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Big Bend Community => The Fort Davis Board => Topic started by: 19dsniper on June 16, 2017, 04:53:17 PM

Title: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 16, 2017, 04:53:17 PM
Ok guys and girls, the title is real. I spent a little time last week researching as much as i could about Jeff Davis County Texas and what frequencies i could find to plug into my radio for our upcoming Boy Scout trip in a few weeks. We are headed to BTSR in Jeff Davis county. I always plug in local police, fire, ems, ham repeaters, BBARC, etc into my radio before heading out for long scouting events incase of emergency. I have been told that where we will be located on the ranch that the closest phone is miles away and that there is no cell reception. Unfortunately 3 days ago, a young boy died exactly where we are headed in a few weeks. The terrain is rough, and its been hot. It will only be worse when we get there in a few weeks. He was dehydrated and lost consciousness. The adults with the group performed CPR on the young man for approximately an hour and a half before a border patrol helicopter arrived, but by then it was too late.

I bring all this up because i am hoping that someone out there can help me find more frequencies for this specific area. We are leaving for that same spot in a few short weeks, and know that without coms that it could literally mean life or death. If anyone has any frequencies for that area PLEASE share them with me. I was originally going to take my Yaesu because its dual band, but have decided instead to take both my EFJ 5100 because it will do P25 and my Yaesu. I have been licensed by the state of texas as a firefighter/paramedic/ Search and Rescue personnel since 2009, So please don't read me the riot act about how i shouldn't be using any police, fire, ems frequencies. No, i do not work for the county that we are heading into, but if anyone has a problem with me using these frequencies, they can bring it up with me and report me to the FCC if they would like after we get the needed help. It would only be used in a life of death emergency, so I'm still covered there even without the paper trail to back up my use, as the FCC allows communications on those restricted frequencies for the preservation of life. I only bring this up because i asked on a different forum and was read the riot act in public and in PM about how it would be "illegal" for me to use the frequencies even if i had them. Lets all be grown ups about it and understand that if it was your child that we were performing CPR on for an hour and a half, that you would say screw the rules and call for help any way you can!

Any frequencies that you know work will greatly help. If you think that it is a frequency that shouldn't be shared, please feel free to PM me. I am trying to find the Tx, Rx, and PL/NAC codes as well if possible so that we would be able to communicate in an emergency.
I have also looked into renting a Sat phone and the best i can come up with is a 3 day rental during that time frame. I looked into PLB SPOT as well and may still pick one up. I was informed though that if its needed, that the person with the SPOT account is responsible for all bills associated with the emergency response and not the patient. I have worked in search and rescue long enough to know that calling in a helicopter for a rescue can and often does go into the $$$$$$. I may still do this, but would definitely appreciate any frequency help i could get.

Also, does anyone know how well the McDonald Observatory/ Jeff davis BBARC repeater works in jeff davis count? Looking at their coverage map, it is showing that their coverage stops south east of BTSR by a few miles. If i could hit that repeater, and IF someone was listening that would be the best approach. Thats why I'm looking at the other frequencies. Dispatchers are available 24/7 and not just whenever they feel like jumping on the local repeater.

