Recommend me a nice long route for next week....

[brendan]

My wife and I will be headed down to Big Bend for the first time next week and could use some suggested routes.  I've seen a lot about the OML but we'd like something a bit longer, maybe 60-80ish mile loop if possible.  Cross country sections are fine.  Mule Ears' Sierra Quemada/Mariscal mt loop looks like a good option, I just want to make sure we see the must see stuff for a first time visit. 

background: we hike mostly in southern/eastern utah, pack light, and usually hike around 20 miles per day.  Sounds like water is potentially more scarce than the CO plateau so any water info is appreciated as well.

Thanks!

[trtlrock]

See this index, which might help:

http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/your-trip-reports/backpacking-trip-reports-index/

You'll note at the bottom two long-distance treks my wife & I took, but which I have yet to turn into actual trip reports   

...anyway, the planning portion of the routes that you can read may be of help. I think some variant of those ideas might appeal to you.

There are many others who should (and probably will) chime in with ideas.

[trtlrock]

A quick note on the water situation:

BiBe is in a massive drought -- springs & creek flow should absolutely not be relied on at this point. If you are trying to whip up an itinerary pretty quickly, it's my humble opinion that you should invest a day at each end of your trip to cache food & water, then retrieve same at end of trip. That's the only way you'll guarantee water & continue to travel light.

Also, the NW portion of the park lends itself very well to x-country & cache-dropping. If you have a GPS and know how to use it, and have maps on it (or paper versions), then you can pretty easily wing something along the lines of the 1st 5-7 days of the Circumnavigating the Chisos trip we did. Maybe something like Rough Run through Slickrock through Onion Flat by Paint Gap through Grapevine through Exhibit Ridge to McKinney, then, if you can swing it, down Tornillo to Banta and out at K-Bar, let's say.

Caches could be easily dropped at/along Rough Run, Oak Ck before Slickrock, Paint Gap, Grapevine, Exhibit, McKinney & K-Bar.

Just some thoughts...

Have fun & don't underestimate the need for caches!

[mule ears]

Welcome to the board brendan!  Quite an ambitious distance for a first trip in the park but like peregrine's first trip a few weeks ago, it can be done.  Just know that this is harsher country than the Colorado plateau as far as rock and cactus is concerned and much less watered, especially this year.

trtlrock is dead on with his comments and I am sure others will add more.

I would not start with the trip I just completed.  I usually suggest to first time visitors to do the OML as it is a great exposure to all the ecosystems of the park.  So I would suggest that maybe you do what is sometimes called the Outer Outer Mountain Loop like this one from championbaum (who is a really fast hiker and familiar with the country) but with some variations like this:

I would leave your car at the Basin and start by going up Pinnacles trail (climb Emory peak), checking and/or getting water in the pools in Boot canyon and then camping at SW3 or somewhere on the SW rim.

Go down Blue Creek and pick up water cached at the Homer Wilson box and then head east on the Dodson and then down the Smoky creek trail.

Smoky creek trail to Mule Ears spring and water then back out Mule Ears trail and then begin some cross country/off trail travel now that you have a couple of days under your belts and some feel for the terrain.  Over to Smoky spring (maybe water but wouldn't count on it) and then up the canyon behind it and over Jack's pass (not marked on any map) to Dominguez spring and sure water.

From Dominguez spring head south out of the mountains to a point where you can cross over to the Backbone Ridge drainage and head up it and over, which ever route you want, to the Elephant tusk trail and then up it towards the Dodson trail near Fresno creek.  Should have water at several places along Fresno.

East again on the Dodson and then up Juniper canyon trail back to Boot canyon and it's water.  Then take the NE rim trail and camp at either NE4 or SE 2 or 3 and then out then next day around the full rim and down Laguna Meadows trail.  It should be about 70 miles or so.

This is the best watered part of the park and even in this year there is some water.  It also gives you the best chances for bail outs or plan B it you need to.

Otherwise you will need to do as trtlrock suggests and do a bunch of water caches that  you can do from the roads and his suggestion of the NW side of the park is a good one.

[brendan]

Thanks a ton for the ideas.  I'll probably have some more questions after looking at maps in more detail.  That outer-outer loop looks like a great option... 

[Homer67]

Lows will be in the 20's...how light a pack can one have on a long hike of this nature when there isn't much water around?  Also, you'll have 10 hour days...

[trtlrock]

Lows will be in the 20's

or lower

Also, you'll have 10 hour days...

yep

how light a pack can one have on a long hike of this nature when there isn't much water around?

Easily 20-30 lbs, but only if you're able to cache. If you're crossing the Dodson, that'll go up, and if you're deep in the Quemada, or doing an O-OML type hike, it'll be higher still.

Also depends on your hiking style: 

http://www.backpackinglight.com/

[brendan]

Easily 20-30 lbs, but only if you're able to cache. If you're crossing the Dodson, that'll go up, and if you're deep in the Quemada, or doing an O-OML type hike, it'll be higher still.

Also depends on your hiking style: 

http://www.backpackinglight.com/

Exactly; our baseweights are usually 5-6 lbs. 

So I've been looking at maps a bit...the route Mule Ears recommended looks perfect.  I also read championbaum's report of his trip.  The only part I was a bit unclear on is the Dominguez Spring to Elephant Tusk trail.  Looks like championbaum headed north from the spring around Dominguez mtn and Mule Ears recommends heading south.  ME, when you say "cross over to the Backbone Ridge drainage and head up it and over", do you mean go around the south side of Backbone Ridge?  Between Backbone Ridge and Elephant Tusk?  From a quick glance at google earth it looks like either would work. 

