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Over-estimating your experience or under-estimating the terrain in a place like Big Bend can result in serious injury or death. Use the information and advice found here wisely. Climb/Hike/Camp/Drive at your own risk.

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Offline TheWildWestGuy

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Another Discussion...
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 07:20:10 AM »
All of the coverage for this Mt Hood rescue makes me sick to my stomach.  These guys are not "heros" for doing something stupid and overconfident nor are they "family" with the media or officials.  Anyone who goes up on Mt Hood (or any other large Stratavolcano in the NW) during December is taking a BIG risk (read: Stupid Idiot).  I doubt they will find the 2 remaining bodies until next summer (if ever).  If these guys were such climbing wizards why didn't any of them have a emergency locator device or even enough sense to keep your cell phone in a ziplock bag?   They must have spent all their time at REI or LL Bean admiring themselves in the mirrors and now its on TV 24/7 and we are paying millions of dollars for a media circus performance to recover bodies of guys who thought they were too good to get into trouble and choose to take big risks with their lives and lost.   It's no longer a "rescue" operation and the chances of them losing a rescuer far outweigh the "benefit" of recovering the bodies before thaw.  Luckily for us BBNP is too isolated, too little known, and not dramatic enough to warrant a media circus about anything.  You can see for yourself that the constant TV coverage is corrupting the response effort into a huge grandstanding event as different officials all try to make themselves appear more compassionate, caring, and determined to "rescue" the 2 remaining bodies.   I think I will go vomit now... TWWG

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Offline 01ACRViper

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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 08:55:26 AM »
it's sad what the media chooses to follow every once in a while, and now they're onto missing hikers. people go missing in hte mountins all the time, why do i have to hear about this one 24/7? winter ascents of Hood are not that rare, but other groups seem to be a bit more capable of a hike of that extreme difficulty. at least people will get to see that climbing is actually dangerous, and maybe this'll save a few lives.

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Offline Casa Grande

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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2006, 09:02:48 AM »
Quote from: "TheWildWestGuy"
All of the coverage for this Mt Hood rescue makes me sick to my stomach.  These guys are not "heros" for doing something stupid and overconfident nor are they "family" with the media or officials.  Anyone who goes up on Mt Hood (or any other large Stratavolcano in the NW) during December is taking a BIG risk (read: Stupid Idiot).  I doubt they will find the 2 remaining bodies until next summer (if ever).  If these guys were such climbing wizards why didn't any of them have a emergency locator device or even enough sense to keep your cell phone in a ziplock bag?   They must have spent all their time at REI or LL Bean admiring themselves in the mirrors and now its on TV 24/7 and we are paying millions of dollars for a media circus performance to recover bodies of guys who thought they were too good to get into trouble and choose to take big risks with their lives and lost.   It's no longer a "rescue" operation and the chances of them losing a rescuer far outweigh the "benefit" of recovering the bodies before thaw.  Luckily for us BBNP is too isolated, too little known, and not dramatic enough to warrant a media circus about anything.  You can see for yourself that the constant TV coverage is corrupting the response effort into a huge grandstanding event as different officials all try to make themselves appear more compassionate, caring, and determined to "rescue" the 2 remaining bodies.   I think I will go vomit now... TWWG


I agree...I just had this discussion with some of my colleagues this morning. I was in the minority.....

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Offline Bobcat

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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2006, 10:53:09 AM »
From the AP:

Mount Hood search cost hard to determine

HOOD RIVER, Ore. "A lot of money" has been spent on the search for three missing climbers on Mount Hood, Oregon. But the state search and rescue coordinator for Oregon says there is no bill that tells you exactly how much.
The Hood River County Sheriff's Office estimates it spent roughly five-thousand dollars a day for the first three days and about 65-hundred dollars a day after that.

Much of the work is being done by volunteers and the military, which considers such missions as training. But it does cost 28-hundred-dollars an hour to operate Black Hawk helicopters. At least two Black Hawks have been repeatedly used in the search.

Oregon law does not require victims to pay for rescue efforts unless they were negligent and failed to take basic steps to keep themselves safe. And in those cases, costs are limited to 500 dollars per person.
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Offline TheWildWestGuy

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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2006, 07:22:51 PM »
The media is making a big "special report" series about this and it would be a much different story if these guys were not white males from well heeled backgrounds with nice bio photos.  It makes me want to vomit (again) that these "very experienced" guys decided to summit a volcanic peak in December in the Pacific Northwest (where "white-out's" are not only frequent but expected), and didn't plan to fail.  No backup plan, no Plan B, no redundant safety measures, no Personal Locator Beacons, etc..  They were asking for it and they got it.  This isn't courage it's stupidity, not because they tried to summit the peak but because they were overconfident and unprepared to fail.  At least I am not the only one that feels this way about it... TWWG

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SHANEA

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Just Wait...
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2006, 07:31:49 PM »
Quote from: "TheWildWestGuy"
The media is making a big "special report" series


Just Wait - Sony has announced they have purchased the movie rights to this.  They are already casting with Leonardo DeCaprio, Matt Damon, and Justin Timberlake.   Mel Gibson to be the lead search and rescue dude.  Tom Hanks to be the brother of the missing hiker.  Tom Cruise to be a helicopter pilot.

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Offline presidio

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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2006, 11:28:48 PM »
Quote from: "01ACRViper"
why do i have to hear about this one 24/7?


Because it is 24/7 news and dead air is the kiss of death to a station. The story is accessible, and riveting to people who's most strenuous activity is changing the TV channel.

