Big Bend Chat

Random Bits from the Outside World => Non-BIBE Trip Reports => Topic started by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 01:07:08 PM

Title: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 01:07:08 PM
In case some of you noticed my absence from the Chat and maybe missed me: i am getting ready for my 1st camping/hiking trip to Wichita Mts. Oklahoma. Appreciate feed-back from those, who have been there!! Thanks, Frau
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 02:26:05 PM
we missed you; thought you were already in the Wichita's

i  had to postpone. had a terrible cold, will leave next week!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: bbbrain on January 12, 2011, 04:29:12 PM
awesome place.  we went three times last year.  buffalo and longhorns roam free and walk through your campsite.  700 elk on the property; also prairie dogs.  stop at the visitors center and buy the big topo map.  i can recommend the holy city, elk mountain, the narrows, and charon gardens wilderness for starters.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 05:00:49 PM
awesome place.  we went three times last year.  buffalo and longhorns roam free and walk through your campsite.  700 elk on the property; also prairie dogs.  stop at the visitors center and buy the big topo map.  i can recommend the holy city, elk mountain, the narrows, and charon gardens wilderness for starters.
this makes my heart bounce: THAT"S what i want to experience! Any primitive campsites besides the official one, you know of?? I guess, Charon Gardens is the official one?? Thanks, bbbrain!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: bbbrain on January 12, 2011, 05:06:33 PM
no, the only primitive camping that i know of is in the charon'sgarden area.  i'll try to post some pics.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 05:13:43 PM
no, the only primitive camping that i know of is in the charon'sgarden area.  i'll try to post some pics.

thanks, looking forward to them!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 05:14:52 PM
no, the only primitive camping that i know of is in the charon'sgarden area.  i'll try to post some pics.

thanks, looking forward to them!!


I am primarily a hiker, what are the trails like?
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: bbbrain on January 12, 2011, 05:25:18 PM
the trails are no problem for a hiker; they range from flat in the dog run hollow trail system to steeper in the narrows and elk mountain areas.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 05:41:50 PM
the trails are no problem for a hiker; they range from flat in the dog run hollow trail system to steeper in the narrows and elk mountain areas.
you must live close, since you have been there 3times this year? I am coming from Baton Rouge,LA
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: dkerr24 on January 12, 2011, 06:00:23 PM
I live about 75 miles from the refuge, and mainly use it as a training ground for hikes in the west.  The trails range from very flat and easy to some minor scrambling on Elk Mountain. 

You have to be on the lookout for buffalo, as they tend to lay down in the middle of the trail.  I rounded a bend on the Dog Hollow Run trail and got within about 20 feet of a good sized bull before I even saw him.

Luckily, he wasn't too spooked and I simply gave him about a 50 yard berth as I walked around.

Only about half of the refuge is open to the general public.  The entire northern half of the area is fenced off, and used for open range for buffalo and elk.

On the negative side, the refuge borders on Ft Sill, which is the artillery training grounds for the US Army.  If you hear what sounds like thunder on a clear day, it is the firing of the 155mm howitzers.

Darin
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: bbbrain on January 12, 2011, 06:01:58 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58229769@N04/sets/72157625810711132/
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: JRD on January 12, 2011, 06:02:00 PM
Hard to beat waking up to trumpeting elk or running into a lone buffalo bull as you crest Elk Mountain.  Great place because of the wildlife.

It is first and foremost a wildlife preserve, so if you are in Charon Gardens the trails are not really marked.   Get a good map and or GPS.

The rock rooms / boulder field are a can't miss.  You can scramble over the top or I'm told you can go all the way underneath.  If you like bats check out the rock rooms at night!

Pics from Oct -

Buffalo:
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nrmhlkQb0ac/TS45eVnswXI/AAAAAAAAAic/5T5RPOZsoaM/s400/Wichita%20025.JPG)

Elk:
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nrmhlkQb0ac/TS45gpTfwGI/AAAAAAAAAic/0pChcj4bv9U/s400/Wichita%20052.JPG)

The Apple & Pear:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nrmhlkQb0ac/TS45fo8ts8I/AAAAAAAAAic/ZveSIcZIsgQ/s400/Wichita%20028.JPG)
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Picacho on January 12, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
The best place for backcountry camping is on the plateau between Sunset Peak and Mt. Mitchell. This is a pic from the summit of Sunset Peak looking over to Mt. Mitchell. The best camping is on the treeless areas on the left side of the photo. It will require you taking the trail towards Crab Eyes and then making a turn to the right (west) and bushwhacking over there staying high on the plateau. There will be some ups and downs and some route finding. You will start at the north entrance of Charon's Garden. I do not believe the trail to Crab Eyes is on the topo, so there will be some route finding just to find the trail. There are some nice flat areas to camp.

