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Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?

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Offline tjavery

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2012, 09:48:50 AM »
tj do you have any further opinion on the RX100?

Yes. It is freakin' awesome. For what it is (a very small camera, especially compared to DSLRs), it's amazing.

I bought one a few weeks ago to replace my aging and slightly busted up Canon G11. The best thing about the RX100, to me, is that it comfortably fits into my pockets. The G11 did not (too big).

Some of the highlights that I've observed so far:

- Very responsive and accurate autofocus (almost as good as a DSLR and 10x better than any compact p-n-s I've ever used before)

- Very responsive and quick shooting. It's quick to AF and then fire off a shot. Then it's ready for another shot quickly (again, the responsiveness is comparable to a DSLR, and it's far better than any compact p-n-s I've ever used).

- Really good high ISO performance (although there is a lot of noise reduction being applied.... I've compared the RAW files to the out-of-camera JPG files, and it's obvious that there's a lot of NR going on. However, the NR that is applied is very good and the resulting photos are very clean and sharp)
* Note that I've not tested long exposures (ie exposures longer than 1 second) yet in low light.

- Size. It's just so small. This does present some handling issues. It's easy to press buttons when you don't mean to. It will quickly slide out of your paws if you're not careful. But these issues can be overcome with experience and frequent use. It's like any camera - you have to use it a lot and become familiar with it.

And for some of the cons:

- There is no viewfinder (ie no optical or EVF type viewfinder). You compose entirely from the LCD on the back. But to be fair, the camera wouldn't be this small if it had a viewfinder. The LCD is fairly bright and does pretty well in bright sunlight.

- The battery is small (b/c the camera is small). It does have fairly good battery life, but it's not as good as my old G11 (which has a much larger battery). The good thing, for me, is that I can charge the battery in-camera and it takes the same plug (micro USB) as my phone.

- The price. It's high. Very high. But when you consider what this camera has and what it can do (especially having a large sensor), it somewhat justifies the price.


Here are some images that I've taken over the past few weeks. I've left the EXIF intact on these files so you can see the shooting settings. Take note of the ISO in a few of these  :icon_lol:













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Offline badknees

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2012, 11:25:00 AM »
I checked out the ISO on the concert photo and 3200 looks usable for web posting. Question? Was this one RAW and rendered in Photoshop or did you just re-size and post a .jpg straight out of the camera?

Also, does the camera cooked jpg look better than what you can do in ACR?

Looks pretty good. Have you tried any prints from the High ISO stuff?
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Offline tjavery

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2012, 12:49:59 PM »
I checked out the ISO on the concert photo and 3200 looks usable for web posting. Question? Was this one RAW and rendered in Photoshop or did you just re-size and post a .jpg straight out of the camera?

Also, does the camera cooked jpg look better than what you can do in ACR?

Looks pretty good. Have you tried any prints from the High ISO stuff?

All of the posted photos were in-camera JPGs that I just resized in PS.

I've messed around with the Raw files just a bit... enough to know that the in-camera JPGs have a heavy dose of NR applied. But I'm pretty impressed with the NR applied and the resulting JPG straight from the camera.

I haven't messed with ACR yet. But I have used the Sony software a bit. I can't really report anything back yet because I've just not spent enough time with it yet to form any solid conclusions.

No, I haven't tried printing yet.

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Offline badknees

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2012, 03:24:29 PM »
I checked out the ISO on the concert photo and 3200 looks usable for web posting. Question? Was this one RAW and rendered in Photoshop or did you just re-size and post a .jpg straight out of the camera?

Also, does the camera cooked jpg look better than what you can do in ACR?

Looks pretty good. Have you tried any prints from the High ISO stuff?

All of the posted photos were in-camera JPGs that I just resized in PS.

I've messed around with the Raw files just a bit... enough to know that the in-camera JPGs have a heavy dose of NR applied. But I'm pretty impressed with the NR applied and the resulting JPG straight from the camera.

I haven't messed with ACR yet. But I have used the Sony software a bit. I can't really report anything back yet because I've just not spent enough time with it yet to form any solid conclusions.

No, I haven't tried printing yet.

Waiting for the full review!  :icon_smile:
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Offline mule ears

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2012, 04:32:44 PM »
tj do you have any further opinion on the RX100?

Yes. It is freakin' awesome. For what it is (a very small camera, especially compared to DSLRs), it's amazing...

- The price. It's high. Very high. But when you consider what this camera has and what it can do (especially having a large sensor), it somewhat justifies the price.


I have been researching a new pocketable P&S as my canon s90 had some issues on the last trip that I attributed to too much fine sand.  The 3 that came to the top were the Panasonic Lumix LX7 that for me had lots of good things including ND filters but was too heavy and bulky.

