Need help planning trip for Nov. 6-11

[GreenMuse]

Hello all!

I'm here in search of some advice, and I'm sure some of you veteran benders have some to offer me. My boyfriend and I are planning a trip to Big Bend for November 6-11. It will be our first time going, and we are both very excited. In preparation for our trip, I have combed through the NPS website, studied maps, taken notes, typed up a rough (very unfinished) itinerary, made note of some booklets and maps to purchase, etc...yet I'm still having trouble deciding what we should plan to do. I have a rough idea of things we'd like to do, but nothing set in stone. Big Bend is so...well, BIG. There are so many places to see and things to do, I'm overwhelmed with the plethora of options to choose from. Any tips (big or small), opinions, past experiences, lessons learned...all will be greatly appreciated, and I'd like to thank you all in advance.

We plan to leave Austin early in the morning on the 6th, spend 5 nights in Big Bend, and head back to Austin on the morning of the 11th.

I've had a couple of friends tell me that going to Big Bend in November means braving some pretty chilly temperatures. Personally, I love autumn and would prefer some cooler weather. I'm not against breaking out my favorite autumn sweater, and if we have to snuggle at night to keep warm, that's fine. I looked on the NPS site for average November temps and saw that average highs are something like 78 degrees and average lows are something like 42 degrees. I'll admit, 42 degrees is pretty chilly for me, and I realize that temps really depend on where you camp and whatnot...but being that it's 110 degrees at the end of August, I feel like it'll still be relatively warm-ish during our stay in a couple of months. We'll be packing enough clothing to make it through a variety of temperatures...but what are you guy's thoughts? Is there a good chance we'll be freezing our butts off? If you've stayed in Big Bend in early November before, what were your experiences with the weather? Would you recommend moving up our trip to sometime in mid October?

We will for sure be renting a vehicle for the trip, as both of our vehicles are somewhat older and we'd like to avoid breaking down 500 miles from home. I initially thought we should rent a roomy 4 door car to save on the actual rental price and gas, but after studying some maps and reading up on some of the campsites we'd be interested in checking out, I discovered that a lot of Big Bend is explorable only to those driving high clearance 4x4 SUVs or trucks. This makes me want to spend the extra money on a better rental that will allow less limited exploration and campsite options. We're in our mid-early 20's, so the more economical we can plan our trip the better, and I'm sure there's plenty to do and see in a sedan...but at the same time, we don't want to end up in Big Bend wishing we had a vehicle that could take us to the places we can't reach in a sedan. Should we spend the extra cash, or would it be perfectly fine to opt for the cheaper alternative?

As far as camping goes, we'd definitely like to stay in a few different spots and would like to check out some back-country sites. I'm thinking solitude, stars, and waking up to a beautiful view right outside our tent...which are probably available at nearly every campsite. We'd prefer not to camp near a lot of other people. What are some of your favorite spots?

As far as hiking and trail suggestions, please keep in mind that I'm not exactly in the best physical shape, but I'm also not in the worst shape and would definitely be willing to put forth some extra effort for some rewarding views and awesome photo ops. Definitely want to check out the window trail. Day trip suggestions are appreciated...Where's the best spot to hike and catch a breathtaking sunset?

Definitely want to check out some interesting ruins, the hot springs for sure...any other suggestions?

Also would like to plan a river float. We've gone on a few river trips before, and we LOVE it, though I'm not too experienced in crazy waters. We've always had our own canoe and someone to pick us up down river, but will not have either of those for this trip. We'd be interested in renting the necessary gear and possibly paying for a shuttle, though if there's a way around the shuttle part, that'd be awesome. What's the best canyon to check out on a day trip? What's the best company to rent and shuttle with?

All in all, we just want to check out some awesome spots, which I know there are plenty of...but we need help on choosing, and we want to avoid over-planning.

Thanks so much for any advice offered!!!

[trtlrock]

Definitely make sure you can weather a night in the low 30s, or even upper 20s. Unlikely, but it could happen. DEFINITELY splurge for the 2WD hi-clearance, or the 4WD. You will not be sorry.

Other than that, don't try to do too much. If you like it, you'll be back many times -- and BiBe is so vast, and it takes so long to drive from spot to spot, you're much better off planning quality over quantity.

I'd look into one of the Terlingua Abaja sites. You're within easy hiking distance of Santa Elena canyon, Brouja canyon. Much to explore and not a lot of elevation changes if you hike nearby. The sites are secluded & the scenery can't be beat.

Have fun!

[elhombre]

That is the most excited first post I can remember reading in a long time.  It makes me happy to read that people can still get so excited about going out to BB.   

As the weather goes, if a cold front comes in, it may snow.  No cold front, it will be sweaty hot. 

