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Big Bend Conservancy

Over-estimating your experience or under-estimating the terrain in a place like Big Bend can result in serious injury or death. Use the information and advice found here wisely. Climb/Hike/Camp/Drive at your own risk.


Recent Posts

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1
Non-BIBE Trip Reports / Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Last post by presidio on July 21, 2018, 06:05:35 PM »
Quote
Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day

To emphasize your point on UTC, the BBC forum and most modern networks run on UTC. The displayed time is an setup option. The underlying is UTC.

Getting everyone to live their daily lives communicating UTC might be a stretch, but a 24 hour clock is a no-brainer.

Most of Europe runs on the 24 hr clock. So should we, but attempting a wholesale change likely would fail as pathetically as the metric push. But, through international trade and manufacturing, SI increasingly is pushing the fractional/English/SAE/inch (no one really knows what to call it)  scheme into the dustbin of history. Perhaps the same thing will happen with time as the digital world continues to expand.

Every clock I have that can be set to 24 hr display, is. My cheap Timex digital watch is set to local time and the alternate view is UTC.

I know a few highly educated folks who simply cannot seem to convert PM times to the 24 hour clock (or vice versa) without angst and stress, and sometimes a refusal to even try. The fact that you merely add or subtract 12 hrs is a skill lost on them. It drives them to distraction when I say or write 24 hr times. They want me to do the conversion for them; I tell them to do the math.
2
Non-BIBE Trip Reports / Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Last post by badknees on July 21, 2018, 04:38:27 PM »
Quote
Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day

To emphasize your point on UTC, the BBC forum and most modern networks run on UTC. The displayed time is an setup option. The underlying is UTC.

Getting everyone to live their daily lives communicating UTC might be a stretch, but a 24 hour clock is a no-brainer.
3
Non-BIBE Trip Reports / Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Last post by presidio on July 21, 2018, 03:59:00 PM »
Technically, GUMO is still in the Central Time Zone;  however, the park unofficially observes Mountain Time, probably because that puts it in the same time zone as Carlsbad Caverns National Park and the administrative office for both in Carlsbad.

Maybe. Who knows? Some years ago I saw a detailed map of where the time zone boundary ran in the vicinity of the park, but cannot now find it. That map implied a legal change to the boundary location, but I also cannot locate any references that such has officially occurred.

However, that map had an interesting layout as the line was immediately east of US 62/180 and turned west (running north of 62/180) in the flats below Guad peak until intersecting the Hudspeth county line, where it turned south. While not marked on the highway, if driving to El Paso you briefly left the MTZ and reentered the CTZ.

Regarding time zones, as I have noted in the past, it makes zero sense for Big Bend to be in the Central time zone. No apparent political or economic interest is served by staying in the CTZ and no detrimental effects would occur if it properly were placed in the MTZ, which is logically where it belongs. Moving the line would eliminate sunrise and sunset being quite obviously out of sync with the latitude (as long as we continue to play the time zone game...see below).

Quote
This is an endless source of confusion to park visitors, whose cell phones often hit towers running on Central Time and thus think the time is one hour later than what is observed in the park.

A genuine first-world problem. Before mobile phones, no one paid much attention to this "problem" and life went on. You either knew where you were and what time it was, or you didn't, and you either were on time for things or not.

If you want to be totally confused, and bang the hell out of your mobile phone swapping times, take a particular drive through NE Arizona.

This route carefully was selected to maximize the number of changes due to a peculiarity of the Hopi/Navajo boundaries. With respect to this situation, the Hopi reservation is completely surrounded by the Navajo rez; however, a tiny piece of Navajo is completely surrounded by Hopi and, while shown on detailed maps, is a factoid oblivious to many.

Arizona and the Hopi do not observe DST
The Navajo and Utah use DST

Roads are AZ 77, AZ 264, US 160 and US 87

Start in Holbrook AZ on I-40 and go north on AZ 77 onto the Navajo reservation, into the Hopi Pueblo, into the Navajo portion surrounded by Hopi,  back onto Hopi, across a short piece of Navajo, back onto a Hopi outlier, into Navajo for the last time, off the rez into Page and cross into Utah northwest of Page on US 87.

Using 10 am (and assuming you do all this within an hour so as to make it simple), here is what you will find as a result of that damned daylight savings time:

Holbrook, 10 am
Navajo rez, 11 am
Hopi rez, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Hopi, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Hopi, 10 am
Navajo, 11 am
Page, 10 am
Utah, 11 am

A mere nine! (9) time changes in a distance of  235 miles. Does anyone do these changes? Of course not. In fact, some of it doesn't even register on mobile phones, but it all exists.

Generally, it affects no one other than the locals, who are well-versed in what time it is and when openings/closings occur.

This extreme example illustrates how idiotic and unnecessary is DST; it should be legislated out of existence, as Arizona and Hawaii very wisely have done on their own. However, there are politicians (I believe Rubio is one) who want to make DST a permanent year round event. As comedian Chris Rock intoned in his video "How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police" the only phrase that comes to mind is "that's just ignorant."

Actually, there long has been two proposals which would solve a lot of problems, but are unlikely to ever happen.

The first is to put the US on only two time zones, with no DST: Eastern and Western. The line would be where the current CTZ/MTZ line is (that proposal does not change the idiocy of the west TX situation. One variant has the zones separated by one hour; another has a two hour separation. Either would be an improvement.

