Caching questions & etiquette...photo buffs please comme

[trtlrock]

We have a few cache-related questions pertaining to our upcoming 2-week continuous hike in BBNP.

First, since I can't seem to figure out how to properly quote from one thread to another...here's what Mule Ears had to say about BBNP caching strategies... the Moderator was here

I have had good luck using five gallon buckets with lids for caches (the NTS inspectors at the airport always look through them when I fly and leave nice little notes that they have been there). They are large enough to easily hold 3-4 days worth of food and additional supplies (for two people) and the critters have never tried to get into them. I use gray or non-white ones so they can't be seen easily by the two legged critters. I tape the lid on to seal it and always put a waterproof label on that says "this is a food re-supply for hikers coming through the week of _____. Please do not disturb." I then hide it under some bushes to further disguise it and keep it cooler. We have just placed gallon or larger water jugs next to it and nothing has tried to get into them either. Just be very careful to note exactly where your put it! and of course pick them up after the hike.

All this makes sense & is basically the same methodology we employed on a portion of the Arizona Trail a few years ago...

My specific questions are...

1) an etiquette question:  when we are done & pick up all our caches we'll probably have a significant portion of good, unused water.  Is it a good idea to leave this water in an easily visible spot for other hikers to use?  For instance, at the beginning of the Dodson, or maybe at the beginning of the Chimneys Trail?  Seems a waste to pour it out.  Maybe "E" can comment on this from an NPS p.o.v.

2) camera batteries:  I would REALLY like to know what happens to camera batteries after 7-10+ days in a cache.  If they're in a bucket for that long, with temps ranging from the low 30s to the high 70s...how much will their performance be compromised?  I know that AA & AAA batteries will suffer tremendously from the cold, as did my large, snap-on, rechargeable camcorder battery that I used to use.

Here, though, I am specifically asking about the new, small, digital camera batteries for point-and-shoot cameras such as the Canon SD500 & SD700.  If, for instance, they will take 300-500 photos per charge under normal circumstances, what will they do after 10 days in the desert?

Is there anything to be gained by bagging & burying these batteries about 2-3" deep?  Would that appreciably change the temp ranges from 30-70 to, say, 40-60?

3) Beer & wine:  Boy, it would be nice to have a good Belgian beer here & there...nothing like a Chimay or a Leffe (or Kasteel, Corsendonk, Westmalle...sigh) after a full day of hiking.  But since these don't really decant well I'm assuming this would just be dumb.  Putting any glass-enclosed liquid in the cache bucket is just asking for a wet, sticky, ruined cache, right?

As to wine...same question.  It decants decently into a Nalgene for a few days at most, but not more than 2-3 days max.  Anybody have experience with a decent wine-in-a-box?  Something that's equivalent to a decent $8-$15 per bottle quality?

Thanks...John

[Bobcat]

I'm not a batt expert, but I think cold will slow them down until heated to their optimal functioning range. Heat can kill a lithium-ion batt(believe that's 99 F and above.

[presidio]

If they're in a bucket for that long, with temps ranging from the low 30s to the high 70s...how much will their performance be compromised?

Not at all. Put them inside your jacket to warm them up and everything will be fine. This works on Mt Everest and in Antarctica, it also will work at Big Bend.

Is there anything to be gained by bagging & burying these batteries about 2-3" deep?

Yes. Probably a citation from the NPS if they catch you digging.

Would that appreciably change the temp ranges from 30-70 to, say, 40-60?

Well, it might, but it makes no difference to a warmed battery and is not worth the effort. Think about it. These batteries experience the same temperature swings in your vehicle while you are out camping.

Putting any glass-enclosed liquid in the cache bucket is just asking for a wet, sticky, ruined cache, right?

Again, how is this different from being in the back of your vehicle for several days? As long as the bottle can't break you will be fine. And, what could be better than a beer naturally chilled to the optimum 35-40 degrees?

[bdann]

my personal experience with batteries is they do of course suffer in the cold, but once warmed up they work ok.  Just put the battery in your pocket for awhile before installing in the camera.  
Now I've never left one in a cache for a week, just overnight in a cold car or overnight in a cold tent or backpack.  

as far as leaving the water on the side of the trail, I'm gonna say that's probably not a good idea.  If no one ever stops to use it, you're essentially leaving trash on the trail.  