Sorry for the long thread, and thank you in advance for all your help.
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/northeast-tarrant/article155910879.html
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/North-Texas-Boy-Scout-Dies-on-Backpacking-Trip-428551653.html
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Title: Re: Jeff David County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Flash on June 16, 2017, 05:48:58 PM
I have been to BTSR twice for their week long summer camp. In what program will you be participating? If it is regular summer camp program, you and your Scouts will be at Base Camp which is nestled inside a canyon with a creek running down the middle, where there is plenty of water and available shade. It cools off at night being at 5000+ feet. Base Camp has landline phone service, might even have radio. Hundreds of youth and adults enjoy that camp every summer, so I am a bit jealous because that canyon is such a gorgeous place.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: marufo on June 16, 2017, 06:46:23 PM
Sorry dude, but this sounds awfully hinky to me - and your username doesn't help any. What exactly is your responsibility on this trip? Any particular reason you don't think the troop leaders and scout ranch staff have taken appropriate precautions? One mother on Facebook thinks they did.
Quote
Dawn Vanderwarren Dill reviewed Buffalo Trail Scout Ranch
5 star
Yesterday at 1:50am
Want to say Thank you to your staff and leadership during the tragic death of one of our scouts. You guys did everything you needed and more to make sure our Troop was taken care of. They have all made it home and are safe in their family's arms.
I found that other forum; the link is here: http://forums.radioreference.com/texas-radio-discussion-forum/354672-jeff-davis-county-frequencies-needed-due-death.html#post2778300
Quote
I had already decided early on that i was not going to contact the locals and see if they would share their frequencies, as i currently have no justifiable reason to officially request them. But, i may still contact them and see if i could send them my information and see if they would be willing to share based off of circumstances and certifications. I don't expect that to happen, but its possible. We will see.
My emphasis.
Title: Re: Re: Jeff David County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 16, 2017, 07:39:16 PM
We will be participating in the mountain man program and the 50 mile back country program. I understand that they have land lines in camp. We just got back from a meeting about the most recent incident and my current recommendation is that i leave a one of my radios and charger with one of our ASM's that will be at base camp. He is a fellow firefighter/SAR guy. He will have access to power while we are there and can recharge his radio or a spare battery if need be. The current plan is for him to carry a radio and have it on at all times. I will also carry a radio in the back country and we will set up a check in schedule for me to call in and check in. That way i can conserve battery power and not have to worry about leaving it on all the time. It would also allow us to turn on our radio at any time and reach him because his will be on the entire time. We are hoping that this will work in the back country that we are in. We are both familiar with line of site radios and how to extend the range if need be. I carry a roll up Slim Jim that i can run up a tree if i need to get more range in an emergency. Hoping that all of this is a bit extreme and overkill for this situation, but we would rather be prepared. 
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 16, 2017, 07:55:56 PM
As far as the screen name, I'm not sure what you mean that my user name doesn't help any. I can assure you that I'm not some nut  job or a troll. I am a retired soldier. Former 19D with B4 identifier. I have always kept the same screen name regardless of what forum i am on so i don't have to try and keep track of different log in information. It just keeps things easier, which is why i use the same screen name over on that forum and have for the last 3 years. Sorry if it sounds "Hinky" to you..

 I never once placed blame on anyone for the situation, nor did i say that the park hasn't taken any action either before or after this event, appropriate or not. So I'm not quite sure where you are coming from with this. As far as my position, I AM one of those troop leaders that you are referring to and that is why i am concerned and want to make sure that we are looking at every possible way to keep our boys safe while we are out there. Not to sound insensitive of this situation, but i do know that things unfortunately happen like this some times. I did not nor will i place blame on anyone for what happened. If you feel as if i did some how, please point it out so that i can clarify or correct it.  I know that the father himself has stated that he places no blame on BSA, The adults, or the staff and that he still believes in the BSA.

The reason i stated "i currently have no justifiable reason to officially request them" is because i could request them thru internal channels, but i don't think that would be professional because it will cross into my outside and not professional life. However if their frequencies are already common knowledge and listed on public records such as Repeater list, broadcastify, radio reference, etc. or if there are any local ham stations that operate in that area that i don't know about, then there is no reason that i shouldn't go ahead and include them.

 It is a camp that is located in a remote location with the closest Hospital being over an hour away. As such, its not as if we can just throw one of the boys in a vehicle and drive them down the street to the local hospital. When going to remote locations, things like this need to be considered. Im not railing on you in any way, just trying to provide answers to some of your questions.

You asked "Any particular reason you don't think the troop leaders and scout ranch staff have taken appropriate precautions?" Like i said, I AM one of those Troop Leaders and this is one of the ways we are looking at taking appropriate action. Which is why i also stated that we have looked into either a Sat phone or possibly a PLB. But as stated earlier, the person who's name is on the account is the one who gets charged for the response and that is directly from SPOT when i called and spoke with them this morning.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Txlj on June 16, 2017, 08:48:46 PM
Having worked in the area, I dont have the information you need but can say radio signal is spotty at best. Several agencies in the area use sat phones for dispatch and cell phone service is a joke. Also Jeff Davis does not have a hospital I know of, the closest is Alpine. EMS is mostly volunteered for and law enforcement can be limited at night. 