(http://c0278592.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/original/61330.jpg)

Here is the route on the topo from where you turn off from the Crab Eyes trail (labeled bushwhack begins on the map) to the best spot to camp (approximately at the L in National. Sometimes the camping area is trampled by buffalo and has some mud pies laying around, but normally you can find a nice place.

(http://c0278592.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/original/103977.jpg)

If you like scrambling, Mt. Mitchell's twin summits is a fun climb. It will require good route finding skills to keep the climbing out of the technical range. Be sure to do both summits. The are only about 20 feet apart but each one has a different challenge. The rocky summit(s) on the far left of the photo is the true summit. You can't see both rocks from this pic because they are too close. I thought at first Mt. Mitchell was Twin Rocks Mountain but it's not. Twin Rocks has only 1 rock. :-) Maybe they got them mixed up in the past.

Mt. Mitchell on SummitPost.
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-mitchell-massif/152837

The view from the summit of Sunset (there are 4 summits, I'm referring to the southern most one and the one the above photo was taken from) is a worthy one too and easier than Mt. Mitchell if you do it from the camping plateau.

The best trail in the park is through Charon's Garden from south to north. It's a great trail but it's only 2 miles long one way. Elk Mountain reflecting off of Post Oak Lake is a spectacular scene. Post Oak falls is a neat little place too but will be hard to find.

Another trail in the park that is a good one is The Narrows. This is primarily used as a climbers trail but is a nice trail even if you are not climbing. It is a bit rugged in places and can have some water along the trail if there has been recent rain.

A drive to the top of Mt. Scott is a must and a burger in Meers is another must. Don't judge the burger too harshly, it's the atmosphere that makes it special. Also if you get time, eat dinner at the restaurant in Medicine Park that overlooks the creek. Nice atmosphere there and fairly decent food. If you can find downtown Medicine Park, you'll find the restaurant. Downtown is just off the main highway before you get to the park entrance and Mt. Scott. You will cross an old wooden and metal bridge and then take a right to get to the restaurant.

O and you probably already know this, but backcountry camping requires a permit. Get one far in advance if you can.  Also, do not bring alcohol into the park, it's illegal to even possess it. 
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 09:14:04 PM
 Chat friends,thanks to all of you, for the detailed info, the pics and trail info! I get the impression, that this too is one of these"magical" places,which "soothes our soul" and gives us new perspective on our lives!
@dkerr24 should i be discouraged by the Artillery noise? Is it not disturbing to the roaming wild animals??
Cannot understand why they would put a Wildlife Refuge next to Army training grounds??
Do you think, i can get enough hiking in there? I like to do about 8 mi./day and i see all the trails are rather short, but maybe a good training ground for future BIBE excursions, as you said!
bbbrain wonderful pics, can see, why you love this place!
Picacho very helpful, detailed info, thanks!
JRD thanks for your great pics and info!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: dkerr24 on January 12, 2011, 10:48:13 PM
I think the animals are used to the artillery noise, and it's not something that happens everyday.  Would be nice if there was a schedule of artillery practice so you'd know what days to get peace and quiet.

I've been there on days when there was no artillery practice and no jet trainers flying overhead... it is definitely a slice of heaven on those days.

Unlike BIBE, you're not all that far from civilization when you're at the refuge.  The city of Lawton is less than 20 miles away.  If you find you forgot something, it's not far to drive to resupply.

If you do camp overnight, do not be surprised to find buffalo wandering through your campsite at morning.  That has happened to me several times.  Buffalo are really not aggressive unless you provoke them.  Just remain quiet and make slow movements, and they'll amble off into the woods.  The buffalo there are used to seeing humans all the time, and I'd say they are no more aggressive than cattle.  If anything, they are just curious. 
If it is mating season, then all bets are off!


