Recommend a good point and shoot

[TexasAggieHiker]

I'm looking to replace/upgrade my old p&s.  It's been great, but it's time.  I'm looking for something that's lightweight and preferably will fit in my pocket.  Also taking regular batteries over a rechargeable is a requirement for long trips.  I'd like to be able to take shots of the starry night sky, if there is a P&S that can do that.  I'm jealous of the shots of the milky way rising over the chisos.  

[RichardM]

Check out the new camera woes topic for some discussion on P&S cameras. I have a Canon A720IS which can do 15 second exposures (minimum for star pics), has an optical viewfinder (big plus for shooting in the sun), and uses AAs. However, that model is discontinued and its replacements from Canon don't have the optical viewfinder. If I was going to go buy a P&S for BIBE photos, I'd put some of the Panasonic models at the top of the list.

Check out this post as well.

[tjavery]

If you want to buy on the "serious side" of p&s cameras, then I'd recommend the Canon G11, Canon S90, or the Panasonic LX3.

All of them will shoot in RAW, and that will allow you to squeeze the most technical quality out of the images as possible. The G11 and S90 share the same sensor I think.

Both Canons start at 28mm (full frame 35mm effective field of view), and the Panasonic starts at 24mm. For doing landscape work, I'd recommend going wide as possible, and 28mm is fairly good and 24mm is better.

Considering the max. aperture, the G11 starts at f/2.8, and both the S90 and LX3 start at f/2.0. This is important when you consider shooting star/night shots. You want the widest aperture possible. f/2.0 is 1-stop better than f/2.8.

The G11 is on the large side of things and is not "pocketable", but it will fit into a large coat pocket. It's not a very large camera, but it's larger than your average p&s. I'm not sure on the sizes of the S90 and the LX3. I believe they're a little smaller than the G11.

I don't think any of them take standard batteries. But, I can vouch for the G11's battery. It is awesome. It lasts quite long. If you're worried about battery capacity, then either buy a DC/AC converter thingy and recharge in your vehicle, or just buy a 2nd battery. I would guess that the G11's battery will last a good two or three days of frequent shooting before needing recharging.

Getting back to the star and milky way shots: I don't think any of these cameras or any current p&s will come close to what you can do with a DSLR and a fast wide angle lens.

If I had to, I'd try the LX3 for star shots. It's 24mm (effective) focal length combined with f/2.0 max. aperture is the best set of specs. But you'll still need to combine that with a 30 second exposure at ISO 1600 or 3200. The LX3 will do that, but I'm doubtful of the quality you will get. If anything, it might make a decent web-sized photo, but I'm just guessing here. (you'll also want to shot RAW and do some post-processing of the photo to get the most out of it)

BTW, Dpreview has a good database of cameras. Try using their camera finder tool:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

[Terlingua50337]

Whew! That wore me out just reading it. 

[tjavery]

Whew! That wore me out just reading it. 

  I've been using digital cameras since 2001. It makes my head hurt when I think of the massive amount of info related to using these things as well as the computer end of things (handing your files, processing, printing, etc.). And there's still a ton that I don't know (and possibly won't since there's new developments all the time and it's hard to keep up ).

[mule ears]

tjavery is right on the money as usual.  I have been using a Canon SD870 which has been fine (wide angle, big screen, fairly fast lense) but planning on buying an S90 for all the reasons he listed and it's more manual settings while still being a pocketable camera.

The battery issue is not so big as you would think.  I carry one extra "proprietary" battery for a week plus and have plenty of shots left over.  On my Paria river trip, which was difficult photo territory, I got almost 400 shots on one battery.

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/nonbibe-trip-reports/paria-river-canyon-utah-one-of-the-best-hikes-in-the-world-t8618.0.html

[dkerr24]

I'd recommend giving up on having a pocketable camera that runs on standard AA batteries.  Most manufacturers have gone to thinner, lighter cameras which use Li-ion batteries.  They provide more power for the weight than AA's do, and allow for much thinner and pocketable cameras.  As mentioned by others in this thread, battery life is quite good on these battery packs.

As long as you don't buy the manufacturer's branded battery, you can pick up a spare from Amazon quite cheap.  For example, Canon wanted over $40 for a battery pack for my G9.  I found compatible packs on Amazon for under $20, so I bought 2 spares for the cost of one Canon battery.

Darin

[TexasAggieHiker]

Thanks guys.  My problem is I don't know what I don't know.  Ya know?

[jeffblaylock]

Thanks guys.  My problem is I don't know what I don't know.  Ya know?

It's all about priorities. What are the "must haves," the "would likes," and the "would be great ifs"? Then narrow your search from there.

I use a Canon G9, predecessor to the G11 mentioned above, because I wanted to shoot RAW, use the existing Canon batteries, use a non-proprietary data card (see ya Sony), and take a lot of weight off my backpacking camera gear. In return, I lose the ability to take excellent wildlife shots, big wide-angle shots and astrophotography. All of those still require an SLR given that I've chosen the G9 as my base unit.

[tjavery]

...In return, I lose the ability to take excellent wildlife shots, big wide-angle shots and astrophotography. All of those still require an SLR given that I've chosen the G9 as my base unit.

I disagree. You can still shoot all those things especially when you know the camera's limitations. Sure, it may be a little more difficult vs. a DSLR generally speaking, but it can still be done.

But with a P&S you also:
- lose ability to use different and specialty lenses
- have less dynamic range (becomes a problem when shooting landscapes with greatly varying light)
- can't view through the lens to critically evaluate what you're shooting
- difficulties in getting precise focus
- generally more depth of field (which is usually a good thing when shooting landscapes)
- can't make exposures longer than 30 or 60 seconds
- generally have slower response time in performance (although the new crop of p&s's are getting much better, e.g. shorter power-up times and shorter shutter lag)

It's all about the compromises. A good p&s makes a lot of sense for backpackers wanting to minimize gear. A DSLR and lens system makes sense for someone wanting more technical quality out of their photos and/or the ability to go super-wide or super telephoto (although they make optical adapters for some p&s's).

You can take good photos with either system when you know the limitations of the system and how to use it well.

Another consideration is how you use your photos and what you do with them. If all you will ever do is post web-sized photos online, then you don't necessarily need a XX-megapixel DSLR. If you're interested in making quality large prints, then getting a DSLR makes sense.

[TexasAggieHiker]

The Panasonic LX3 looks really good.

[dkerr24]

I'm surprised there isn't an upgraded model to the Panasonic LX3.  It's been around since Nov '08.  That's pretty ancient in digital camera world.  The video on the Panasonic only supports 640 x 480 30fps... not that motion video is all that important...  I bring along my FlipVideo HD unit if I really want higher res video.

[TexasAggieHiker]

I've got a 2 hour Flip that I really like.  It's not HD, but takes good youtube videos.

[Picacho]

Sony just came out with this camera.  I am about to go get it and test it out next weekend.  It is amazingly small for a 10x lens. 

[mule ears]

Two good reviews for the S90 along with comparisons to similar cameras that tjavery mentioned.

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_s90-review/compare

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons90/page19.asp

It looks to be really a battle between the S90 and the Panasonic Lumix LX3