Sent from flat land

Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Quatro on June 17, 2017, 12:19:23 AM
My only info on the death came from the DFW news story and I've never been to the camp.  But the article indicated the Boy Scouts were backpacking in 105 temperatures which sounds a little sketch.  With that little bit of info, I'm surprised the Boy Scouts haven't shut down the camp for a couple of weeks to conduct an eval of what changes might be needed. At a minimum, I'd sure hope that they would provide a Sat phone for your use to alleviate concerns given the apparent lack of radio communications. I can't imagine the parents of the scouts would want their kid to go without a Sat phone.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 17, 2017, 01:18:45 AM
Having worked in the area, I dont have the information you need but can say radio signal is spotty at best. Several agencies in the area use sat phones for dispatch and cell phone service is a joke. Also Jeff Davis does not have a hospital I know of, the closest is Alpine. EMS is mostly volunteered for and law enforcement can be limited at night. 

Sent from flat land

Excellent information! Thank you very much. I haven't been to this area before but have been out to BiBe and BBSP numerous times. At least out there i could reach people on the BBARC linked repeaters in about 85-90% of the park. Once out on river road i couldnt hit the repeater, but once we were on top of Old Ore Mine i was able to get a signal out to the linked repeaters. Cell phone in that area was very spotty at best and if we needed to get on our phone for anything, we finally figured out that we could get 1 bar if we went up to the trading post.
I had looked into Sat phones earlier in the day, and that was brought up by the SM tonight and quickly dismissed because of the cost. I may still go ahead and rent one if its available for the trip. According to the company i spoke with earlier, its a $500 fully refundable deposit, $75 for the first 3 days, and $15 for every day over that. 1 week max, so we will be over by 1 day, which causes it to go back to the $75 for 3 days. Its a crazy system that they have and extremely expensive. It would basically cost us $135 (if i can sweet talk them into not charging us the last day, but not likely) for a phone that we will likely never use. But what is the true cost of peace of mind? Looks like it might just be $135!

I am still giving serious consideration to picking up a SPOT Get 3 as they are running a special right now. 150 for the unit with 75 mail in rebate, and half off the annual plan. That would cost us basically the same amount as the sat phone rental but would be personally owned and good for 1 year before needing to be renewed. I can honestly say that in the event that it was needed, i would not hesitate to push that button if it meant it might help save a life. I just really hope that the parents of that young man would step up and cover the bills when they came in. I would imagine that this situation has happened before where one was used to help a stranger or someone not on the current plan. But, again according to SPOT directly, they bill the account holder for any and all responses. So i can say that there is a little hesitation there, but it still looks like our best bet so far. The best plan i could come up with was to leave a second radio with our other ASM who is also a FF/SAR guy and have him leave it on 24/7. He will be at base camp and will have access to power to keep it charged. The current plan is that we will call in maybe 1-2 times a day at predetermined times to let him know all is good. That way i can preserve battery power and not run it all the time. And yet because his is on constantly, if we have and emergency, i can always turn the radio on and call for help.

I know that the ranch had an active license for a frequency, but I'm not finding anything for a repeater, and it doesn't appear as if they are using the radios. They are licensed for a UHF frequency, at least as of a few years ago. (UPDATE: I just looked it up again and they haven't renewed it since 2003-03-18)

 Hopefully they will start using it again. I wish they had a repeater out there. Maybe they will decide to put one in now especially with the size of this ranch and the programs that they offer.

I won't keep everyone. Thanks again everyone for all your help.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: DesertRatShorty on June 17, 2017, 10:17:45 AM
Check out a company called Mobal for Sat phone rental.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: GaryF on June 17, 2017, 04:04:18 PM
Unless you would also use the Spot for other things, it might be a poor choice. Consider a PLB.

First, the Spot is $150 to purchase, but it also requires a service plan with a 12 month commitment. The cheapest option for a year is going to be $200,  so we are at $350    (Edit: I read past the part where you were getting the unit and the plan at half off. You have obviously already looked closely at the plan costs)

Second, reviews indicate a fairly high message failure rate or delay rate.  When minutes matter this could be critical.

A PLB would cost a little more for the device, but it requires no service plan, and is probably the most reliable option, as well as the cheapest.