Cable new is usually a total annoyance once you get past the first cycle and know what the headlines are. Incessant yammering about crap that wouldn't ever get printed in a newspaper because you can't have dead air.

If nothing else was available, these news professionals would make a story out of absolutely nothing....

Bob, tell us exactly how you wound this ball of string. Well Gene, I started at the center and it just got bigger as I went along. Fascinating, Bob, how dangerous was the winding? Gene, you really have to be careful or you could end up tangled in the ball. Wow! Who would ever have guessed it takes special skills and years of experience to do this safely. Bob, has anyone ever been lost making a string ball? Not to my knowledge, Gene, but one day I let Larry wind the ball while I ran to the convenience store for a package of bandaids...those string blisters really hurt when keeping the ball tight. When I got back Larry was gone and I haven't heard from him since. That bothers me because I want to ask him about the funny smell that emanated from the ball for a few days after he left.

Compelling information Bob. OK viewers, this concludes our exclusive coverage on string winding. Channel 7, always first on the scene with in depth reporting and commentary. It is your #1 preferred source for news and information. Don't go away, after the short commercial we will be back with breaking news on how to determine if dog poop is too old to pick up.
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<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2006, 11:30:01 PM »
Quote from: "Bobcat"
From the AP:

"A lot of money" has been spent on the search


That is probably more than a 'bunch of money' you think?
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<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline presidio

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Re: Just Wait...
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2006, 11:31:51 PM »
Quote from: "SHANEA"
Mel Gibson to be the lead search and rescue dude.


Mel just isn't right for the role. You need Sylvester Stallone. YO!
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline bdann

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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2006, 07:46:38 AM »
On the Everest show last night on Discovery - they encountered the stricken climber.  They made a point to stress that the expedition leader felt rescue was impossible.  The guy was so high up, he estimated if it were possible at all, it would've taken 20 sherpas to get him down and chances are some of them would've been killed in the process.  

Some of the climbers did stop to help the man though.  One in particular gave the man oxygen, but was unable to revive him.  The head sherpa spent 25 minutes trying to revive him as well.  

Anyone that hasn't seen it should watch the show.  They are going to show every episode on Sunday.  These climbers are so on the end of their ropes on the way down it's crazy.  They are literally taking two or three steps, falling down, two or three steps, falling down, etc.  The sherpas are constantly stressing "go, go, go!", "walk, walk, walk!!!".  The expedition leader, who runs the show from one of the lower camps, is constantly on the radio urging them on.
WATER, It does a body good.

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Offline Casa Grande

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Another Discussion...
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2006, 08:19:32 AM »
Quote from: "bdann"
On the Everest show last night on Discovery - they encountered the stricken climber.  They made a point to stress that the expedition leader felt rescue was impossible.  The guy was so high up, he estimated if it were possible at all, it would've taken 20 sherpas to get him down and chances are some of them would've been killed in the process.  

Some of the climbers did stop to help the man though.  One in particular gave the man oxygen, but was unable to revive him.  The head sherpa spent 25 minutes trying to revive him as well.  

Anyone that hasn't seen it should watch the show.  They are going to show every episode on Sunday.  These climbers are so on the end of their ropes on the way down it's crazy.  They are literally taking two or three steps, falling down, two or three steps, falling down, etc.  The sherpas are constantly stressing "go, go, go!", "walk, walk, walk!!!".  The expedition leader, who runs the show from one of the lower camps, is constantly on the radio urging them on.


yep, I've been watching too. It was pretty amazing photography.  I believe it was the first time anyone has had that much coverage of an expedition to Everest. ie., helmet cams.  It puts things into perspective.  But it also goes to show you how much trouble you can get into even if you pull all the stops.  Pretty amazing show.

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Offline Bobcat

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Another Discussion...
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2006, 08:45:32 AM »
Quote from: "presidio"
Quote from: "Bobcat"
From the AP:

"A lot of money" has been spent on the search


That is probably more than a 'bunch of money' you think?


Nothing quite like a "Human Interest Story" 24/7.

btw...last rescue cost estimate I heard(believe on MSNBC) = just over one million dollars for what that's worth.
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Offline Bobcat

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Another Discussion...
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2006, 09:22:22 AM »
Quote from: "presidio"
Quote from: "01ACRViper"
why do i have to hear about this one 24/7?


Because it is 24/7 news and dead air is the kiss of death to a station. The story is accessible, and riveting to people who's most strenuous activity is changing the TV channel.

Cable new is usually a total annoyance once you get past the first cycle and know what the headlines are. Incessant yammering about crap that wouldn't ever get printed in a newspaper because you can't have dead air.

If nothing else was available, these news professionals would make a story out of absolutely nothing....

Bob, tell us exactly how you wound this ball of string. Well Gene, I started at the center and it just got bigger as I went along. Fascinating, Bob, how dangerous was the winding? Gene, you really have to be careful or you could end up tangled in the ball. Wow! Who would ever have guessed it takes special skills and years of experience to do this safely. Bob, has anyone ever been lost making a string ball? Not to my knowledge, Gene, but one day I let Larry wind the ball while I ran to the convenience store for a package of bandaids...those string blisters really hurt when keeping the ball tight. When I got back Larry was gone and I haven't heard from him since. That bothers me because I want to ask him about the funny smell that emanated from the ball for a few days after he left.

Compelling information Bob. OK viewers, this concludes our exclusive coverage on string winding. Channel 7, always first on the scene with in depth reporting and commentary. It is your #1 preferred source for news and information. Don't go away, after the short commercial we will be back with breaking news on how to determine if dog poop is too old to pick up.


Guess it was Francis, not Bob(although I'm starting a ball today)
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