The other, far more logical solution, is to put the entire planet on Universal Time (UTC), with no time zones. Undoubtedly, those that go to work at 8am and then find themselves going to work at 5pm would be resistant due to an inability to accept change. Actually, UTC runs on a 24 hr clock, so the problem of which o'clock it is is forever eliminated, and you would go to work at 1700 hrs instead of 0800.

UTC (erroneously and frequently called 'military' or 'scientific' time) is just a much simpler system. Folks can get used to anything (unless they are Luddites...as we are with the metric system in the US). Aviation, communications, international interests, NIST clocks and a myriad (or perhaps a plethora) of others run on UTC even if you don't see it. UTC makes the most sense and eliminates the issue of what time it is anywhere. Yeah, the sun might rise at 1500 hrs in Big Bend, but once you stop having to change clocks due to latitude or DST, everything becomes so much simpler. Even the haters would learn to like in short order.

Even BBC is on 24 hr time. Check out the post times for the last half of the day.


4
Non-BIBE Trip Reports / Re: Needles trip
« Last post by presidio on July 21, 2018, 01:36:38 PM »
I am reminded of a disturbing sign I saw in the showers at Mesa Verde.  It was of the same red circle with a person crapping under the shower fixture. 

What's wrong with people?  Do they practice this at their own home? 

ALWAYS wear shower shoes at public showers!

It's Asians.  Although Western-style toilets are becoming more common, in China and southeast Asia, the most common accommodation for taking care of business is essentially a hole in the floor over which the user squats.  Visitors from those parts to this country sometimes are confused by toilets and squat on the bowl, and shower stalls bear a resemblance to the accommodations back home and are used as such, hence the signage.

I guess the grate over the drain with the tiny holes to strain debris isn't enough of a clue, not to mention the small size of the hole.
5
GUMO General Discussion / Re: Guadalupe Ridge Group Trip Planning
« Last post by wrangler88 on July 21, 2018, 09:55:51 AM »
For anyone who might have missed this ...

I am now going to GUMO August 3 or 4 - 8th for sure. If anyone is interested in doing the ridge route (yes in the heat), I'm still up for giving it a shot.

If no one is interested and I don't have a second car to shuttle me back to my car at the end of the ridge route, I am just going to ramble around the GUMO backcountry and anyone is welcome to join.

Probably still do some off trail stuff. But no crazy miles or anything.

Either way, I'll have a trip report, pictures, and some videos coming in a few weeks.
6
Non-BIBE Trip Reports / Re: Needles trip
« Last post by Jonathan Sadow on July 21, 2018, 03:08:07 AM »
I am reminded of a disturbing sign I saw in the showers at Mesa Verde.  It was of the same red circle with a person crapping under the shower fixture. 

What's wrong with people?  Do they practice this at their own home? 

ALWAYS wear shower shoes at public showers!

It's Asians.  Although Western-style toilets are becoming more common, in China and southeast Asia, the most common accommodation for taking care of business is essentially a hole in the floor over which the user squats.  Visitors from those parts to this country sometimes are confused by toilets and squat on the bowl, and shower stalls bear a resemblance to the accommodations back home and are used as such, hence the signage.
7
Non-BIBE Trip Reports / Re: Grand Canyon Fandango
« Last post by Jonathan Sadow on July 21, 2018, 02:48:37 AM »
Now if we could push it a little bit further west where we could pick up, say.... The Grand Canyon!

Wishful thinking at best.

However, there IS a line in TX that should have been pushed EAST a long time ago.

That would be the Central/Mountain time zone line.

Big Bend ought to be in the Mountain Time Zone. If it was the sun would rise at a reasonable time in the morning, and it properly would be included in the mountain west.

I've always been baffled at what purpose is served by the Central Time Zone extending so far west in TX.

It has to be some warped political decision, as there is no apparent economic reason nor benefit for the present layout. Every place north of west TX is in the mountain zone.

El Paso and GUMO are on mountain time. It is further baffling why this tiny slice was put (but properly) in the mountain zone.

It can be changed and in the case of GUMO it was. The zone line initially split the park right down the middle. It was moved east to put the entire park in the mountain zone.

Technically, GUMO is still in the Central Time Zone;  however, the park unofficially observes Mountain Time, probably because that puts it in the same time zone as Carlsbad Caverns National Park and the administrative office for both in Carlsbad.  This is an endless source of confusion to park visitors, whose cell phones often hit towers running on Central Time and thus think the time is one hour later than what is observed in the park.
8
GUMO General Discussion / Re: NY Times article on GUMO
« Last post by Al on July 21, 2018, 12:44:13 AM »
I have a fond memory of driving 652 to the park back in the CB radio days.  Heard Guy 1 saying:  "Why are all these people waving at me?  I pulled over to see if I had a low tire and didn't see any problem." 

Guy 2 says, "They're just being friendly." 

Guy 1 says, "Oh."  Guy 1 apparently wasn't from around here.
9
GUMO General Discussion / Re: NY Times article on GUMO
« Last post by presidio on July 20, 2018, 10:28:35 PM »
Fake news.  It's 485 miles from Austin, not 500. 

No, it's just whether you go through Van Horn, or decide to tour Orla on the way in.  :s_laugh:

Most probably have never been through Orla.
10
GUMO General Discussion / Re: NY Times article on GUMO
« Last post by Casa Grande on July 20, 2018, 09:26:44 PM »
Fake news.  It's 485 miles from Austin, not 500. 

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