A Garmin InReach costs more than the Spot, but you can do the service a month at a time, and if you only use it a month or two a year, you will likely come out $$$ ahead of the Spot within 2-3 years. Another big plus for the InReach is that you can real time text with emergency services and explain the nature of your emergency.  With a PLB or with the Spot, all that the responders know is that somebody pressed the SOS button.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Ranger Tim on June 18, 2017, 11:24:15 AM
With all due respect, dragging a group of scouts into a remote West Texas ranch in the throws of a summer heat wave doesn't sound like the most responsible decision. I spoke with an LE ranger down here a few minutes ago and he suggested that all of those channels you are after are encrypted and he seemed pretty dubious that a scout leader would have access to the kind of technology needed to use it anyhow. I don't really know what to tell you beyond what has already been said,  but PLB's and sat phones are anything but reliable in the Big Bend (but still better than nothing).
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 18, 2017, 01:30:06 PM
Well after numerous recommendations, i continued to dig deeper into many avenues of communication. I will share what i have learned in case anyone else is interested. With the Iridium phones, they are based on a slightly dated satellite technology and have good coverage in certain areas only. Most of the reported frustration comes from the fact that you will most likely have a 50/50 chance of having a signal "right now". The complaints are that as the satellite passes overhead and out of reach that your calls are dropped and that there is no way to know when the next satellite is within reach unless you watch your signal strength on your sat phone. Even then, its not a guarantee, but is reported to be within 6 minutes. Then, when on the phone, you have to keep an eye on it because you will likely loose it within a few minutes again and have to watch your signal strength again for the next satellite. I spoke with some guys that work out in the oil fields and asked them if they had experience with them. They told me they don't use them anymore. From their experience the reception was very spotty, and when they had an accident a number of years ago with one man loosing an arm and another loosing his life, they all tried getting out on their sat phones for help and no one could. According to them, that is when they all decided to ditch the sat phones. There are other companies out there however that seem to be better than others for coverage. With better receptions and faster access.

In looking into the PLB and SPOT type devices. They both definitely have their place IN ADDITION TO other means of communications. The reason i say this is because the PLB is either on or off. Your either calling in ALL the help, or none at all. The PLB is what i would consider the most basic and most reliable means of getting help, and i may still pick one up. The one caveat to it is that you cannot request what level of response is needed. Do you need a Helicopter? If so, its on its way! Do you only need an ambulance to meet you at the trail head and to transport someone to the local hospital? If so, the helicopter is still on its way! In that lies the problem. When using the PLB they send in the Cavalry! Thats great when you need it, but why waist assets, time, money, etc. when all you need is patient transport or BLS (basic life support) service instead of ALS (advanced life support) service. Like i said, there are so many positives to it though, I'm definitely getting one of these if only for our family trips! 5 year battery life, no need to recharge, has test features, waterproof, direct link to satellite and air units, continuous transmission, etc. all positive in my book.
I included the SPOT device in this as well. The difference is that the PLB is monitored by military, civilian aircraft, satellite, etc and will get STRAIGHT to help within 5 minutes or less. With the PLB it signals the SAR guys directly. With the SPOT and similar devices it first goes to GEOS when then calls your emergency contacts for verification. Then if your EC states that "yes, i know there were hiking in the mountains in that location......etc.. . Then GEOS will start to contact whatever local emergency providers that can find. All of this takes time. And what happens if your emergency contact is unavailable? I don't know.... but again, more time.
With both of these devices above, there is no way for them to know what type of emergency you are having. Did you blow out your knee and can't get off the side of a mountain, or do you have someone that is pinned under falling debris, major laceration. They have no idea what they are going to be sent to or how to prepare.

This brings me to Sat phones and the InReach and VHF/UHF. I went over sat phones earlier, but I'm including it in here because even though the InReach is not voice communications,  it is still 2WAY communications.
With the Sat phone, if you can get a call out, you can state the nature of your emergency, location of pickup, means of communication ( frequency, sat phone number), special equipment needed, etc...  (9 line medevac anyone?)
This brings me to VHF/UHF. This is and excellent means of communication as long as someone is LISTENING! Thy have to be within range and actually listening to you. There is no voicemail, or text messages to be read later (yes i am familiar that some new units will do this but not in the SAR capacity). But, when you already have the cavalry on the way, and need a straight line of communication to them, there is nothing quicker as long as you are within range. For the most part, its hard not to be in direct contact with an aircraft that is close by. Yes, these are line of sight radios, but when the aircraft is at a few thousand feet, thats the equivalent of one HUGE antenna!!

