more likely to have a reason for a loaded firearm in a Wal-Mart parking lot than a National Park.

I have hiked over 9000 miles in Big Bend NP and never once have I needed a gun.  I guess it is the principle for y'all, but you can bring your gun...it just can't be loaded.

C'mon....there are bigger fish to fry.  I will also submit my comments.

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Offline presidio

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Of course they won't be thrilled and a lot of them probably will lobby against it.

Then there's still a chance sanity will prevail.

Uh Clem:

Sanity? Look at your avatar and ask me to take you seriously.

 :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: Good point.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Casa Grande

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Please tell me of an incident in Big Bend NP that anyone has had personally where you needed a loaded firearm. 

of course this isn't the point....I own a gun, I can carry legally in Texas, but I usually don't.  I haven't carried in the park in a really long time, because I think it is unneccessary.....bu t, again, that isn't the point. The point is, IT IS AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.  Need is another question entirely.

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Offline presidio

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Huh?  What is all this about?  Did you know that you can drive into Big Bend NP with a firearm right now, today....it just has to be unloaded.  What is the big deal?
 

A search of the archives will enlighten you.

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Please tell me of an incident in Big Bend NP that anyone has had personally where you needed a loaded firearm.  When I bring my friends and family to Big Bend National Park the last thing I would bring is a loaded firearm. You are more likely to have a reason for a loaded firearm in a Wal-Mart parking lot than a National Park.

Well, for one, I imagine the fellow who was murdered in his tent in Pine Springs some years ago would have like to have had some way to defend himself. There were no rangers there to protect him; and one of the pervasive mantras is that the rangers are there to protect you so you don't need a weapon. That would be BS and in a large pile. The crime has never been solved. Does murder make the cut??????

The point about WalMart is good. So what is it about national parks that you think is so different that the right of possessing a functional weapon should be banned? The criminal element does in fact visit NPS areas and they don't suddenly morph into Kumbayah mode when they enter. Are you afraid of someone lawfully possessing a firearm in a national park but not concerned about the same thing downtown? That kind of logic escapes me. Given that the change only will affect permitted concealed carry licensees, how will you ever know? If you don't think that unlawful concealed carry isn't already occurring in parks, you are fooling yourself. So, absent perhaps your desire to eliminate guns entirely from the world, would you rather have legal or illegal concealed carry? How does this affect you in any manner, especially if you choose to not carry? It doesn't. Just like concealed carry does not affect you anywhere else in Texas.

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I have hiked over 9000 miles in Big Bend NP and never once have I needed a gun.  I guess it is the principle for y'all, but you can bring your gun...it just can't be loaded.

9,000 miles! I'm impressed! Guess you don't carry a first aid kit because you've never needed to use one? Or, survival equipment? Or a spare tire or jack (never needed 'em). Oh, wait a minute. SOMEHOW, that is different. I'm genuinely happy you've never had a problem. Neither have I, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen. Spend some time reading the glorious Morning Report where you can learn about marvelous feats of rangering. Pay particular attention to the reports of serious crime in the parks....homicides, robberies, rapes, etc. No, it's not like Chicago, but it does occur. If you hang out solely in the developed areas where the employees also spend most of their time, you might well never encounter any issues. If you are way out in the backcountry, no employee will ever be there to protect you if you need it. An aware person plans and is prepares for the unexpected. Sometimes, those unexpected events are life and death emergencies.

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C'mon....there are bigger fish to fry.  I will also submit my comments.

Please do.
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<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Ay Chihuahua!

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Of course they won't be thrilled and a lot of them probably will lobby against it.

Then there's still a chance sanity will prevail.

Uh Clem:

Sanity? Look at your avatar and ask me to take you seriously.


 
:eusa_eh:


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Offline badknees

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Patterson said the ban on carrying concealed firearms in national parks was unconstitutional and never should have been inflicted on Americans these past 25 years.

Like I said earlier, the law was wrong. Unconstitutional, and it's about time someone did something about it.

As well, Texas Law states that anyone travelling more than two counties from their place of residence, it allowed to carry a firearm in their vehicle.

Actually the "Friendly Travel" statutes have been ammended in 2007. The current law allows carry in a motor vehicle regardless of the travel distance or any "county" provision. It povides for unlicensed carry in or to a motor vehicle. It does not permit unlicensed concealed carry elswhere.

" H.B. 1815 Traveling & Unlicensed Carry
ē Allows the unlicensed carrying of a concealed handgun inside or directly en route to the person's motor vehicle.
Amends Section 46.02, Penal Code to add Subsection (a-1) and (a-2):
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife or club if the person is not:
(1) on the personís own premises or premises under the personís control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the personís control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the personís control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic:
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
Not all those who wander are lost.
Ė J.R.R. Tolkien

Through the Mirror
http://mirrormagic.com

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Offline LandCruisers4Life

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Good to know, thanks badknees. At least FORWARD progress was made. All too often, the government tries to get rid of these statutes to 'make us safe'... safe from who??