I would suggest you plan on staying in the Basin campground for at least the first few nights.  You have the Lost mine trail and window trail you can do in one day.  Emory peak and back is another.  Want more? Do the loop to the south rim but leave early so you can spend as much time as possible on the south rim sitting.  That's three days right there.  One day driving down to Castalon.  One day to Rio Grande village and back.

Big Bend is just like Mexico............manana......  Slow down.......There is no way you can do anything but scratch the surface of the desert in 5 short days.

[Al]

Excellent advice.  A 2 WD truck will get you any where you want to go.  However, the thing with a rental vehicle, particularly since you are within driving distance, is you will have to pay for any damage, which in the most remote areas of the park, may be paint scratches due to overgrown vegetation.  If you own an older vehicle that's no big deal. 

What vehicles do you have? 

There are LOTS of places you can go in a sedan with no problem, particularly your first trip.  On our last trips this year we have driven 1998 trucks.  Think about how many miles you drive routinely.  A trip to Big Bend might be 1,100 or 1,200 miles.  What are the odds of a break down?  For less than the price of a rental you can join AAA if you don't trust your vehicle. 

Weather will be highly variable in November.  I would watch the 10-day forecasts right before you go and plan accordingly.

Al

[dkerr24]

First of all, welcome to the site!  I think you'll find the folks that frequent this site are friendly and helpful.

If driven slowly and carefully, you can get down many backcountry roads in BIBE.  I saw Civic's on the road to the Hot Springs.

Like stated by others, don't try to do too much on your first visit.  Definitely, you'll want to spend a night or 2 in the basin, and in reality, it may be WARMER up there than down in the desert at night.

Lost Mine Trail, and a hike up to the South Rim are must do's.

Darin

[catz]

BB is really three separate parks:  the mountains; the desert; and the river.  Each has its own attractions.

I recommend spending two nights in the mountains at the Basin Campground.  It will be colder there but likely not freezing.  While there, hike the Lost Mine and Windows trails on one day and the South Rim on the other.  The South Rim is 12 plus miles round trip and quite strenuous but it offers the best views in the entire park.  Plan on eating lunch at the rim.  The hike itself is very rewarding.  The Pinnacles Trail, in particular, has some beautiful stretches.

Then go down into the desert where it should be considerably warmer.  Very little chance of freezing.  On the West side of the Chisos, excellent day hikes include:  Cattail Falls, Upper Burros Mesa, Mule Ears Spring, the Chimneys, and Santa Elena Canyon.  I also highly recommend hiking in both directions for two or three miles from Homer Wilson Ranch.  You can't do all these in just a couple of days but you should be able to do three or four of them.  All are worthwhile.  Above all, take your time and enjoy what you can see.  I can't think of any specific desert camping sites on the west side, but ones on the north side abound and provide ready access to the west side.

Then head over to the east side of the Chisos.  In my opinion, one of the best hikes in the park is Pine Canyon.  It's semi-remote and quite rough to get to but the hike itself is great.  There are primitive campsites along the access road to the canyon that you could use as a base of operations for the east side.  Other east side attractions include an easy hikle to Ernst Tinaja and the Hot Springs (which are easy to get to to and can be done at the end of a long day of hiking).  If you have the gumption for a very long day hike, Bantu Shut in is excellent (or so I hear; I haven't actually been there myself).  You can also check out Boquillas Canyon, an easy hike. 

Finally, if you are willing to allow a full day for it, drive down to the River Road (high clearance necessary, but not necessarily 4WD) and take the hike to Mariscal Canyon rim.  Maybe the most remote section of the park, Mariscal lies at the apex of the Bend in "Big Bend".

And that leaves the River.  There are outfitters in the Lajitas area that can take you through Colorado Canyon, just upstream of the Park.  It's a full day trip.  Trips through more canyons will take overnight or longer.  Personally, I think you should defer the river itself until another trip.  Five days there sounds like a lot of time, but believe me, it's not.

To sum up: 

1.  Camp in the Chisos Basin and hike the South Rim; it is the premier hike in the entire park.  Leave as early as possible and allow a full day.

2.  Hike the Window and Lost Mine Trails.  Allow another day.

3.  Move camp to the a north side desert site and explore the Ross Maxwell Scenic Drive, which runs the entire west side of the park.  Explore it as much as you can in a couple of days.  Cattail Falls, up and down from Homer Wilson, and Santa Elena Canyon are among the must see's.

4.  Move over to Pine Canyon.  Hike Pine Canyon and visit the Hot Springs.  If time permits, check out Ernst Tinaja, especially near sunset.

Just about all of the desert camping sites offer outstanding views of the Chisos Mountains and other ranges.  But be advised that the desert camping sites are truly primitive:  no table, no water, no grill, no nothing--just a cleared out space in the dirt.  Solitude is guaranteed.  Up in the mountains, on the other hand, the Chisos Basin camprground is almost over-developed.  Tables, store, restaurant.