 In comes the InReach and similar products. With these you have a way to not only send and receive text messages to loved ones, but also to call for help. Some of the models even have an SOS button on them just like the SPOT and other devices. Again, this goes to a 3rd party group and not directly to search and rescue, so it takes more time. BUT, having 2 way communications will allow you to update either SAR personnel or someone in your contact list with up to date information for relay to rescue personnel. With this, you would be able to start treatment and if need be, move a patient closer to a pick up site and still be able to stay in communication with them to let them know you are moving. You could also request a helicopter at the beginning, and if the pt improves to the point that it is believed that ground transport would be better suited, then you can change your request.

So as you can see, they all work, but work differently. The level of response and time of response all varies. We have always been told to make sure and have 2 means of communication when working in SAR.
My personal experience with these devices is very limited other then the VHF/UHF. I have only had one SAR in which someone had used a PLB and it got us within feet of their location. But like i said, my experience with those is limited to 1.  My means of communications have always been my cellphone, (which is almost never used) and my VHF/UHF radios. We also wear a Garmin Foretrex 401 and it has always been reliable for me. We always take paper maps and a compass. If someone has the means of giving us a grid, awesome! If not, we work off of terrain feature if we were given any, or if we have had no contact with them, we cut sign and start a grid.

RANGER TIM:
Thanks for the message and update. I know where you are coming from with your statement. All i can say is that the camp has been running these same camps and dates for the last 70 years. So for the last 70 summers, the same things have been going on. Now one would hope that by now they would be extremely experienced and have some sort of reliable communication. They do have a hard line (land line) at base camp. As far as being a responsible decision, well thats not exactly up to me. It is up to the committee and the parents. There was a discussion the other day and the decision was made by the committee and parents to continue. I was asked to attend this particular group because of my experience, and fitness. I don't say that to sound cocky in any way, because I'm not a super athlete. Some of the other leaders could not make the height/weight requirements. So, i am going because i was asked to be the leader to participate in this program.

As far as coms. I am very experienced when it comes to not only using coms, but also programming coms. I have my own KVL4000 and have experience programming encryption. Myself and one other are the only 2 to work on any of our radios at the firehouse, and on the SAR radios. We have taught others how to work with them, but when it comes to programming either with CHIRP, PCConfigure, RDX, CP, etc. we are the only 2 that will work with that stuff. The 2 of us were the ones that had to go down and program our police departments radios when they switched over to encryption about 2 years ago.
However, I was never after any encrypted data and if they are truly using encryption then i will drop it completely.  That is something i don't want to touch if it doesn't belong to me.
I wonder if he meant APCO P25 though as it will give clearer coms in areas like that. Im not sure why they would be running encryption on their main dispatch channel. Definitely on their TAC channels with the west side being a border town. But normally encryption is used at times when you have very good reception as the encryption does degrade some of the attenuation of the signal.
Thank you for letting me know that even the sat phones and plbs are spotty out there. I didn't plan on only 1 source of communications, but you let me know that i definitely need 2. So thank you.

Anyways, thanks everyone for all your help. I will update later if i find out anything more. I just figured i would update with a little bit of what i learned in case anyone else is interested in the PLB, Sat phone, InReach stuff for travel out in this area. My family and I will be taking a trip back out to BiBe again after it cools off. We really enjoy spending some winters out there! Its the same place, but starts to look like a while new world if you've ever seen it with snow!
Take care guys and gals!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Ranger Tim on June 18, 2017, 05:49:46 PM
I wish you the best of luck out there,... it is going to be damned hot and I hope that y'all can find good shelter out there.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: badknees on June 18, 2017, 06:17:32 PM
I wish you the best of luck out there,... it is going to be damned hot and I hope that y'all can find good shelter out there.

^^^^What he said +10!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Flash on June 18, 2017, 07:13:19 PM
I wish you the best of luck out there,... it is going to be damned hot and I hope that y'all can find good shelter out there.