I'll bet those people who were murdered at Lubys years ago wish there were a few armed citizens to whack out the maniac who came in and murdered so many innocents. I for one would have stood up and put a bullet in his head straight away.



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Offline presidio

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I'll bet those people who were murdered at Lubys years ago wish there were a few armed citizens to whack out the maniac who came in and murdered so many innocents. I for one would have stood up and put a bullet in his head straight away.

That incident is the principal reason why concealed carry exists in TX today. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, who was a gun owner went there with her parents for lunch. Being law abiding, she left her gun in the car because she could not legally carry a concealed weapon. Both her parents were killed, she was outraged at being denied the right of self-protection and campaigned strenuously for concealed carry. Shortly after the bill was passed she ran for the state legislature and was elected.

During testimony she expressed regret for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car, rather than keeping it on her person. This is the dilemma law abiding people face in the arena of laws conflicting with common sense. However, had she violated the restrictions on her right to carry at the time, there is no doubt she would have been no-billed by a grand jury and congratulated for taking action.

She made a great statement about the 2nd Amendment:

'How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of.' That perfectly describes the attitude of the NPS.

There is a great video of Hupp testifying before a congressional committee that has the staunch trampler of rights Charles Schumer in attendance. I will find it and post a link later.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 08:51:13 AM by presidio »
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline walkerik

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Please tell me of an incident in Big Bend NP that anyone has had personally where you needed a loaded firearm.

Well, for one, I imagine the fellow who was murdered in his tent in Pine Springs some years ago would have like to have had some way to defend himself. There were no rangers there to protect him; and one of the pervasive mantras is that the rangers are there to protect you so you don't need a weapon. That would be BS and in a large pile. The crime has never been solved. Does murder make the cut??????



The statement above does not appear to be a personal account and is just a random incident with no real bite to it.  I can not speak for other National Parks, but Big Bend has to have one of the lowest murder rates of anywhere in the US given nearly 400,000 people visit the Park every year.  Furthermore you are more likely to be killed by a swarm of bees than murdered in Big Bend NP.  I can see this argument being different for other National Parks.


9,000 miles! I'm impressed! Guess you don't carry a first aid kit because you've never needed to use one? Or, survival equipment? Or a spare tire or jack (never needed 'em). Oh, wait a minute. SOMEHOW, that is different. I'm genuinely happy you've never had a problem. Neither have I, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen. Spend some time reading the glorious Morning Report where you can learn about marvelous feats of rangering. Pay particular attention to the reports of serious crime in the parks....homicides, robberies, rapes, etc. No, it's not like Chicago, but it does occur. If you hang out solely in the developed areas where the employees also spend most of their time, you might well never encounter any issues. If you are way out in the backcountry, no employee will ever be there to protect you if you need it. An aware person plans and is prepares for the unexpected. Sometimes, those unexpected events are life and death emergencies.

I would say that 95% of my time has been hiking in the backcountry of Big Bend NP.  I always carry a first aid kit, lots of water, maps, compass, etc., but never thought to bring a gun.  It isn't different, but I also don't like to carry what I don't need and a large rock and a knife could likely take command of any situation I might encounter.  I have been on numerous Search and Rescues in Big Bend NP and I know first hand what visitors get themselves into, but 99.9% of the time a gun would not have solved anything.  A gun won't get you out from being lost nor will it quench your thirst nor will it heal a broken leg.  No, I am NOT a ranger!

My beef comes from the fact that no one has mentioned protecting wildlife.  We all like our merit badges based on what we have seen here in the Bend, but did you stop to think that not everyone is responsible with guns(this is NOT directed at anyone here).  Big Bend NP is here so we can preserve the plants and animals as well as recreate in this tremendous area, but poachers could easily destroy the populations of mountain lions, black bears, javelinas, etc.   

I support our Constitutional Rights and I do see your perspective in part, but it is a lot like the smoking issue.  Now we can't smoke just anywhere, but that is because we are looking out for the health of others.  I see this in somewhat the same way.  We are looking out for those populations of animals who can't speak, but their health may be threatened by our actions.

If you want to protect yourself in Big Bend NP be careful when you are driving in the Park.  The most common accident in Big Bend NP is the one car roll-over.....


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Offline Peach

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[If you want to protect yourself in Big Bend NP be careful when you are driving in the Park.  The most common accident in Big Bend NP is the one car roll-over.....



We went to listen to a lecture on snakes when we were in BiBe last and that's one of the statistics the ranger pointed out....that the most common accident was the one car roll over....

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Offline Casa Grande

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I am so tired of this car accidents equals gun toting crazy people argument is is tiring, irrelevant and I haven't the energy to comment further on it any more....somewhere on this board in another discussion on this issue and the same boring car argument is used.  My comments there are the same comments here.

Regarding crazy/irresponsible people with guns....um, crazy/irresponsible people aren't going to pay attention to a gun ban law or a sign on the side o f the road that says, no guns...duh.

 


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