[GreenMuse]

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to share with me!
Taking all of your advice to heart.

I think we'll start off in the Basin and work our way around the park. We'll definitely check out the Lost Mine trail, Window trail, and South Rim. Also definitely going to explore Ross Maxwell, check out Cattail Falls and Santa Elena canyon for sure. Pine Canyon and Hot Springs near the end of the trip. Plans are slowly coming together, getting more and more excited every day.

Hooking up with AAA as an alternative to renting is a fantastic idea. If we decided to take one of our own vehicles, it'd definitely be my boyfriend's 97' Toyota 4Runner. It's 4 wheel drive and has a slight lift, which is perfect...only thing is it has over 240,000 miles on it, and even with AAA I'd hate for the water pump or transmission to go out while we're out there. Talk about a buzz-kill. Also, there are a few things we'd want/need to do as pre-trip maintenance...a couple new tires, replace a couple of belts, spark plugs and wires, oil change. All of these are things we'd need to do anyway. I'll give AAA a call and see what they offer. Taking the 4Runner would be preferred, but the frugal side of me says that depending on our final itinerary if it's not absolutely necessary to take a high clearance vehicle it'd be best if we just opted for a rental sedan --- just so the possibility of breaking down is nearly eliminated, and we'd save a ton on gas. It'd just make me feel better. Still, AAA is a very good idea...will talk it over and do some number crunching, and we'll see.

Will try to post a final-ish itinerary to see what you guys think just to be sure we're not trying to cram too much in 5 days.

Again, thank you all for your input! 

[Al]

If the 4 Runner is a daily driver I'd go for it.  Proven reliability!

Al

[catz]

High clearance is much more important than 4 wheel drive.  I have been in all over the park in a regular sedan, including Pine Canyon twice.  Of all the hikes discussed in this entire thread, I think only Ernst Tinaja and maybe the Mariscal Rim hikes will you need even the high clearance.  However, if it's been raining, many of the dirt roads will become impassable for a day.  But that still means the Basin, all the hikes off Ross Maxwell, and several north-and-east side hikes will still be accessible.  Bottom line, don't seat it if you wind up taking a regular passenger car.

[elhombre]

I am going to have to differ about roads becoming impassible if it rains.  I have been witness to rain ,snow, and ice in the desert on different occasions, and  the only road that becomes a problem is River Road.  Next to the river, the road is crossed by many drainages and it is built on dirt that becomes mud quickly when wet.  It also doesn't drain well because the road is often lower than the area around it.  Most other roads are pushed through the rock of the desert, and unless it is actively flooding, they dry out quickly and don't harbor mud.  Only once have I had the privilege to see a flash flood after a rain out there beside Rice tank, and the road was simply wet after only 4-5 hours after the rain stopped.  But I am talking about a RAIN STORM that I doubt I will ever forget.

Your biggest concern is the condition of your tires.  The roads are in the best condition I have ever seen them in 10 years.  (obama money).  I still suggest you plan on staying in an established campground, then explore Glenn Springs road to see what you are up against so you are better prepared for your next trip.  Use the "Easy Button" your first time out. 

[riverrat]

No other replies in a while but in case you still are checking in...
1) Sunset at Sotol Vista Overlook on Ross Maxwell near Homer Wilson will not disappoint if there any clouds that day.
2) Bring a full size spare, 2 if you have room and you plan on doing a lot of backroads. (We've had flats on road to Hot Springs and on the Dagger Flat auto trail, but NOT on Old Ore Rd. Go figure our luck.)
3) Air compressor and flat "repair plugs" might also come in handy.
4) Water. Lots of it.
5) Grapevine Hills is a nice, easy, shortish hike but also popular. Get there early for a bit more solitude.
6) Be there EARLY to get your primitive sites. I mean EARLY.

Have fun and be sure to give a trip report when you get back!

[Homer67]

I've been down Glenn Springs road, then up Pine Canyon Road...is it not too bad from the Pine Canyon turn off to Juniper Canyon?  How is Juniper Canyon up to the Dodson trailhead? We have a 2wd suv with decent clearance, I hope it will do.

[Homer67]

Ok, cool!  I have been eager to explore this part of the park!

[hunterhughes]

QS, you parked at Rice Tank and headed west towards Juniper Canyon?  My wife likes topography and rocks.  This looks flat on the map.  During that two hour hike is there much elevation change or is it similar to the Dog Canyon approach? 
I plan on Doing Pine Canyon and this sounds like a nice addition.  Thank you, Tom

[steelfrog]

11-12 HOURS!  What is the distance we are talking about here QS?