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Grand Canyon Fandango

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Offline presidio

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2018, 06:28:06 PM »
Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

You'll find that New Mexicans don't share your enthusiasm about the situation.
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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2018, 06:29:14 PM »
Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

You'll find that New Mexicans don't share your enthusiasm about the situation.
Yeah, but so?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app

Moderator Note: Ok, boys, don't make me moderate my own topic... :icon_rolleyes:
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 10:33:31 PM by RichardM »

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Offline RichardM

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2018, 05:12:49 PM »
We drove through Cortez and continued on to Mesa Verde National Park. The Visitors Center and toll booth station were already closed for the day when we got there, so we got in free.  :eusa_dance: We drove up to the fire lookout at Park Point to check out the views.



Sunset was pretty anticlimactic, except for some good light on the  San Juans. It was a lot better just before I was able to get the camera out. ;)



It was too late in the day to check any of the rest of the park, so we headed back to Cortez and got a room at a motel and had dinner. The next morning we headed back to the park, this time paying the $15 entrance fee.

Had this not been a spur-of-the moment decision to go to the park, I would have done some research in advance. As it was I was unable to get the park's website to load when using mobile data and didn't get to see the notice that there was no access to any of the cliff dwellings. Once again, the moose should'a told us.





Other than a quick drive through the campground in the park, we gave up sightseeing and headed back to Texas. Drove through Durango and Santa Fe, but Jennifer didn't want to get out of the car at either place for additional shopping, sightseeing, etc. Spent the night in Clovis NM at the Quality Inn. Only thing of interest there was the sign in the lobby saying they no longer rent to locals. Apparently the air force peeps were renting rooms to party in and kept trashing them. :icon_rolleyes:

Up next was a few days with family, in Merkel, Abilene, and Austin before making it back to Friendswood Sunday morning. Total mileage was over 3100, with somewhere between 55 and 60 hours spent in the car.

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Offline RichardM

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2018, 05:38:25 PM »
Here are some random pics taken by Jennifer.

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Jennifer getting to know Rooster (Lab, Catahoula, Husky mix).


...and getting reacquainted with Cheyenne (Lab and Husky or maybe Malamute mix).


Overall, a great road trip!

P.S. The attached photo is from an antique store in Brady. Jennifer wasn't as amused as I was.

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Offline Txlj

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2018, 07:34:56 PM »
Thanks for posting. The wife and I are thinking of making this same trip in October.

sent from flatland


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Offline mbender

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2018, 06:09:08 PM »
There is a similar error (but not for the same reason) along the entire eastern New Mexico border with Texas. Texas was given too much land to the west by about two miles. If you look at the NM/OK border, that line correctly is located and should have been projected south, but clumsy surveyors (not limitations of technology) placed the Texas line too far west.

Cool. We're even bigger and better than I thought.   Good to know.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Big Bend Chat mobile app

 :eusa_clap:  :dance:  :great:  :celebrate:

Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!

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Offline mbender

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2018, 06:11:27 PM »
Thanks for the report and a terrific collection of photos!

Some day.... I will see it for myself... some day...

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Offline presidio

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2018, 07:26:57 PM »
Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!

Wishful thinking at best.

However, there IS a line in TX that should have been pushed EAST a long time ago.

That would be the Central/Mountain time zone line.

Big Bend ought to be in the Mountain Time Zone. If it was the sun would rise at a reasonable time in the morning, and it properly would be included in the mountain west.

I've always been baffled at what purpose is served by the Central Time Zone extending so far west in TX.

It has to be some warped political decision, as there is no apparent economic reason nor benefit for the present layout. Every place north of west TX is in the mountain zone.

El Paso and GUMO are on mountain time. It is further baffling why this tiny slice was put (but properly) in the mountain zone.

It can be changed and in the case of GUMO it was. The zone line initially split the park right down the middle. It was moved east to put the entire park in the mountain zone.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Jonathan Sadow

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2018, 02:48:37 AM »
Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!

Wishful thinking at best.

However, there IS a line in TX that should have been pushed EAST a long time ago.

That would be the Central/Mountain time zone line.

Big Bend ought to be in the Mountain Time Zone. If it was the sun would rise at a reasonable time in the morning, and it properly would be included in the mountain west.

I've always been baffled at what purpose is served by the Central Time Zone extending so far west in TX.

It has to be some warped political decision, as there is no apparent economic reason nor benefit for the present layout. Every place north of west TX is in the mountain zone.

El Paso and GUMO are on mountain time. It is further baffling why this tiny slice was put (but properly) in the mountain zone.

It can be changed and in the case of GUMO it was. The zone line initially split the park right down the middle. It was moved east to put the entire park in the mountain zone.

Technically, GUMO is still in the Central Time Zone;  however, the park unofficially observes Mountain Time, probably because that puts it in the same time zone as Carlsbad Caverns National Park and the administrative office for both in Carlsbad.  This is an endless source of confusion to park visitors, whose cell phones often hit towers running on Central Time and thus think the time is one hour later than what is observed in the park.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2018, 03:59:00 PM »
Technically, GUMO is still in the Central Time Zone;  however, the park unofficially observes Mountain Time, probably because that puts it in the same time zone as Carlsbad Caverns National Park and the administrative office for both in Carlsbad.

Maybe. Who knows? Some years ago I saw a detailed map of where the time zone boundary ran in the vicinity of the park, but cannot now find it. That map implied a legal change to the boundary location, but I also cannot locate any references that such has officially occurred.