Darin
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 12, 2011, 11:42:01 PM
I think the animals are used to the artillery noise, and it's not something that happens everyday.  Would be nice if there was a schedule of artillery practice so you'd know what days to get peace and quiet.

I've been there on days when there was no artillery practice and no jet trainers flying overhead... it is definitely a slice of heaven on those days.

Unlike BIBE, you're not all that far from civilization when you're at the refuge.  The city of Lawton is less than 20 miles away.  If you find you forgot something, it's not far to drive to resupply.

If you do camp overnight, do not be surprised to find buffalo wandering through your campsite at morning.  That has happened to me several times.  Buffalo are really not aggressive unless you provoke them.  Just remain quiet and make slow movements, and they'll amble off into the woods.  The buffalo there are used to seeing humans all the time, and I'd say they are no more aggressive than cattle.  If anything, they are just curious. 
If it is mating season, then all bets are off!


Darin
Maybe I call the rangers to find out, what days are safe from Artillery noise, if they know, that is!
Yes, i will camp, unless the Buffalo chase me away! Let's hope, it's not mating season when i go next week or the following week! Thanks, again, Amigo, i am looking forward to this new adventure!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Picacho on January 13, 2011, 12:32:26 AM
I rarely hear artillery noise. 

If you like 8 miles a day of hiking, your outa luck in the Wichitas.  It's mostly a climbing area. 

You could try the Ouachita Trail on the other side of the state.   It's not rocky like the Wichitas, it's heavily wooded but will give you some good altitude changes. 

http://www.ouachitamaps.com/OT-03%20259-QW.html
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 02:42:41 AM
I rarely hear artillery noise. 

If you like 8 miles a day of hiking, your outa luck in the Wichitas.  It's mostly a climbing area. 

You could try the Ouachita Trail on the other side of the state.   It's not rocky like the Wichitas, it's heavily wooded but will give you some good altitude changes. 

http://www.ouachitamaps.com/OT-03%20259-QW.html
Thanks, Picacho,for this suggestion, but i think, i will stay with Wich. Mts for the time being, since i have never been and am interested in the Wildlife too. I have hiked Queen Wilhelmina area, very beautiful too, good suggestion!
Next time i will try some of the others you suggest! I guess, i will survive not being able to hike 8 mi/day! If i piece all of the different trails together i think, it will be good enough! I am used to alpine hiking at 14 000ft elev.which i do sometimes 3 weeks at a time! I REALLY enjoyed BIBE, as we all do, because it's so different and has such an allure......
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: JRD on January 13, 2011, 07:02:55 AM
Fort Sill has been there since 1869, the refuge was established in 1901 (Bully for TR!) - so they put the refuge next to the base, not the other way around.

In the times I've been there I've heard training activity during the week in the day-time, but not on the weekend or at night.  That having been said there are a lot more people in the refuge on the weekend, so pick your minor drawback.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 08:46:12 AM
Fort Sill has been there since 1869, the refuge was established in 1901 (Bully for TR!) - so they put the refuge next to the base, not the other way around.

In the times I've been there I've heard training activity during the week in the day-time, but not on the weekend or at night.  That having been said there are a lot more people in the refuge on the weekend, so pick your minor drawback.
Thanks, JRD, of course i am planning to be there during the week and, i don't think in the next couple of weeks a lot of people will be crowding the Refuge! or will they??
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: JRD on January 13, 2011, 09:02:59 AM
We were there during the week for spring break in March a couple of years ago and the park was almost empty.  This time of year I would expect the same.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 09:19:07 AM
We were there during the week for spring break in March a couple of years ago and the park was almost empty.  This time of year I would expect the same.
Well, i am flexible, i definitely want to avoid the crowds! If i camp at Charon's Garden, do I hike in or what?
They issue permits only for 2 nights, 3days.....! I guess, on the way back i drive through the Ouatchita Mts and hike at Queen Wilhelmina!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: JRD on January 13, 2011, 09:59:20 AM
This is not a great park for hiking in the classical sense; you aren't going to hike 8 miles, set up camp, get up in the morning, and do it again.

Pack-in, set up camp and spend your time exploring, climbing, and enjoying the wildlife.

Seeing buffalo free on the range alone makes the trip worth it.  It is a lot like approaching the Statue of Liberty by boat: beautiful to look at and a profoundly American experience.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 10:05:10 AM
This is not a great park for hiking in the classical sense; you aren't going to hike 8 miles, set up camp, get up in the morning, and do it again.

