Printers vs Labs

[xseption]

After reading Randell's RAW thread and the responses about printing, I began wondering about printers versus labs.

I have been using labs as needed for exhibitions and galleries, but I might start doing web sales and art shows. Would you recommend continued use of a lab or buy a great printer?

If lab, which would you recommend and why?


If printer, which would you recommend and why?

Thanks!

~ edd

[presidio]

If printer, which would you recommend and why?

Can't recommend a specific printer, but if you're going into commercial production you probably want something along the lines of either the Epson Pro Series (starting at around $2000 street) or the HP Design Jet photo printers, which are even more expensive).

While there are thermal dye units also available, they don't seem to have achieved quite the quality v. cost of the liquid ink printers.

Of course, you can always go a lot cheaper at the higher end of consumer models and produce very acceptable results. They just won't be suited to heavy output.

[bdann]

Edd, I think I'd stick with using a lab.  If you have a good lab and you like their work, then I'd stick with them.  They are professionals and have good equipment.  It's hard to replicate that at home without spending lots of money, plus the know how involved would take time to learn. 

[Roy]

I don't print many pics, but I like to do them myself.  I don't think you need to spend a lot of money on a printer, but it does take time and money (both ink and paper cost) to get it right.  Can be really frustrating.  Would also recommend buying a monitor calibrater;  if your monitor's off you're just spinning your wheels.

[tjavery]

I've seen good results from both. Prints from Mpix.com look pretty good (my most recent experience). And Mpix does NOT roll large prints when they ship them.

I mostly print at home (Canon i9900 dye-based inkjet). Aside from the initial cost of the printer itself, a 13x19" print costs me about $6 (paper+ink). The results are satisfying and I've received many compliments on the quality of the prints. I can print when ever I want and immediately re-do prints that I'm not satisfied with. (Plus I can print on demand when someone needs a print quickly)

(Needless to say that anything larger than 13x19" gets done at a lab)

The Canon seems to do well only using Canon-brand paper. And the inks are dye-based. These are probably the only negatives to this printer. Although no one really knows the true lifetime of one of these prints. I've read 25, 40, or up to 60 years, I think, but that is based on accelerated aging tests.

Some of the newer pigment-ink Epson and HP printer models look pretty good to me. But I'm satisfied enough with my printer not to change now. I expect that in another year or two, Canon will probably stop selling my ink tanks and I'll be forced to buy a new one.

Anyway, that's just me. I'm picky about my prints and I like to do them myself when I can

[tjavery]

...Would also recommend buying a monitor calibrater;  if your monitor's off you're just spinning your wheels.

Yessir! Most definitely. And you don't have to spend a lot of money to do so. A while back I bought one of these little things:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/426718-REG/ColorVision_S2E100_Spyder2express_Color_Calibration_System.html

It works great!

[homerboy2u]

...Would also recommend buying a monitor calibrater;  if your monitor's off you're just spinning your wheels.

Yessir! Most definitely. And you don't have to spend a lot of money to do so. A while back I bought one of these little things:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/426718-REG/ColorVision_S2E100_Spyder2express_Color_Calibration_System.html

It works great!

 Man, I tell you: You have got to start a NEW thread just to show us all the equipment you have. I bet you pretty much have a Batcave of smart equipment.

 You do that, and I will be drooling al the way to Ritz Camera......

[badknees]

...Would also recommend buying a monitor calibrater;  if your monitor's off you're just spinning your wheels.

Yessir! Most definitely. And you don't have to spend a lot of money to do so. A while back I bought one of these little things:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/426718-REG/ColorVision_S2E100_Spyder2express_Color_Calibration_System.html

It works great!

If you print at home you MUST calibrate your monitor. I actually saw the new Spyder3 Pro at Fry's today for $169.

Another thing that really brings it all together is a custom profile for your printer and media of choice. I use a Canon printer, but was never satisfied with the price or quality of Canon paper. I currently use Ilford Gallerie Smooth Gloss or Classic Pearl.

With the combination of profiled monitor and custom printer profile, I think my prints are far superior to any lab I have ever used. In addition most labs do NOT respect imbedded profiles, don't specify a rendering intent,  and expect sRGB. This can lead to out of gamut colors on the lab printer.  While this makes it simple for them, I can print with my printer at home capturing some colors that are outside the sRGB gamut particularly in the yellows, greeens, and blues.

Your statement that Canon only does well with Canon paper is erroneous. It is important that the right paper is used. There are four common types of photo-quality inkjet paper: RC, cast coated, and swellable papers usually used with dye inks, and cotton rag fine art papers used with pigment inks. You have to pick the right one for your ink type, but the key to color accuracy is the custom profile. the canned profiles available on the paper manufacturer's web site are not adequate to take in to account the variation in individual printers of the same model. In addition, to use profiles you must let your "color aware" printing application translate the image profile and pass it to the printer driver. Do NOT let the printer color manage.


Do you print from Photoshop? Qimage?, ?

Lesson over, sorry I get carried away about color. I spent many hours and much paper and ink trying to get it right. There are no shorcuts. Only a proper color managed workflow will produce accurate results.

[tjavery]

...Your statement that Canon only does well with Canon paper is erroneous...

Well, at least for my printer (the i9900) and all the other models that use the same ink set, they don't do so well printing on non-Canon papers. I've tried several non-Canon brands.

Yes, one issue is color management. Even with using profiles specific to the paper, the colors would never come out looking right. Perhaps this is the fault of the "canned" profiles not being accurate.

Regardless, the biggest issue and deal-killer was the quality. The ink just wouldn't take to the 3rd party papers like it would to the Canon papers. I had trouble with ink not drying on some papers and fading issues only months after initial printing on other papers.

I've never had any issues with fading, smudging, smearing, or ink not drying when using Canon paper with my Canon printer.

Hopefully the newer Canon printer models play better with 3rd party papers.

[badknees]

...Your statement that Canon only does well with Canon paper is erroneous...

Regardless, the biggest issue and deal-killer was the quality. The ink just wouldn't take to the 3rd party papers like it would to the Canon papers. I had trouble with ink not drying on some papers and fading issues only months after initial printing on other papers.

Your i9900 uses the same ink (BCi-6)  as my printer. It should take very well to the Ilford papers. I tried the "canned" profiles prior to getting a custom one done, and was not satified with the results.

[Roy]

I've been using an HP for quite a while, recently added an Epson R800(??).  I like Ilford paper but it takes forever to dry with HP or Epson, sometimes never dries completely.  Got any suggestions?. 

[badknees]

I've been using an HP for quite a while, recently added an Epson R800(??).  I like Ilford paper but it takes forever to dry with HP or Epson, sometimes never dries completely.  Got any suggestions?. 

Which Ilford paper are you using?

If you R 800 is pigment based ink ( I think it is), you need to be using a selection from the "Gallerie Smooth " collection, NOT from the "Gallerie Classic" collection.

[Roy]

I've been using an HP for quite a while, recently added an Epson R800(??).  I like Ilford paper but it takes forever to dry with HP or Epson, sometimes never dries completely.  Got any suggestions?. 

Which Ilford paper are you using?

If you R 800 is pigment based ink ( I think it is), you need to be using a selection from the "Gallerie Smooth " collection, NOT from the "Gallerie Classic" collection.

Will have to check when I get home;  think you're right.