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Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?

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Offline rocketman

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2020, 05:52:44 PM »
I would postulate that commercial wind harvesting produces a net gain in the amount of energy within the atmospheric system due to heat radiation from friction. I have no data to back that up, but I'm sure there are studies available that address the amount of joules required to spin those things vs the heat produced by their operation (excluding some spectacular fires). In fact, I have a friend in the industry, I'll ask him.
Making ice cubes FROM THE SUN!!!

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Offline dprather

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2020, 06:29:09 PM »
All I knows is that the powers that be on BBC have had to bite my tongue a time or two - and I have appreciated their better sense.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline wotantx

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2020, 07:13:49 PM »
I have often said that politics and religion are not topics for polite company, so I tend to steer clear of such things. The discussion of hurricane forecasts, for instance, is something that sticks in my craw due to very recent events of a political nature. I hope I didn't have hostile undertones in I post.

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Offline iCe

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2020, 07:31:10 PM »

I would postulate that commercial wind harvesting produces a net gain in the amount of energy within the atmospheric system due to heat radiation from friction. I have no data to back that up, but I'm sure there are studies available that address the amount of joules required to spin those things vs the heat produced by their operation (excluding some spectacular fires). In fact, I have a friend in the industry, I'll ask him.


I stopped dealing with tic's a long time ago. They can cause a fever in some...

I have no idea so I asked the question. I just know there are no free rides. The heat that is put back is just heat from the inefficiency of the mechanism but I suppose it counts. I don't think it would grossly affect velocity of the wind and it would be a vertical component (vector). For every Megawatt generated there is a Megawatt plus "a little" taken out of the wind field. I just looked it up, 1 Megawatt = 3,412,141.16 BTU/Hr. 3.5 million btu's an hour or about 550 HP. The newer generators are capable of 2-3MW. Wikipedia says there are 10,700 wind gens operating in TX. The energy removed is no small number but then again, maybe it is compared to what the sun puts on us (170-ish Petawatts, of which 30% gets reflected back out to space. Dang clouds). Like I said, I really have no idea other than how the math works out and of course I'm thinking on my scale not globally.


ME is a traveller... so I'm assuming that he's covered the same ground that I have (I make the run from Weimar, TX to Farmington, NM at least a dozen times a year and I try very hard not to go the same way every time).

Maybe I see a lot of them because I can't stand the ugliness, the fact that they kill birds (not sure how that relates to hunting, which I have no issues with if it's done legally), and I know they don't support themselves financially (friends in high places in the power industry that know what it cost to generate power in the various ways and relatives in not so high places that work in peak shaving plants which are what replaces the power that we don't get when the wind doesn't blow. Think along the lines of 2X what they say they cost)


Fun factoid - Here in NM my electric bill in the winter, when I'm here, heating with propane and wood pellets, was $46.00. In Texas, thermostat set at 72, all electric, nobody home = $135.00 ish. 3x... My first thought for the discrepancy - my power in FMN is from a big coal fired plant with local supplies (allegedly it's going down next year, we'll see). My power in TX is from a coal fired plant near La Grange. It's fuel source is rail cars from WY, MT, etc. Plus peak shavers (natural gas fired engines), and the South Texas Nuclear Project.

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Offline iCe

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2020, 07:37:22 PM »
I have often said that politics and religion are not topics for polite company, so I tend to steer clear of such things. The discussion of hurricane forecasts, for instance, is something that sticks in my craw due to very recent events of a political nature. I hope I didn't have hostile undertones in I post.

--
I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app


If I offended you I sincerely apologize. If something happened in that regard (tics) I have no way to be aware of it. I don't actively seek out any news agencies, most of the time the radio volume goes to zero when the news comes on, and I skim FB for friend and family maybe 5m a day, so, in short, I wasn't aware of anything related to the weather and tics.


