Friends of Big Bend National Park
Big Bend Conservancy

Over-estimating your experience or under-estimating the terrain in a place like Big Bend can result in serious injury or death. Use the information and advice found here wisely. Climb/Hike/Camp/Drive at your own risk.


The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out

  • 51 Replies
  • 2254 Views
*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3357
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2018, 11:53:43 PM »
I had noted the difference in camping radius around Mariscal Mine.  When planning our Dec. trip I carefully adhered to the .5 mile radius, 2 miles would have made it nearly impossible to walk the spine of the mountain and get an additional 2 miles away.  Guess the Fresno site is exempted.

It still is unknown whether this is a change or merely a typo.

The park could answer that here but we know they won't.

If it's an error, the NPS is unlikely to admit it.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline RichardM

  • Admin/Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 7471
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2018, 09:25:15 AM »
I had noted the difference in camping radius around Mariscal Mine.  When planning our Dec. trip I carefully adhered to the .5 mile radius, 2 miles would have made it nearly impossible to walk the spine of the mountain and get an additional 2 miles away.  Guess the Fresno site is exempted.

It still is unknown whether this is a change or merely a typo.

The park could answer that here but we know they won't.

If it's an error, the NPS is unlikely to admit it.
To get a response from the park, try https://www.nps.gov/bibe/contacts.htm

*

Offline Flash

  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1802
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2018, 09:34:44 AM »
I had noted the difference in camping radius around Mariscal Mine.  When planning our Dec. trip I carefully adhered to the .5 mile radius, 2 miles would have made it nearly impossible to walk the spine of the mountain and get an additional 2 miles away.  Guess the Fresno site is exempted.

It still is unknown whether this is a change or merely a typo.

The park could answer that here but we know they won't.

If it's an error, the NPS is unlikely to admit it.
To get a response from the park, try https://www.nps.gov/bibe/contacts.htm
Suggest not asking if the new number is correct. Instead inform them there is an obvious typo...

*

Offline Casa Grande

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 6108
  • Bending It Since 1991
    • Virtual Big Bend
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2018, 11:39:08 AM »


Suggest not asking if the new number is correct. Instead inform them there is an obvious typo...

That'll be a hoot. Just be sure to tell them you're from BBC, that'll make them happy.   Come to think of it,  maybe I should do that, they'll like that even better.

*

Offline Casa Grande

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 6108
  • Bending It Since 1991
    • Virtual Big Bend
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2018, 11:52:04 AM »
The Compendium is all about minutely controlling you rather than allowing your enjoyment of the park.

Absolutely. 

As demonstrated by my recent little public "chat" with a PJ minion on Facebook.

Do what you're told, ask only questions we can answer,  buy our stuff, and go away.

The little amount of speaking I do with Park Service personnel when I'm there is too much.

And that's sad because there was a time I found many them there to be my friends. Many of whom were at my wedding in the park 12 years ago.   They have since either moved away entirely,  retired,  or have been told to discredit BBC and therefore me. Very sad indeed.

The NPS in BIBE is in serious need of some good PR people. But that would mean they'd have to care.

Anyway,  sorry. I digress.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 12:04:03 PM by Casa Grande »

*

Offline Homer Wilson

  • Black Bear
  • *
  • 560
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2018, 12:59:10 PM »
1 - On the compendium PDF - I thought all federal agencies had to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Acts, which I think requires all publications to be in an accessible format (ie actual text, not an image in the PDF).  If I'm right about this, isn't this a violation?

2 - I very recently got a zone camping permit.  They asked if I had a bear canister.  I said no.  They said to make sure my food was very close by.  That would in keeping with what is posted on the website:
Quote
All food, water, food products, food trash, unclean cooking utensils and other aromatic items must be stored in a hard-sided vehicle, or provided bear resistant storage locker –unless items are closely attended and within arms-reach.
I assume they can't deny a permit for someone who follows the above guidelines while it is posted on the website? And if it changes, I would hope they set a date for when it will take effect that is publicly available?  But I can see an outcome where they change it overnight, and then deny a permit  to some poor soul who was in compliance with what the website showed when he left his house

3 - To Casa Grande's post above - When has this site given out bad advice?  When has this site not urged personal caution or respect for the park? When has it promoted not following the rules?  We may gripe about things, but we all love the park and want to preserve it.  Look at the web address Mule Ears has for the Compendium.  What casual visitor would have dug that up?  But this site has made that available so people can begin be aware of new rules and make changes to their gear or plans to follow them.  And how many people has this site's detailed documentation of the OML helped be much better prepared or discouraged from doing it?  I'm sure an S&R or two has been avoided thanks to that info. 