[TheWildWestGuy]

I would stick to the OML if I were you, it's much safer for you and your wife and thus more enjoyable.  On the OML you can count on water from Fresno Creek and Upper Juniper Springs and in the Tinajas above Boot Spring but you will need to cache water at Homer Wilson Ranch/Blue Creek (there is a bear box for that purpose).  Also be sure to look inside the Bear Box at Juniper Canyon Trailhead because sometimes trail angels leave water there for backpackers.  Upper Juniper Springs can be hard to find but follow the sidetrail from the metal "Juniper Camp" sign and go ~50' uphill from the cement ruins following the metal pipe to the very small (~1'x2') pool.
If you really want to go Cross County from Dominquez to E. Tusk then go North up Fisk Canyon until you find the large drainage that runs along the N. Flank of Dominquez and follow it over to the Tusk.  There is reliable water at Dominquez Springs and another very small spring on the N. Flank of Dominquez Mtn.
But given the very dry conditions and this being your first trip I would recommend not taking such an aggressive plan.  It's very remote and dry and there is no cell phone service or easy bail-out.   Don't underestimate it or you might end up in Laurence Parent's next book.   TWWG

[mule ears]

So I've been looking at maps a bit...the route Mule Ears recommended looks perfect.  I also read championbaum's report of his trip.  The only part I was a bit unclear on is the Dominguez Spring to Elephant Tusk trail.  Looks like championbaum headed north from the spring around Dominguez mtn and Mule Ears recommends heading south.  ME, when you say "cross over to the Backbone Ridge drainage and head up it and over", do you mean go around the south side of Backbone Ridge?  Between Backbone Ridge and Elephant Tusk?  From a quick glance at google earth it looks like either would work.

There are three ways around Domimguez Mtn. as discussed here.  One is the way championbaum went, north of the mountain.  One is south as I have suggested and wide.open.spaces did last year. The last is over the top which I did last month and is the hardest route.

I call the wash between Dominguez mtn. and Backbone Ridge the Backbone wash.  It is a nice walk with at least one spring running right now but you do have to go south down the Dominguez wash/trail a bit to get to a place where you can easily cut over to it.

Exactly; our baseweights are usually 5-6 lbs.

I would like to see that actual list for a desert trip like this.  Everything included.

Lows will be in the 20's

could be but more likely in the 30's (with maybe some 20's on the South Rim)

Also, you'll have 10 hour days...

closer to 11 hours of light, not counting just sunrise to sunset.

[trtlrock]

Big Bend Daily Report:  http://www.nps.gov/bibe/daily_report.htm

probably the most useful forecast link -- usually updated daily

[Al]

Pretty windy.  It's the wind that can get to you.

Al

[brendan]

Again, thanks for all the great info.  Here's my typical desert gear list for low temps of high 20s.  Variations of this have served me well for many many nights in the backcountry.   Please suggest any changes you feel are necessary...
Clothing Worn         
Hats   OR Helios      3.00
Clothing - hiking shirt -   cap 2 ls crew      5.00
Clothing - Base Layer - Underwear   ex officio boxer briefs      3.10
Clothing - Soft Shell - Pants   Patagonia sol patrol      6.00
Footwear - Socks   Darn Tough 1/4 Mesh      1.50
Footwear    Inov-8 285      22.50
Footwear- gaitors   dirty girls      1.50
sunglasses         0.65
      Subtotal   43.25
         
Other Items Worn / Carried         
Trekking Poles   GG LT4      7.20
camera    s90 and extra battery      7.00
      Subtotal   14.20
         
Other Clothing         
Clothing - Wind Shirts   MYOG M90 Hooded      2.50
Clothing - Insulating - Jackets   MYOG down jacket      4.90
Clothing - Raingear - Jackets   none      0.00
Hats   MYOG Fleece      1.00
Gloves   OR PL50       1.00
baselayer pants   cap 2 crew      5.20
      Subtotal   9.40
         
Sleep System         
Shelters - Tarps & Floorless   MYOG cuben cat tarp      7.50
Stakes & Guylines   9” ti-eye   8   2.50
Stakes & Guylines   zpacks zline   50'   0.55
Sleeping Bag   MYOG Quilt- 30 deg      15.00
Sleeping Pad   Kooka Bay 20x48      10.8
polycryo groundsheet/poncho         1.60
      Subtotal   37.95
         
Packing         
Backpacks    myog       22.00
food bags   MYOG cuben bag and 12x20 opsak      1.90
pack liner         1.20
         0.00
      Subtotal   25.10
         
Cooking and Water         
Stove   MYOG caldera/tealight      1.40
Cookware   fosters mug/cozy      1.80
Fuel storage 8oz water bottle .6
First Aide & Survival   mini bic      0.40
Water Bottles   platy 2l x3      2.90
Water Treatment   steripen opti      3.60
         0.00
      Subtotal   10.10
         
Other Essentials         
Lights - Headlamps & Flashlights   Princeton tec EOS      3.00
First Aide & Survival   1st aide and other toiletries in cuben bag      5.00
knife   wegner esquire      0.70
bandana         1.00
      Subtotal   9.70
         

         
Weight Summary         
(1) Total Weight Worn or Carried   3 lb  9 oz (1.63 kg)   57.45   
(2) Total Base Pack Weight   5 lb 12 oz (2.62 kg)   92.25   
   

[Al]

brendan, love the gaiters!  You obviously have it down to a fine art.  What about actual food and water?  Any treats to make for a special moment(s)?  No topo maps or compass? 

Al

[TheWildWestGuy]

I would leave the Steripen at home and bring a water filter or Iodine tablets instead.  Plan on filtering the chunks out with a bandana or camp towel first.  Expect algae in most water sources.