What's the deal?

[Al]

Dear friends (and Al?) - not sure to whom I am addressing this response - but I do want our side of this issue heard. As General Manager of the Holland (and long time member of Big Bend Chat) - I found that photo of lovely mountains - that was NOT copyrighted, water marked, credit required - nothing labeled as such - from a tourism website that has these "uncredited" photos available for use. I saw it under a "west Texas" category and liked the shot. Since it was NOT credited and I had seen a couple of other similar shots of this rustic area I liked - I chose it to use. If unintentionally we have infringed in any way on an artist’s work – I am happy to recompense give credit and/or discontinue use. I just need to hear from the artist directly so we can discuss – rather than do this through others. I am easy to contact at The Holland.

Thank you,

Wilding

Wilding, My photograph was posted in the Gallery with "by Al" clearly under it so you could have easily contacted me. I am glad you like it. Please send me a private message using the "MY MESSAGE" Icon on the menu bar. I am sure we can resolve this satisfactorily.

Al

Moderator note: or click here

[Doc Savage]

...I found that photo of lovely mountains  - that was NOT copyrighted, water marked, credit required - nothing labeled as such - from a tourism website that has these "uncredited" photos available for use. ...

Unfortunately you have a misunderstanding of the copyright laws. Even if a picture is released for public use as on this website you mention, it is technically copyrighted. According to the copyright laws of the US, images are copyrighted the moment they are made (the shutter is pressed). Now who owns the copyright becomes the question. If this is an individual on their own, they own the copyright. Even in an on assignment job, this could still be the case if they are operating outside the bounds of the job that they were there for. i.e. shooting a sunset while on assignment for an architectural shot. Out side the freelance area, it is more often the company/employer who owns the copyright for anything. So realistically ALL images you see are copyrighted. Individuals don't even have to register them as in the past, or can even register them in bulk collections over a time period. Registration while not required, does go a ways when recovering damages in the case of infringement.

Next you have to consider assigned rights. An image may be used for multiple purposes, with varying durations, and each may be priced individually and distinctly. For instance, if you purchase an image's rights for a brochure for your hotel, you most likely DON'T have the rights to use that image in a print aid. The fine print of the contract releasing rights to the image will describe exactly what uses and for what time periods you may use the image, and even whether the image is exclusive to your usage or not. This actually works both ways as a photographer must also be aware that portfolio usage of images with rights assigned to others may be an infringement unless a release is in the contract.

I did commercial photography for several years many years ago. The contract for image rights is the most important thing to a photographer's success. Know your rights, and know what your are doing, or not only you, but your customer can be in trouble. The business law and copyright rights books I read were more valueable to my business than any of the photography books I learned from, or even classes taken. Of course it helped that I was an engineer who worked with specifications when I was reading all this

Robert

[Al]

Doc, thanks and thanks everyone else.  Now that the Holland has responded, please give us a chance to resolve this which I believe is readily achievable through a simple barter.  I am sure the Holland did not have bad intentions and will act in an honorable manner.  As I have said, I am flattered that they like my photo, it is simply the circumstances by which it was used.

Al

[poke]

I think Al is trying to say "shhhh!" while he's arranging a giant bender bacchanal at the Holland for all of us. Thank's Al!

[homerboy2u]

I think Al is trying to say "shhhh!" while he's arranging a giant bender bacchanal at the Holland for all of us. Thank's Al!

 Really?...ya think?

[Casa Grande]

Dear friends (and Al?) - not sure to whom I am addressing this response - but I do want our side of this issue heard. As General Manager of the Holland (and long time member of Big Bend Chat) - I found that photo of lovely mountains  - that was NOT copyrighted, water marked, credit required - nothing labeled as such - from a tourism website that has these "uncredited" photos available for use. I saw it under a "west Texas" category and liked the shot. Since it was NOT credited and I had seen a couple of other similar shots of this rustic area I liked - I chose it to use. If  unintentionally  we have infringed in any way on an artist’s work – I am happy to recompense give credit and/or discontinue use.  I just need to hear from the artist directly so we can discuss – rather than do this through others.  I am easy to contact at The Holland.

Thank you,

Wilding  

wow, late to the party folks but I thought I'd put my two cents in anyway.

What a blatant disregard for copyright.  Who do you think you are taking any photo that isn't yours and using it for advertising purposes?  If I were Al, I'd be way more than a little pissed and would probably seek legal action.  

Wilding, it is not AL's responsibility to contact YOU, it YOUR responsibility to contact HIM.  