Having been through a few hurricanes (Carla is as far back as I can go and I suspect my memory of that is really just memories of pictures) and since weather is critical to surviving a cross country flight in a small plane without an instrument rating or with come to think of it), I'm probably overly passionate about it. I can condense that entire wad of text I typed earlier into - I wish they wouldn't show those dang spaghetti models or at least wait until there is more confidence in them.

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Offline wotantx

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2020, 08:03:01 PM »
I have often said that politics and religion are not topics for polite company, so I tend to steer clear of such things. The discussion of hurricane forecasts, for instance, is something that sticks in my craw due to very recent events of a political nature. I hope I didn't have hostile undertones in I post.

--
I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app


If I offended you I sincerely apologize. If something happened in that regard (tics) I have no way to be aware of it. I don't actively seek out any news agencies, most of the time the radio volume goes to zero when the news comes on, and I skim FB for friend and family maybe 5m a day, so, in short, I wasn't aware of anything related to the weather and tics.


Having been through a few hurricanes (Carla is as far back as I can go and I suspect my memory of that is really just memories of pictures) and since weather is critical to surviving a cross country flight in a small plane without an instrument rating or with come to think of it), I'm probably overly passionate about it. I can condense that entire wad of text I typed earlier into - I wish they wouldn't show those dang spaghetti models or at least wait until there is more confidence in them.
Of I am in no way offended. This just inexplicably became a hot button for me a few months about. And with a background in the physical sciences (geology, to be exact), this is also important to me.

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I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2020, 08:19:25 PM »

I like to think of myself as one of your conservative, liberal, neutral, politically ignorant, libertarian friends.


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Offline iCe

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2020, 08:22:25 PM »
I have often said that politics and religion are not topics for polite company, so I tend to steer clear of such things. The discussion of hurricane forecasts, for instance, is something that sticks in my craw due to very recent events of a political nature. I hope I didn't have hostile undertones in I post.

--
I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app


If I offended you I sincerely apologize. If something happened in that regard (tics) I have no way to be aware of it. I don't actively seek out any news agencies, most of the time the radio volume goes to zero when the news comes on, and I skim FB for friend and family maybe 5m a day, so, in short, I wasn't aware of anything related to the weather and tics.


Having been through a few hurricanes (Carla is as far back as I can go and I suspect my memory of that is really just memories of pictures) and since weather is critical to surviving a cross country flight in a small plane without an instrument rating or with come to think of it), I'm probably overly passionate about it. I can condense that entire wad of text I typed earlier into - I wish they wouldn't show those dang spaghetti models or at least wait until there is more confidence in them.
Of I am in no way offended. This just inexplicably became a hot button for me a few months about. And with a background in the physical sciences (geology, to be exact), this is also important to me.

--
I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app

I'm glad I didn't offend you. There's no value in it. Sometimes it's hard to have a conversation these days
I only flare up during and after hurricane season  :icon_lol:

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Offline wotantx

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2020, 08:34:00 PM »
I have often said that politics and religion are not topics for polite company, so I tend to steer clear of such things. The discussion of hurricane forecasts, for instance, is something that sticks in my craw due to very recent events of a political nature. I hope I didn't have hostile undertones in I post.

--
I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app


If I offended you I sincerely apologize. If something happened in that regard (tics) I have no way to be aware of it. I don't actively seek out any news agencies, most of the time the radio volume goes to zero when the news comes on, and I skim FB for friend and family maybe 5m a day, so, in short, I wasn't aware of anything related to the weather and tics.


Having been through a few hurricanes (Carla is as far back as I can go and I suspect my memory of that is really just memories of pictures) and since weather is critical to surviving a cross country flight in a small plane without an instrument rating or with come to think of it), I'm probably overly passionate about it. I can condense that entire wad of text I typed earlier into - I wish they wouldn't show those dang spaghetti models or at least wait until there is more confidence in them.
Of I am in no way offended. This just inexplicably became a hot button for me a few months about. And with a background in the physical sciences (geology, to be exact), this is also important to me.