Pack-in, set up camp and spend your time exploring, climbing, and enjoying the wildlife.

Seeing buffalo free on the range alone makes the trip worth it.  It is a lot like approaching the Statue of Liberty by boat: beautiful to look at and a profoundly American experience.
that's what i plan to do!! Like your Analogy! When i talk about "hiking" i do mean exploring, meandering,lingering!
Looking forward to the experience and yet another glimpse of "America", the intriguing, forever alluring!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 10:39:55 AM
This is not a great park for hiking in the classical sense; you aren't going to hike 8 miles, set up camp, get up in the morning, and do it again.

Pack-in, set up camp and spend your time exploring, climbing, and enjoying the wildlife.

Seeing buffalo free on the range alone makes the trip worth it.  It is a lot like approaching the Statue of Liberty by boat: beautiful to look at and a profoundly American experience.
that's what i plan to do!! Like your Analogy! When i talk about "hiking" i do mean exploring, meandering,lingering!
Looking forward to the experience and yet another glimpse of "America", the intriguing, forever alluring!

 Below: response from the Ranger to my inquery!
Renate,

You should not have a problems getting a camp site in February, we do not take reservations for individual sites, they are all first come first serve.  The weather is February is typically cooler but not freezing.  I don't believe it will be crowded, the only time we meet full capacity in the camp ground is Spring and Fall Break.

Enjoy your visit to the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge and if you have any further questions feel free to contact me.

Thanks
Quinton


Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Picacho on January 13, 2011, 11:41:16 AM
The only non-primitive camping area in the Wichitas is at Doris Campground.  For the Charons Garden Wilderness, you must hike in to the backcountry.  There is no camping at either trailhead.  You can camp for free by Lake Lawtonka as well which is outside the park. 

50 miles to the west is Quartz Mountain State Park.  It is home to probably the most famous climbing area in the midwest.  There are some hiking trails there too.  Worth checking out if you have the time. 

If you are also in the mood just to check other areas out in southern Oklahoma, you can drop by Turner Falls Park and Chickasaw National Recreation Area just off of I-35.  Not a lot of trails at either place but pretty cool places to check out. 

I am familiar with alpine hiking myself having climbed all 54 14ers in Colorado.   :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 01:47:11 PM
The only non-primitive camping area in the Wichitas is at Doris Campground.  For the Charons Garden Wilderness, you must hike in to the backcountry.  There is no camping at either trailhead.  You can camp for free by Lake Lawtonka as well which is outside the park. 

50 miles to the west is Quartz Mountain State Park.  It is home to probably the most famous climbing area in the midwest.  There are some hiking trails there too.  Worth checking out if you have the time. 

If you are also in the mood just to check other areas out in southern Oklahoma, you can drop by Turner Falls Park and Chickasaw National Recreation Area just off of I-35.  Not a lot of trails at either place but pretty cool places to check out. 

I am familiar with alpine hiking myself having climbed all 54 14ers in Colorado.   :icon_cool:
that's great info! Wonderful! I have lots of time.......will make a point to follow all of your recommendations! That's what I was looking for!! Thumbs up to your 54 14ers!! Haven't done Colorado yet, "only" Austria,Bavaria, North Cascades,WA!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 02:29:07 PM
Northern New Mexico before Colorado; talk to me about it
ok, tell me about it!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 04:36:03 PM
Northern New Mexico before Colorado; talk to me about it
ok, tell me about it!!

I will later, but it's about Taos, NM, and the nearby Pecos Wilderness, the Latir Peak Massiff, Gold Hill, and Wheeler Peak (NM's highest); (my favorite places in the USA)(BIBE is "home")
QS
i want to hear it all !!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Picacho on January 13, 2011, 05:22:25 PM
Northern New Mexico before Colorado; talk to me about it

Whadyaneed to know?  Done a lot of stuff there too.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: bbbrain on January 13, 2011, 08:37:02 PM
fraulein - here are a few more pics.  but the best thing to do is go to flickr or you tube and do a search for "wichita mountains."  also try summitpost.org/wichitamountains.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58229769@N04/sets/72157625818512370/
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 09:52:34 PM
fraulein - here are a few more pics.  but the best thing to do is go to flickr or you tube and do a search for "wichita mountains."  also try summitpost.org/wichitamountains.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58229769@N04/sets/72157625818512370/
Danke, junger Mann! really beautiful, can't wait to get out there!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 09:55:25 PM
fraulein - here are a few more pics.  but the best thing to do is go to flickr or you tube and do a search for "wichita mountains."  also try summitpost.org/wichitamountains.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58229769@N04/sets/72157625818512370/
summitpost pics are the best!!

















Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 13, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
The Wichita Range was eventually brought under the jurisdiction of the Fort Sill Agency, located just south of the mountains. Fort Sill was the reservation to which the Comanche, Kiowa and some of the Apache were relocated. The Kiowa chief, Lone Wolf, the Comanche Quanah Parker, and even Geronimo, were residents of the Fort Sill Reservation.

Mining took place in the Wichitas, although it petered out at the beginning of the 20th century. The Doris campground began its life as a mining camp. In 1901 the refuge was split off of Fort Sill Agency and established as the Wichita Forest Reserve. In 1905 President Theodore Roosevelt altered its status to a Game Preserve when he visited the Wichitas. It was then added to the fledgling National Wildlife Refuge system, which had been established in 1903. Bison were introduced in 1907 and elk were transferred from the Elk Refuge in Jackson, Wyoming shortly thereafter.

The 8,750-acre Wichita Mountains Wilderness was established in 1970. A subset of the Wichita Mountains Wilderness, the Charonís Garden Wilderness contains 5,700 acres. The remainder of the wilderness is found in the North Mountain Unit, which is found in a part of the refuge that does not have public access.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 08:37:24 AM
very nice, Frau; I knew noting of the Wichita's
QS
you see, you can learn from us too, not just the other way around!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: dkerr24 on January 14, 2011, 08:37:54 AM
I wish I could gain access to the North unit of the park.  That entire half is off limits to the general public. 

They periodically move herds of buffalo from the south side to the north, and I was lucky enough to be driving down the main access highway during this 'buffalo drive'.  It was pretty cool seeing dozens of head of buffalo stampeding through the gate leading to the north half of the park.

Darin
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 08:49:24 AM
I wish I could gain access to the North unit of the park.  That entire half is off limits to the general public. 

They periodically move herds of buffalo from the south side to the north, and I was lucky enough to be driving down the main access highway during this 'buffalo drive'.  It was pretty cool seeing dozens of head of buffalo stampeding through the gate leading to the north half of the park.

Darin
yeah, i guess, they have their reasons for limiting access! All in all this seems an amazing place and i can't wait to get out there and  it's much closer to BR,LA than BIBE for me! So, it might become my "playground" for the times i cannot make it to BIBE!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Picacho on January 14, 2011, 01:40:09 PM
I wish I could gain access to the North unit of the park.  That entire half is off limits to the general public. 

They periodically move herds of buffalo from the south side to the north, and I was lucky enough to be driving down the main access highway during this 'buffalo drive'.  It was pretty cool seeing dozens of head of buffalo stampeding through the gate leading to the north half of the park.

Darin

They do have periodic tours into the northern half of the wilderness.  You have to sign-up.  They have a set schedule.  You can't roam around freely as the tour is guided, but some access is better than none. 
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 03:24:55 PM
I wish I could gain access to the North unit of the park.  That entire half is off limits to the general public. 

They periodically move herds of buffalo from the south side to the north, and I was lucky enough to be driving down the main access highway during this 'buffalo drive'.  It was pretty cool seeing dozens of head of buffalo stampeding through the gate leading to the north half of the park.

Darin

They do have periodic tours into the northern half of the wilderness.  You have to sign-up.  They have a set schedule.  You can't roam around freely as the tour is guided, but some access is better than none. 
great to know! I will look into it, before i go! Decided i want to be there when the Spring Flowers start emerging and blooming, but BEFORE the Spring crowds arrive! When would that be,approx.??
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 03:33:02 PM
very nice, Frau; I knew noting of the Wichita's
QS
you see, you can learn from us too, not just the other way around!

