Couple of questions, rigs and driving style

[elhombre]

You haven't said outright, but I will ASSume that both are 4x4s.  I would go with the Yukon for a few reasons.  97 is OBDII compliant and a code reader can be used to tell you what is wrong when it breaks.  Also, the car computer will go into "limp" mode when a major component breaks and it will still drive.  When something on your 90 Sub breaks, it stops for sure.  You will also get much better gas mileage with the newer computer controlled car. 

The only thing that I would consider is that I believe your Sub has a straight front axle while your Yukon has a IFS with CV joint axles.  Real 4 wheeling will be more durable and cheaper to maintain with the solid front axle.  IFS takes tons more money to keep tight and it is no where as strong as a solid axle.  BUT, IFS is a much more enjoyable driving experience especially on fast dirt roads ie. Big Bend.  You have to take a stand on your decision on how hard you want to drive the truck in 4x4.

As for driving on sand, I never jack around in 2 wheel drive.  In 2 wheel drive, once you "start having a problem" only one rear tire will take all the power and that wheel will spin, thus digging a nice deep hole very quickly.  At least in 4x4, one tire in front AND one tire in back will be turning.  The #1 thing you can do to keep from getting stuck in sand is lowering your tire pressure down.  I am talking #20 or less.  You have to look at your sidewalls as you lower the psi to get a real nice bulge so that you increase the surface area patch under each tire.  Don't forget to have a good air compressor ($250) to refill them when you are done.  Cheap ones only have a duty cycle of less than 20%.

[Jimbow]

Thank you. And yes, they are both 4x4. I should have been more specific about the sand, on South Padre, and even south into Mexico when that wasn't a death defying feat, the beaches are packed down pretty well. I have only been stuck a few times. I didn't even need to resort to lowering the pressure. I also assume, and I like your reminder about ASSuming, that lowering the pressure is never a good idea with the rocks.

I am conservative in most outdoor activities, and appreciate a fair margin for error, but I am wondering how necessary that two spares are?

I am looking over the backroads brochure, sadly I have the 1980 printing, and figure I will save west River Road for last. Perhaps trying something less challenging for the first time out. I am also considering which routes leave me close enough to hike out if necessary. And by hiking out I would have my full backpack with plenty of water, tent, bag, etc. Also, we will be down Texas week, so there should be plenty of traffic. The downside of being teachers.

[Al]

Thank you. And yes, they are both 4x4. I should have been more specific about the sand, on South Padre, and even south into Mexico when that wasn't a death defying feat, the beaches are packed down pretty well. I have only been stuck a few times. I didn't even need to resort to lowering the pressure. I also assume, and I like your reminder about ASSuming, that lowering the pressure is never a good idea with the rocks.

I am conservative in most outdoor activities, and appreciate a fair margin for error, but I am wondering how necessary that two spares are?

I am looking over the backroads brochure, sadly I have the 1980 printing, and figure I will save west River Road for last. Perhaps trying something less challenging for the first time out. I am also considering which routes leave me close enough to hike out if necessary. And by hiking out I would have my full backpack with plenty of water, tent, bag, etc. Also, we will be down Texas week, so there should be plenty of traffic. The downside of being teachers.

Don't worry it to death.  Just go!  It's a National Park.  The rangers will provide conservative advise, in my limited experience: follow it.  Old Ore Rd. has cell phone service pretty much down its length although you might have to walk to a high spot, worst case.  Just have all the stuff you would normally have in case you break down along with your camping gear/supplies and some extra water in the unlikely event there a problem and you will be fine. 

I went to Ernst Tinaja in a 1972 2 wheel drive Suburban with no problem from the south end of OOR back when it was much worse than it is now.  Go, enjoy and report back please! 

Al

[Jimbow]

Oh, we are going. We always do. I was just thinking in ten years or so we went from tunnel vision of always backpacking in the Chisos, to dessert hikes, off trail hikes, and now driving the back roads. We just can't get enough of the park.

[Casa Grande]

Speaking I tires, flats, etc.....be sure to bring a plug kit.  9 times of of 10, when you get a flat on these roads, you can plug it up and you're on your way.  I can't tell you how many times I've plugged my tires while going on these roads. 

My last trip back in Nov, a simple rock poked a hole in my tire.  I always carry a plug kit and 12v compressor. I was able to plug the hole (with 2 plugs) after pushing the rock through.  It was about the size of a quarter.  I was on my way within about 30 min.  No tire changing necessary.  But, 12v air compressors are pretty slow. 

I've also had little twigs poke through my tires.  So, if you can fix the tire without even taking it off, you don't have to worry about ruining your spare either, as it's still safely tucked away when you really need it.

[elhombre]

When driving around in Big Bend, you may need to take some air out of your tires.  Most all tire shops now air up your tires to their max in order to save some gas.  The problem is that at full psi, the sidewall is so rigid that the tire will not flex and soak up any of the smallest bumps.  This can be bad in the desert because you have made the contact patch so small that any wheel spin may cause the tire to ride up on a pointed rock and slice itself.  Also the extra hard tire will simple spin out on top of rolling rocks increasing the chance to get cut.

A softer tire will conform to the road and grab better, BUT too much pooch in the side wall will overhang the tread and become more susceptible to cuts.

There are times when you do want to run low psi in the rocks.  In Utah, with a fully loaded car, I run mine down around 20 psi.  The rock is sandstone and the extra contact patch is necessary for driving up road ledges and staying on top of the sand.    Here is a link to the popular Elephant hill in Canyonlands National Park.  http://www.4x4now.com/eh.htm just to wet your appetite what you may want to do in the future.  There are also trip reports on BB chat about some of the places you can visit with a real 4x4 up in the land of Red rocks. ( No Subarus allowed).   