--
I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app

I'm glad I didn't offend you. There's no value in it. Sometimes it's hard to have a conversation these days
I only flare up during and after hurricane season  :icon_lol:
You hit the nail on the head. My "not for polite society" comment is exactly because of how polarized we have become. Time was you could have reasoned disagreements about such things.

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I also post images to my Twitter account @BigBendPics.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Big Bend Chat mobile app


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Offline elhombre

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2020, 09:42:51 AM »
I like the path the ICE is walking down.  Something further to throw into the mix is the newly observed magnetic field changes taking place on our sweet little earth.  The predicted magnetic field models for the future has been throw out the window.  In terms of strength, the earth apparently was loosing 5% of its strength over the past centuries.  Most recently, it is loosing strength at the rate or 5% each decade. And that is accelerating.   If a person looks at that percentage loss in the same light as compound interest, the strength is much, much lower.  Second, the magnetic poles have began moving away from the geographic poles at an accelerated rate.  This unpredicted movement is the main reason why the models have had to be thrown out the window.  There is even a huge magnetic weak spot off the coast of Brazil that shows up on satellites that looks like a fire out in the ocean.  NASA has had to reprogram the satellite data observations to avoid looking at it.

So, Ice makes the argument that the magnetic fields play a observable effect on weather on the earth.  It is now being observed the magnetic field is changing rapidly, and unpredictable.  So maybe, there is something going on with the weather due to the magnetic field....
 
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-shows-that-earth-s-magnetic-field-is-weakening-more-rapidly-than-we-thought
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/world-magnetic-model-out-cycle-release

I get the political part.  There is a lot of emotion tied up in it.  One thing is obvious.  Many people have grown up over the last 25 years being told that the world is going to end soon due to Global warming.  We all have survived, and we are seeing that those predictions were wrong.  The NPS was wrong when they made the signs at Glacier.  I've been Port A, and have seen that the ocean level is at the same place it has always been for the past 40 years.  Crop production is above expectation.  (search it).  ect...

Put it another way;  Your trusted doctor tells you that you are going to die in 2 years.  You go around and live your life, telling all your relatives and friends you're going to die.  You get your finances in order thinking you are going to die.  You tell everyone to change their lifestyles or else they will die just like you.  BUT,..... you don't die.  You did have the usual cedar fever, and you got the flu one winter, But you didn't die.  The doctor was wrong. 
         So who are you mad at?  Are you mad at the doctor who was wrong and told you that you were going to die all the time ?   Or do you go out and get infuriated at your relatives that point out, "Wow' You aren't dead like they said you would be?" 

Maybe you need to look for a new doctor....

« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 10:03:15 AM by elhombre »
If other countries on the planet want to see America suffer and ultimately destroyed, who are they cheering for right now?  Trump, or the leftist democrats and their media supported hate machine?

Seek out the facts for yourself.  Begin by using Startpage.com,  not google.

May God Bless America!

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Offline steelfrog

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2020, 10:34:23 AM »
Politically-biased people who know zip about a subject debating the subject, which has nothing to do with Big Bend.  Fun.

To be clear, I am conservative to the point of libertarian, but I don't come on here for this nonsense.  I took a break from BBC for a period of years when things became ridiculous here before, hoping that doesn't become necessary again.  Probably will.

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2020, 10:58:38 AM »
Politically-biased people who know zip about a subject debating the subject, which has nothing to do with Big Bend.  Fun.

To be clear, I am conservative to the point of libertarian, but I don't come on here for this nonsense.  I took a break from BBC for a period of years when things became ridiculous here before, hoping that doesn't become necessary again.  Probably will.
And that would be a damn shame.  I hope it doesn't come to that.

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Offline iCe

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Re: Why was The disussion about Glacier NP locked?
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2020, 12:34:13 PM »
I kind of see Steels point (some I don't agree with and I'll leave it at that)...


The National Park News forum probably isn't the best place for a discussion that has such a high potential for volatility.

 


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