*

Offline Casa Grande

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 6108
  • Bending It Since 1991
    • Virtual Big Bend
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2018, 01:14:26 PM »

1 - On the compendium PDF - I thought all federal agencies had to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Acts, which I think requires all publications to be in an accessible format (ie actual text, not an image in the PDF).  If I'm right about this, isn't this a violation?
Good point,  and I believe it does.   Text to speech is not possible  from images, as far as I know.



3 - To Casa Grande's post above - When has this site given out bad advice?  When has this site not urged personal caution or respect for the park? When has it promoted not following the rules?  We may gripe about things, but we all love the park and want to preserve it.  Look at the web address Mule Ears has for the Compendium.  What casual visitor would have dug that up?  But this site has made that available so people can begin be aware of new rules and make changes to their gear or plans to follow them.  And how many people has this site's detailed documentation of the OML helped be much better prepared or discouraged from doing it?  I'm sure an S&R or two has been avoided thanks to that info.

Perfectly said.   And that is because of the generosity from people like you,  HW! So thank you!



Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app

*

Offline Talusman

  • Black Bear
  • *
  • 509
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2018, 02:14:13 PM »

1 - On the compendium PDF - I thought all federal agencies had to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Acts, which I think requires all publications to be in an accessible format (ie actual text, not an image in the PDF).  If I'm right about this, isn't this a violation?
Good point,  and I believe it does.   Text to speech is not possible  from images, as far as I know.



3 - To Casa Grande's post above - When has this site given out bad advice?  When has this site not urged personal caution or respect for the park? When has it promoted not following the rules?  We may gripe about things, but we all love the park and want to preserve it.  Look at the web address Mule Ears has for the Compendium.  What casual visitor would have dug that up?  But this site has made that available so people can begin be aware of new rules and make changes to their gear or plans to follow them.  And how many people has this site's detailed documentation of the OML helped be much better prepared or discouraged from doing it?  I'm sure an S&R or two has been avoided thanks to that info.

Perfectly said.   And that is because of the generosity from people like you,  HW! So thank you!



Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app

Ditto!
"To Think is easy. To Act is difficult. To Act as one Thinks is the most difficult!"

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3357
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2018, 04:33:25 PM »


Suggest not asking if the new number is correct. Instead inform them there is an obvious typo...

That'll be a hoot. Just be sure to tell them you're from BBC, that'll make them happy.   Come to think of it,  maybe I should do that, they'll like that even better.

I defer to your superior status as an aggravator of the NPS.  :notworthy:

Perhaps you could point them to the 2018 comparison so they don't have to go looking for where the Compendium is hidden?  :s_laugh:

_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline Casa Grande

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 6108
  • Bending It Since 1991
    • Virtual Big Bend
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2018, 04:42:05 PM »


I defer to your superior status as an aggravator of the NPS.  :notworthy:

I don't know about "superior," but I certainly don't try to hide behind the false  anonymity of the internet.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app


*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3357
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2018, 05:25:46 PM »
1 - On the compendium PDF - I thought all federal agencies had to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Acts, which I think requires all publications to be in an accessible format (ie actual text, not an image in the PDF).  If I'm right about this, isn't this a violation?

You make a very good point I had not previously considered. A document in image format cannot be "read" by software for the visually impaired.

Quote
I assume they can't deny a permit for someone who follows the above guidelines while it is posted on the website?

Past events have shown that doesn't always pan out.

Quote
But I can see an outcome where they change it overnight, and then deny a permit  to some poor soul who was in compliance with what the website showed when he left his house

Or, they incorrectly interpret their own rules.

Quote
To Casa Grande's post above - When has this site given out bad advice?  When has this site not urged personal caution or respect for the park? When has it promoted not following the rules?