The Sony RX100 but was too expensive and (right now at least) only in camera battery charging, for the last trip I had batteries waiting in all my resupply boxes.  I couldn't see spending that kind of money when I might tear it up too with too much dirt.

I settled on the Canon s100 for a very good price, much improved over the s90, not much behind the newest s110 and to some degree expendable.  I will wait for the RX100 to go down in price and to get some more track record but for now it looks like a winner in many ways.
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Offline tjavery

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2012, 06:55:35 PM »
I took some time and processed a raw file several different ways. Here's the result. You should be able to click this to see the full sized version.


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Offline badknees

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2012, 07:21:24 PM »
I took some time and processed a raw file several different ways. Here's the result. You should be able to click this to see the full sized version.



To my eye, No NR in RAW with the Neat Image PI looks best. Keeps some detail. Have you tried ACR yet to compare to the Sony Converter?
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Offline tjavery

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2012, 09:19:02 PM »
To my eye, No NR in RAW with the Neat Image PI looks best. Keeps some detail. Have you tried ACR yet to compare to the Sony Converter?

Yeh, the Neat Image plug-in is pretty good at killing the noise. But also the Sony files seem to clean up really well. That's just my unscientific opinion at this point. I've had a lot of experience cleaning up Canon files, and the Sonys seem to clean up better.

No, have not tried ACR yet.

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Offline kevint

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2012, 09:58:41 PM »
I would agree (and I think the Neat Image documentation suggests) that no other noise reduction should be used upstream of Neat Image.


Personally, when I started using Lightroom 3, I could no longer see the benefit of Neat Image.  LR3 seemed to do as good or better without all the profiling and confusing settings of Neat Image.  My understanding is that LR4 is another step up in noise processing.


Either way, it is amazing what can be done now adays.  Oh how I used to hate shooting 400 ASA color film with the grain and harsh contrast.  Now I don't even mess with noise reduction below 800 ISO.
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Offline Al

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2012, 10:57:47 PM »
I have been wrestling with what camera I want for Christmas  . . . my rule of thumb has always been, when it is time to buy a new camera, whether I can get at least twice the camera for the same price as my last one . . . a G9 @ ~ $600.  The Sony appears to fit the bill. 

An issue is whether or not to spend my money on a SLR body that costs about the same and start investing in lenses?  Buying an SLR seems like buying a cow.  Minimal skills otherwise.


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Offline badknees

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2012, 08:22:05 AM »
I would agree (and I think the Neat Image documentation suggests) that no other noise reduction should be used upstream of Neat Image.


Personally, when I started using Lightroom 3, I could no longer see the benefit of Neat Image.  LR3 seemed to do as good or better without all the profiling and confusing settings of Neat Image.  My understanding is that LR4 is another step up in noise processing.


Either way, it is amazing what can be done now adays.  Oh how I used to hate shooting 400 ASA color film with the grain and harsh contrast.  Now I don't even mess with noise reduction below 800 ISO.

I too have quit using Neat Image. I currently use LR 4 and find the NR more than good and find no need to go through the extra step of messing with Neat Image. They do however, a NI plug-in for LR.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 10:52:59 PM by badknees »
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Offline Traces of Texas

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2012, 11:33:01 AM »
Very informative thread and lots of good opinions.

I am really liking that Canon G15.  I need to have something that I can carry with me all the time. As Ansel Adams said, the time to take the picture is when you see the picture.  Carrying the 5D Mark III and attendant lenses is such a big production. Worth it but impractical on a daily basis.
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Offline Al

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2012, 10:40:46 PM »
TJ, have you tried portraits?  Is there a red eye problem?

Thank you,
Al

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Offline tjavery

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2012, 10:04:18 PM »
TJ, have you tried portraits?  Is there a red eye problem?

Thank you,
Al

Surprisingly, no. Not yet at least. I've not shot many using the flash. But the few that I have, there has been no red-eye. (and I say that I'm surprised because the body is so small and the flash is relatively close to the lens)

It does have a cool feature. The flash is a pop-up type. It's on a hinged mechanism, and you can actually manipulate where the flash points if you want to (on one axis). By default, it faces straight forward. But you can tilt the flash up with your finger to bounce it off the ceiling.

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Offline Al

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Re: Decent point and shoot for long exposure shots?
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2012, 10:15:23 PM »
Thank you! Love it.  One of the most important functions my camera must fulfill is to take dog pictures.  I have an external flash for the G9 with a diffuser which I tilt when taking portraits of the dogs.  The lack of hot shoe was worrying me.  I know what I want for Christmas!

Thank you again,
Al

 


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