As far as the beer/wine, I don't see any harm in leaving a bottle of beer in your cache.  I'm not a wine person, but Super Target has these little square boxes of supposed "premium wine".

[trtlrock]

Yes. Probably a citation from the NPS if they catch you digging.

Zing... :oops:

as far as leaving the water on the side of the trail, I'm gonna say that's probably not a good idea. If no one ever stops to use it, you're essentially leaving trash on the trail.

this too makes sense.  the idea that someone could use it is nice, but unlikely to actually happen...

so...basically I'm hearing that leaving a battery in a bucket for 10+ days in the desert won't change performance at all once it's warmed up again.  I'm incredulous!  This is such a far cry from my camcorder days, that...well, I guess it just shows how out of touch I am with current camera technology...

John

[presidio]

so...basically I'm hearing that leaving a battery in a bucket for 10+ days in the desert won't change performance at all once it's warmed up again.  I'm incredulous!  This is such a far cry from my camcorder days, that...well, I guess it just shows how out of touch I am with current camera technology...John

If Li-on or NiMH just have it fully charged before you go.

If it is a disposable battery...alkaline, one-shot lithium, etc. it was already sitting on a store shelf far longer than you will leave it in your bucket.

[Robert]

Not that I have any experience with this but I've heard that Platypus bottles work really well for wine.  The problem with the older style Nalgene bottles were that they tended to pick up odor/flavor of previously stored liquids. The clear plastic probably works better.

Beer in bottles should be fine stored in a bucket at your cache. While I don't think the bottles will explode from cold weather you can always put them inside a large ziploc bag to protect the other items if they did.

[Casa Grande]

Is there anything to be gained by bagging & burying these batteries about 2-3" deep?

Yes. Probably a citation from the NPS if they catch you digging.

unless, of course, it's your poop. In which case you would get one from not digging deep enough.

seriously though, cold weather will drain your batteries.  I carry 3 fully charged batteries for my camera and the weight so insignificant, it's not worth cacheing.

[presidio]

unless, of course, it's your poop. In which case you would get one from not digging deep enough.

Correct....just don't bury it in an archeological site or you will be in....gasp....deep doo-doo.

seriously though, cold weather will drain your batteries. I carry 3 fully charged batteries for my camera and the weight so insignificant, it's not worth cacheing.

I agree that the weight is insignificant and I wouldn't bother caching. However, cold weather doesn't actually drain your batteries....it just slows down the chemical reaction that produces electricity. Which is why batteries recover when warmed. Pretty much the same reason (if different mechanism) why your fingers are stiff when cold and not when warm.

If you leave some alkalines, for example, on your dashboard and let them heat up significantly, even a battery that appeared dead from use will eke out a few more electrons. In that case it won't last long at all but will illustrate the principle.

[jeffblaylock]

I have cached AA and AAA batteries for a period of time, but I always carry enough extra batteries in case some fail. Camera batteries are lightweight and should be thought of as essential equipment if one of your goals is to photograph your experience. I wouldn't bother caching them; I'd carry them.

[Al]

Here's a thread that includes discussion  on premium box wine . . .

http://www.bigbendchat.com/viewtopic.php?p=17461#17461

Al

[trtlrock]

ok; we'll just carry enough camera batteries to be safe.  

When we're listing things to take with us on any given trip, it's funny how many times we end up saying, "oh -- that's OK, it doesn't really weigh anything."   :lol:  Once you've done that about 20-30 times you'd be amazed how heavy your pack is.

But, of course, in this particular case...well...they don't really weigh anything...

The Black's certainly looks good, but, at 3 litres, well -- it doesn't come with a dehydrated sherpa, does it?

John

[bdann]

When we're listing things to take with us on any given trip, it's funny how many times we end up saying, "oh -- that's OK, it doesn't really weigh anything."   :lol:  Once you've done that about 20-30 times you'd be amazed how heavy your pack is.

I find myself doing that every time.   :lol:

[presidio]

When we're listing things to take with us on any given trip, it's funny how many times we end up saying, "oh -- that's OK, it doesn't really weigh anything."   :lol:  Once you've done that about 20-30 times you'd be amazed how heavy your pack is.

I find myself doing that every time.   :lol:

Well, just get that magic bungee pack and you won't even know you're carrying anything.