However, that map had an interesting layout as the line was immediately east of US 62/180 and turned west (running north of 62/180) in the flats below Guad peak until intersecting the Hudspeth county line, where it turned south. While not marked on the highway, if driving to El Paso you briefly left the MTZ and reentered the CTZ.

Regarding time zones, as I have noted in the past, it makes zero sense for Big Bend to be in the Central time zone. No apparent political or economic interest is served by staying in the CTZ and no detrimental effects would occur if it properly were placed in the MTZ, which is logically where it belongs. Moving the line would eliminate sunrise and sunset being quite obviously out of sync with the latitude (as long as we continue to play the time zone game...see below).

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This is an endless source of confusion to park visitors, whose cell phones often hit towers running on Central Time and thus think the time is one hour later than what is observed in the park.

A genuine first-world problem. Before mobile phones, no one paid much attention to this "problem" and life went on. You either knew where you were and what time it was, or you didn't, and you either were on time for things or not.

If you want to be totally confused, and bang the hell out of your mobile phone swapping times, take a particular drive through NE Arizona.

This route carefully was selected to maximize the number of changes due to a peculiarity of the Hopi/Navajo boundaries. With respect to this situation, the Hopi reservation is completely surrounded by the Navajo rez; however, a tiny piece of Navajo is completely surrounded by Hopi and, while shown on detailed maps, is a factoid oblivious to many.

Arizona and the Hopi do not observe DST
The Navajo and Utah use DST

Roads are AZ 77, AZ 264, US 160 and US 87

Start in Holbrook AZ on I-40 and go north on AZ 77 onto the Navajo reservation, into the Hopi Pueblo, into the Navajo portion surrounded by Hopi,  back onto Hopi, across a short piece of Navajo, back onto a Hopi outlier, into Navajo for the last time, off the rez into Page and cross into Utah northwest of Page on US 87.

Using 10 am (and assuming you do all this within an hour so as to make it simple), here is what you will find as a result of that damned daylight savings time:

Holbrook, 10 am
Navajo rez, 11 am
Hopi rez, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Hopi, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Hopi, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Page, 10 am
Utah, 11 am

A mere nine! (9) time changes in a distance of  235 miles. Does anyone do these changes? Of course not. In fact, some of it doesn't even register on mobile phones, but it all exists.

Generally, it affects no one other than the locals, who are well-versed in what time it is and when openings/closings occur.

This extreme example illustrates how idiotic and unnecessary is DST; it should be legislated out of existence, as Arizona and Hawaii very wisely have done on their own. However, there are politicians (I believe Rubio is one) who want to make DST a permanent year round event. As comedian Chris Rock intoned in his video "How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police" the only phrase that comes to mind is "that's just ignorant."

Actually, there long has been two proposals which would solve a lot of problems, but are unlikely to ever happen.

The first is to put the US on only two time zones, with no DST: Eastern and Western. The line would be where the current CTZ/MTZ line is (that proposal does not change the idiocy of the west TX situation. One variant has the zones separated by one hour; another has a two hour separation. Either would be an improvement.

The other, far more logical solution, is to put the entire planet on Universal Time (UTC), with no time zones. Undoubtedly, those that go to work at 8am and then find themselves going to work at 5pm would be resistant due to an inability to accept change. Actually, UTC runs on a 24 hr clock, so the problem of which o'clock it is is forever eliminated, and you would go to work at 1700 hrs instead of 0800.

UTC (erroneously and frequently called 'military' or 'scientific' time) is just a much simpler system. Folks can get used to anything (unless they are Luddites...as we are with the metric system in the US). Aviation, communications, international interests, NIST clocks and a myriad (or perhaps a plethora) of others run on UTC even if you don't see it. UTC makes the most sense and eliminates the issue of what time it is anywhere. Yeah, the sun might rise at 1500 hrs in Big Bend, but once you stop having to change clocks due to latitude or DST, everything becomes so much simpler. Even the haters would learn to like in short order.

Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day.


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<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline badknees

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2018, 04:38:27 PM »
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Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day

To emphasize your point on UTC, the BBC forum and most modern networks run on UTC. The displayed time is an setup option. The underlying is UTC.

Getting everyone to live their daily lives communicating UTC might be a stretch, but a 24 hour clock is a no-brainer.
Not all those who wander are lost.
J.R.R. Tolkien

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http://mirrormagic.com

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Offline presidio

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Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2018, 06:05:35 PM »
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Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day

To emphasize your point on UTC, the BBC forum and most modern networks run on UTC. The displayed time is an setup option. The underlying is UTC.

Getting everyone to live their daily lives communicating UTC might be a stretch, but a 24 hour clock is a no-brainer.

Most of Europe runs on the 24 hr clock. So should we, but attempting a wholesale change likely would fail as pathetically as the metric push. But, through international trade and manufacturing, SI increasingly is pushing the fractional/English/SAE/inch (no one really knows what to call it)  scheme into the dustbin of history. Perhaps the same thing will happen with time as the digital world continues to expand.

Every clock I have that can be set to 24 hr display, is. My cheap Timex digital watch is set to local time and the alternate view is UTC.

I know a few highly educated folks who simply cannot seem to convert PM times to the 24 hour clock (or vice versa) without angst and stress, and sometimes a refusal to even try. The fact that you merely add or subtract 12 hrs is a skill lost on them. It drives them to distraction when I say or write 24 hr times. They want me to do the conversion for them; I tell them to do the math.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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