Bad advice never has been deliberately been offered as far as I can remember. As for the other two, it's doubtful any examples to the contrary could be found.

All-in-all, the forums do a good job. It's just that the NPS doesn't like competition, but they avoid numerous times they could have participated. Responding here would be no different from answering a phone call, letter, or email, but the agency cannot seem to be bothered by a more efficient form of communication that reaches a far wider audience and thus presumably would result in better knowledge and fewer problems. But, their voice is drowned out by crickets.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline tjavery

  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 1501
  • foto nut
    • http://www.thomasjavery.com/proj_big_bend
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2018, 10:56:25 AM »
I'm planning an overnight backpacking trip for my family. This will involve zone camping. After reading the compendium, I think I understand the rule to mean that you either keep your smelly-type items (food, toothpaste, wipes, and even water  :icon_rolleyes:) on you at all times, or you put it into a bear-proof container.

Our plan may involve making a base camp somewhere, and then venturing out a little ways. In that case, some of the smelly-type items will be left behind at base camp, and we will need bear-proof containers to comply with the rules.

With me so far? Any advice or correction would be appreciated.

So, if these containers are really needed, is there a list of approved models somewhere? Or is there some type of regulatory rating or stamp of approval to look for when getting these so called bear-proof containers?

*

Offline mule ears

  • Golden Eagle
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3924
  • "He had to leave Texas but won't say why" McMurtry
    • 40 years of walking
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2018, 11:52:41 AM »
I'm planning an overnight backpacking trip for my family. This will involve zone camping. After reading the compendium, I think I understand the rule to mean that you either keep your smelly-type items (food, toothpaste, wipes, and even water  :icon_rolleyes:) on you at all times, or you put it into a bear-proof container.

Our plan may involve making a base camp somewhere, and then venturing out a little ways. In that case, some of the smelly-type items will be left behind at base camp, and we will need bear-proof containers to comply with the rules.

With me so far? Any advice or correction would be appreciated.

So, if these containers are really needed, is there a list of approved models somewhere? Or is there some type of regulatory rating or stamp of approval to look for when getting these so called bear-proof containers?

TJ here is the NPS food page with the approved containers.  I would recommend the Bear Vault as the best value for cost, weight and ease of use. 

The other option is to just carry your smelly stuff with you when you go dayhike and then no need for a container.
temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
minimum 1 gallon water per person/day
no shade, no water
http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3357
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2018, 12:05:07 PM »
With me so far? Any advice or correction would be appreciated.

Wishing you 'good luck' with that seems appropriate.


Quote
So, if these containers are really needed, is there a list of approved models somewhere? Or is there some type of regulatory rating or stamp of approval to look for when getting these so called bear-proof containers?

Go to https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/bc_foodstorage.htm for the official NPS stamp of approval for such items.

However, if you also search for this topic on their website you will get a hit for https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/bc_regulations.htm
When you click on the link under 'food storage' you will get an immediate 404 error because the agency has hamfisted the URL into this special example of coding expertise:
https://www.nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/nps.gov/bibe/planyourvisit/bc_foodstorage.htm

Apparently they don't bother to test the links they post.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

*

Offline presidio

  • Soaptree Yucca
  • Mountain Lion
  • *
  • 3357
Re: The 2018 Superintendents Compendium is out
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2018, 12:15:36 PM »
The other option is to just carry your smelly stuff with you when you go dayhike and then no need for a container.

Definitely the way to go. While this extra weight will slow you down while strolling on day hikes, you will have everything you need to discard as distractors while you run from the bear.

Not unlike spreading chaff to confuse radar targeting aircraft.

Be sure to toss the worst smelling stuff first for best effect. In the best case, if the most odoriferous items also are the heaviest, your escape speed will then increase and the bear will take the bait.

Everybody wins.

Keep in mind that unless you are alone, you only have to outpace your companion(s), so you may not even have to break a sweat (or need to toss everything).
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


©COPYRIGHT NOTICE

All photographs and content posted by members are to be considered copyrighted by their respective owners and may not be used for any purposes, commercial or otherwise, without permission.

+-Calendar For Sale

 2018 BigBendChat Calendar on sale now!

Powered by EzPortal

Facebook Comments