Secondly, this is not a "tourism" website.  It is a private website ran and frequented by fans of Big Bend.  I never felt the need to put a copyright notice at the top of the page, as RichardM has now done, because I figured that was simply common knowledge. 

from a tourism website that has these "uncredited" photos available for use.

This sentence is very disturbing to me.  There are no photos on this website or any other website in the world that are "available for use." Much less, for advertising!  I think you need to be careful in the future and consider this a lesson learned.  Plus, consider yourself lucky Al is being a nice guy about this.

[wilding]

Al,
I seem to have trouble sending you a message (I have only done that a couple of times in last five years!) - since you know how to find me- please do - would really love to chat and discuss this. Help me figure out what issue is and how we make things fair. Sorry - I haven't looked at "gallery" (I gather you meant here on chat?) and seen anyone's photos in a loooong time. I only touch base on this site a few times a year when headed to the Bend. Now that I live here - I will have to log on more often.

Feel free to try sending me a message.

Thank you,

 

[Al]

Al,
I seem to have trouble sending you a message (I have only done that a couple of times in last five years!) - since you know how to find me- please do - would really love to chat and discuss this. Help me figure out what issue is and how we make things fair. Sorry - I haven't looked at "gallery" (I gather you meant here on chat?) and seen anyone's photos in a loooong time. I only touch base on this site a few times a year when headed to the Bend. Now that I live here - I will have to log on more often.

Feel free to try sending me a message.

Thank you,

 

I think the issue has been pretty clearly stated on this thread and I'll call you tomorrow.  Will the general hotel number work?  Should I, "Al", ask for Wilding?

[wilding]

Okay - just to clarify again - I did NOT download this photo from Big Bend Chat!!! I found it elsewhere - and again it had no photographer name, credit info, copyright or watermark stamp - and was in with other photos of west Texas I did a search on in another stock site.  I have searched out photographers for other collateral I have created- and used photos where I have given credit or paid where necessary - I have NO problem with that! I am an artisit myself and appreciate that courtesy. I do not appreciate being slandered before one has all the information and facts - especially if one is NOT the photographer. This issue is now between me and the photographer - please!

Thank you.

[RichardM]

Okay - just to clarify again - I did NOT download this photo from Big Bend Chat!!! I found it elsewhere - and again it had no photographer name, credit info, copyright or watermark stamp - and was in with other photos of west Texas I did a search on in another stock site.  I have searched out photographers for other collateral I have created- and used photos where I have given credit or paid where necessary - I have NO problem with that! I am an artisit myself and appreciate that courtesy. I do not appreciate being slandered before one has all the information and facts - especially if one is NOT the photographer. This issue is now between me and the photographer - please!

For me the primary issue is that someone out there apparently grabbed a copy of Al's picture and added it to their "stock site". Perhaps if you could reveal your source then others could check to see if any of their images have been appropriated as well.

[Terlingua50337]

I don't have much posted here but I wouldn't mind knowing where he found Al's picture myself.

[MilesOfTexas]

For me the primary issue is that someone out there apparently grabbed a copy of Al's picture and added it to their "stock site". Perhaps if you could reveal your source then others could check to see if any of their images have been appropriated as well.

I second this.

[Ay Chihuahua!]

It seems to me that if wilding will not divulge the name of this "other site," then it becomes a moral imperative for Al to take some sort of legal action in order to get to the  bottom of it.  To be quite honest, I don't believe there is another site.  But, if there is, it is running an illegal business akin to the Napster file sharing scam against the recording industry by taking what isn't theirs and sharing it freely online.

Edit: It turns out after a bit of Googling that there are in fact free travel photo websites.

[RichardM]

It seems to me that if wilding will not divulge the name of this "other site," then it becomes a moral imperative for Al to take some sort of legal action in order to get to the  bottom of it.  To be quite honest, I don't believe there is another site.  But, if there is, it is running an illegal business akin to the Napster file sharing scam against the recording industry by taking what isn't theirs and sharing it freely online.

I tend to think there is such a site, as I Googled up several sites with stock photos with lots of Big Bend shots. I just didn't run across Al's shot in the few I looked at.

[Ay Chihuahua!]

It seems to me that if wilding will not divulge the name of this "other site," then it becomes a moral imperative for Al to take some sort of legal action in order to get to the  bottom of it.  To be quite honest, I don't believe there is another site.  But, if there is, it is running an illegal business akin to the Napster file sharing scam against the recording industry by taking what isn't theirs and sharing it freely online.

I tend to think there is such a site, as I Googled up several sites with stock photos with lots of Big Bend shots. I just didn't run across Al's shot in the few I looked at.

I guess you were doing what I was doing (see my edit above).