[Zopilote]

Good advice about tire pressure Elhombe. I like to go low pressure on the back roads for the softer ride over rocks, bumps, and washboard. It makes me smile at what i can get away with. The only thing is, side-walls arn't as strong as the old days so i try to buy the extra ply sides. Also, the air pumps in the park are still free so it's no big deal to inflate again. As Al says, "It's a National Park". I even heard it called a "National Parking Lot" I take that to mean that most parks in the nation are geared to maximum, safe, touist use. We are lucky that BiBe is not one of the most visited NP's, yet. I bet the numbers are on the rise. Take care 

[kevint]

I am conservative in most outdoor activities, and appreciate a fair margin for error, but I am wondering how necessary that two spares are?

I believe the general concensus here is that two spares are an overly conservative approach for the National Park.

I am looking over the backroads brochure, sadly I have the 1980 printing, and figure I will save west River Road for last. Perhaps trying something less challenging for the first time out.

I bought my first 4WD vehicle in August and took it on its first trip in December to Big Bend.  We did the Old Ore Road.  It was a good choice--a beautiful drive with a few high clearance sections and some slightly soft dry creek crossings.  I don't think the 4WD was needed but I engaged it on the soft sections and steep gravel climbs non-the-less.  I would recommend it.  It took about 4 hours of drive time plus 4 more hours for picnic lunch at the old McKinney ranchhouse site, lots of picture taking and  hiking and playing around at Ernst Tinaja.  There are a number of campsites along the way.


I bought a set of BF Goodrich All-Terrain KOs before the trip and appreciated the confidence they added.  They have been around a long time and lots of people have had good experience with them.

[Doc Savage]

I was also concerned about pin striping a new truck I was making payments on.

But just think, you have to pay extra for pinstriping from the factory, this way you get it for free... with more personality

We had a saying in an offroad club I was in. "It's not a dent unless you can put your head in it, anything else is just a ding"

As to some of the other discussions, what I've experienced is that most offroad really is the same where ever you do it. It takes thinking and judgement of the particular place you are at. I've had issues with mud on River Road west once and that time tire spin was my friend, on the rocks, not so much. Just be smart and apply what that particular situation calls for.

As to the equipment, I keep my "Jeep Box" in the garage and throw it in when I take a trail ride or head to BIBE. Basic tools I need, straps, D rings, air compressor, tire plug kit, fix a flat, etc. Throw the Hi-Lift jack in but if you use one be CAREFUL.

CB is pretty useless out there unless you are with a group using them to communicate. HAM is your best bet. I've been able to hit the repeaters in most of the park with my Mobile. Big Bend Amature Radio Club has 3 in the area with overlapping coverage from north of Alpine to most of BIBE.

[PacingTheCage]

Bought my first Jeep last year and have wondered what proper tire pressure should be for offroad in BiBe.  I have the BF Goodrich All-Terrain tires.  Last time out I drove the Old Ore Road, River Road, and Black Gap and did nothing with the air pressure.  Yes, it was bumpy but reading this makes me think I need to consider lowering the PSI.  If #20 is right for sand what is right for the typical BiBe road?  Thanks!

[elhombre]

For ME and my overly weighted down Land Cruiser, #20 psi is good for sand/rocks in Utah.  It really depends on how much weight you have riding on your tires.  Your BFGs are about the only street friendly 3 ply sidewall tires out there.  I ride with the same ones also, BUT I get less than 40k miles out of them before they are soooo chunked up, I have to replace them.  My Cruiser weights some where around 6k+ fully loaded.  Your jeep is much lighter.

 The idea is to ride on the road with tires pumped up like steel wheels on a train where they don't flex and give the least amount of rolling resistance due to a small contact patch.  In BB roads, I lower the psi so that the sidewall is more flexible and the contact patch is greater, meaning it holds on to more road. 

Try this, with the fully loaded jeep in the driveway, the tires at high pressure, have your old lady jump up and down on the bumper.  Observe how much the tires flex.  When you are getting ready to ride on BB(dirt) roads, lower psi until you first see the tire drop and pooch out.  Get your old lady to jump again and you should see a marked difference in sidewall flex.   For me this is about 10-15 psi lower than highway pressure.  Usually around 30 psi, down from 45psi.  I run 30 psi in the park, then air up to 45 for the drive home. 

One last thing.  If you are running with BIG wide tires, the contact patch will be greater all the time because your tire is wider.  Meaning less air needs to be removed to increase the contact patch for the same weight.   In other words "It depends........."

[PacingTheCage]

Very helpful!  Thanks

[Jimbow]

Thank you for the thoughts. I had a very nice F150 fall into my lap at a very nice price. So I wound up passing on both of those earlier choices. We are looking forward to the park this fall.

[kevint]

An F-150 is what I drive. Which model/year did you get? 

[Jimbow]

Background; I was looking for something reliable that could tow a pop up or small trailer with 4wd. I also did not want too expensive or I would worry about dings, ''pin stripes'' etc. What I found was a friend of my dad's selling a 2002 XLT 4door Lariat 5.4l 4x4. It has 77,000 miles. The past six years it has been driven about 3,000 per year. Showroom clean. All maintenance done by the clock. The owner also owns a trucking company and knows how to maintain his equipment. He offered it to me at a great deal.

Not the ideal trail vehicle, but about as perfect as I was going to find.