Frau, my entire relationship with BBC has been a "learning curve; my experience is in places, routes, history, adventure. From this wonderful Forum I have learned so much about innovative gear, technology, new backpacking options, et.al. People like me who have been doing it for so long tend to get "stuck in our ways". Because of the BBC Forum my pack weight has decreased from 55-60 lbs to 40-45 lbs; I have new sleeping systems; improvements all around.
Re photography I have learned  to post from "photobucket"; editing (to the extreme), conversion of "ancient" slides to DVD, then  to posting on the Forum.
I have worn out most of my old hiking companions but am finding an abundance of "like minded" amigos on the Forum.
With "constructive criticism" around in abundance, I will never go wrong!
Yes, I can learn from all of you, while sharing my lifetime of experiences. Thanks for putting up with my occasional resistance to change!
QS
resistance to change?? You must be kidding! From what i can absorb through the chat, you are a very flexible, intuitive individual! All that aside: like you , I value the forum for all the info, links,pics, wonderful individuals,who love the outdoors and respect it , as we "oldtimers" do! My experiences have mainly been in the Mts of Bavaria and Austria,American NE and American NW, so the SW, Texas SW is a new discovery for me and i am totally engrossed in it, wishing, i  had been one of the European Pioneers of the 19th Century venturing out West to the  Austin Colonies in TX, granted by the Mexican Government!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Burn Ban on January 14, 2011, 04:08:21 PM
wishing, i  had been one of the European Pioneers of the 19th Century venturing out West to the  Austin Colonies in TX, granted by the Mexican Government!!

good lord , NO. i'm grateful my ancestors came here in those days, but having read much about texas in those days; i'm happy to not have any part of that.
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
wishing, i  had been one of the European Pioneers of the 19th Century venturing out West to the  Austin Colonies in TX, granted by the Mexican Government!!

good lord , NO. i'm grateful my ancestors came here in those days, but having read much about texas in those days; i'm happy to not have any part of that.

Burn Ban , i understand your horror, but don't you agree that your ancestors must have been INCREDIBLY tough people to survive and stay and continue the line? When did they immigrate? How did they get there?
I am an Immigrant of recent years, and i must say, it was very tough for me too, though nothing compared to what those people went through!! We have become "weaklings" due to all the comfort and Technology we are surrounded by! Maybe therefore the attraction to BIBE (for some of us) and similar experiences, but we always can crawl back into our cars and make it within hours back to "civilization"!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: chisos_muse on January 14, 2011, 06:11:27 PM
wishing, i  had been one of the European Pioneers of the 19th Century venturing out West to the  Austin Colonies in TX, granted by the Mexican Government!!

good lord , NO. i'm grateful my ancestors came here in those days, but having read much about texas in those days; i'm happy to not have any part of that.

Burn Ban , i understand your horror, but don't you agree that your ancestors must have been INCREDIBLY tough people to survive and stay and continue the line? When did they immigrate? How did they get there?
I am an Immigrant of recent years, and i must say, it was very tough for me too, though nothing compared to what those people went through!! We have become "weaklings" due to all the comfort and Technology we are surrounded by! Maybe therefore the attraction to BIBE (for some of us) and similar experiences, but we always can crawl back into our cars and make it within hours back to "civilization"!!

Ok Richard, get ready to split this one off...

We're not weaklings....we're just as tough and stronger than ever! Problem is, some people CHOOSE (there's the ticket) to be LAZY. Things are just a bit different nowadays but I know people who still work very hard, and care about their bodies and surroundings. I love technology! It think it's great what we have accomplished in the past few hundred years. The settlers didn't live very long and often died from infections and childbirth.

I admire our ancestors and sympathize with what they had to go through, but I would never want to live like that. I don't think they would want us to either after working so hard to try and make this place better for their children and so on....

So many people STILL suffer today due to war, poverty & famine...we don't need to regress but should always move forward and strive to be better humans together and individually.  :icon_biggrin:

Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: jeffblaylock on January 14, 2011, 06:17:13 PM
Awful lot of discussion about a trip report for which the trip hasn't occurred yet. :eusa_whistle:

In case some of you noticed my absence from the Chat and maybe missed me: i am getting ready for my 1st camping/hiking trip to Wichita Mts. Oklahoma. Appreciate feed-back from those, who have been there!! Thanks, Frau

Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 08:57:51 PM
wishing, i  had been one of the European Pioneers of the 19th Century venturing out West to the  Austin Colonies in TX, granted by the Mexican Government!!

good lord , NO. i'm grateful my ancestors came here in those days, but having read much about texas in those days; i'm happy to not have any part of that.

Burn Ban , i understand your horror, but don't you agree that your ancestors must have been INCREDIBLY tough people to survive and stay and continue the line? When did they immigrate? How did they get there?
I am an Immigrant of recent years, and i must say, it was very tough for me too, though nothing compared to what those people went through!! We have become "weaklings" due to all the comfort and Technology we are surrounded by! Maybe therefore the attraction to BIBE (for some of us) and similar experiences, but we always can crawl back into our cars and make it within hours back to "civilization"!!

Ok Richard, get ready to split this one off...

We're not weaklings....we're just as tough and stronger than ever! Problem is, some people CHOOSE (there's the ticket) to be LAZY. Things are just a bit different nowadays but I know people who still work very hard, and care about their bodies and surroundings. I love technology! It think it's great what we have accomplished in the past few hundred years. The settlers didn't live very long and often died from infections and childbirth.

I admire our ancestors and sympathize with what they had to go through, but I would never want to live like that. I don't think they would want us to either after working so hard to try and make this place better for their children and so on....

So many people STILL suffer today due to war, poverty & famine...we don't need to regress but should always move forward and strive to be better humans together and individually.  :icon_biggrin:


good point Muse, specially agree with the last sentence!! Don't forget, I am a "greenhorn" in this country, but willing to learn and to adapt!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 08:58:29 PM
and there is always the "lowest"-"highest" denominator! good stuff, everybody!
QS
i agree, QS!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 14, 2011, 09:01:15 PM
i
Awful lot of discussion about a trip report for which the trip hasn't occurred yet. :eusa_whistle:

In case some of you noticed my absence from the Chat and maybe missed me: i am getting ready for my 1st camping/hiking trip to Wichita Mts. Oklahoma. Appreciate feed-back from those, who have been there!! Thanks, Frau


forgive me,Jeff, isn't this all part of LEARNING??
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 16, 2011, 07:35:02 AM
nice photo, but where is Marlene?
Do you miss her? She had to take a break from all the exciting Chat activity and asked me to fill in! Sorry, if i can't live up to her "Vamp" image!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: bbbrain on January 24, 2011, 04:43:09 PM
So, Frau, did you make that trip to the Wichitas or not?
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: dkerr24 on January 24, 2011, 08:43:42 PM
I wish I could gain access to the North unit of the park.  That entire half is off limits to the general public. 

They periodically move herds of buffalo from the south side to the north, and I was lucky enough to be driving down the main access highway during this 'buffalo drive'.  It was pretty cool seeing dozens of head of buffalo stampeding through the gate leading to the north half of the park.

Darin

They do have periodic tours into the northern half of the wilderness.  You have to sign-up.  They have a set schedule.  You can't roam around freely as the tour is guided, but some access is better than none. 
great to know! I will look into it, before i go! Decided i want to be there when the Spring Flowers start emerging and blooming, but BEFORE the Spring crowds arrive! When would that be,approx.??

Frau - We're in a drought here in Okla, so unless we get some rain soon, there won't be any flowers in the Wichitas.

There really aren't big crowds in the Wichitas, unless you count the day hikers on weekends.  I've gone there mid week and had the place to myself.

Darin
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 24, 2011, 09:10:15 PM
it's o.k. I like them both!
So, Frau, did you make that trip to the Wichitas or not?
So, Frau, did you make that trip to the Wichitas or not?
I wanted to wait for the Spring Flowers, but Darin is telling me, that there won't be any, due to the drought!
Anyway,some other stuff came up, so I won't be going till beginning of March!! Just as well, you'll hear from me once i have been there!!
Title: Re: Wichita Mts Oklahoma
Post by: Frau on January 31, 2011, 05:03:10 PM
it's o.k. I like them both!
So, Frau, did you make that trip to the Wichitas or not?


D
So, Frau, did you make that trip to the Wichitas or not?
I wanted to wait for the Spring Flowers, but Darin is telling me, that there won't be any, due to the drought!
Anyway,some other stuff came up, so I won't be going till beginning of March!! Just as well, you'll hear from me once i have been there!!
have settled on a date: departing March 4th......on the way back a few days in Queen Wilhelmina,AR!