^^^^What he said +10!

If they get to go swimming at the "Notch", they will get to cool off something special!  :great:
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 19, 2017, 09:20:02 AM
Thank you for the well wishes.
I have never been to this camp before so I'm not familiar with it yet. I heard mention from someone else that there was some decent places to cool off at base camp. I'm don't yet know where the "Notch" is located, but i can guess based off of the satellite photos i have looked at. Base camp us support to have swimming at least once a day. Hopefully we will have some as well in the back county. Take care guys! I may come back with a picture of 2 and leave a follow up after the trip. We are still 2 weeks out from leaving, so there is still plenty more time for some additional heat to creep in.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Flash on June 19, 2017, 09:42:43 AM
FYI - Here is a link to a topo indicating the location of The Notch (https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=30.8109,-103.963&z=15&b=t). When you hike to it from Base Camp, everyone has to cross the creek 10 or 12 times and WILL get their feet wet. It can be done in Crocks or old tennis shoes. The Notch itself is a splendid swimming hole, deep enough for jumping off the rocky banks.  I would be shocked if the Mountain Man bunch didn't go there at least once, since their camp I believe is closer than Base Camp. Have a great time. Some of the best rock climbing at Scout camps in Texas is found there. "Up on top" is where the most exposure to sun will be, but down in the canyons is where there is shade, trees, and water.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Jimbow on June 21, 2017, 12:32:10 PM
I've been to Buffalo Trails several times and indeed The Notch is a great place to cool off especially when the water is high. I also miss the spring on the way there. I went to BSA camp school a few years ago with some of the staff and am really sad for everyone involved.

There are working phones at the HQs. Air conditioning in the dining hall. Activities are actively monitored. I'm going to assume the Scout was on a back packing adventure or part of the Mountain Man program ( if it is still offered). All other programs are run at base camp so they wouldn't be on a hike like that. 


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Title: Re: Re: Jeff David County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Jimbow on June 21, 2017, 01:18:34 PM
I have been to BTSR twice for their week long summer camp. In what program will you be participating? If it is regular summer camp program, you and your Scouts will be at Base Camp which is nestled inside a canyon with a creek running down the middle, where there is plenty of water and available shade. It cools off at night being at 5000+ feet. Base Camp has landline phone service, might even have radio. Hundreds of youth and adults enjoy that camp every summer, so I am a bit jealous because that canyon is such a gorgeous place.
More like thousands. When I was there they were running eight weeks with 400 campers each week. Great camp with a great staff. I've been in base camp and mountain man. Great place to prepare for Philmont as well.


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 23, 2017, 09:17:58 PM
Jimbow
Thank you for the information. Our boys and leaders will be participating in the Mountain Man program and the Backcountry 50 miler.

"ENDURANCE
Minimum Age=14; Experience = Advanced / Mature; Difficulty = EXTREMELY Difficult; Mileage = ~55-65 miles

This trek is the most difficult and physically taxing program at Buffalo Trail Scout Ranch! Hiking over 50 miles in five days is a proud and difficult accomplishment for those that complete the trek! People cry, feet bleed, and your thighs will feel the burn! Enjoy climbing, team building, and a search and rescue role play as you take the grand tour of the BTSR Outback. Hike over 60 miles through the rugged terrain of the outback AND earn the RR 1832 Marathon award. Trek crews also have the option to earn the 50 miler award."
This is copied directly from their information. We will be participating in these events and we are told that they only take a total of 24. Our troop already has the first 10 reserved spots.
Looking forward to this. They are already registered for Philmont next year and are using this as a great way to enhance their current conditioning.
Glad to hear that there will be the occasional watering hole around to cool off. This is a CO-ED trip based off of the information that i have received, seeing how they allow females in the other programs. So, we may all be jumping in covered head to toe, but its better than nothing. It will make "bathing" interesting.

I will come back later after we get back and try and update with a trip report and some photos. It should be a lot of fun! This is our first time out at BTSR. My son and I have been to Big Bend numerous times, but have never ventured farther north. So its still new to us.
Take care everyone, and thanks for all your help!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Jasonnicholas on June 24, 2017, 07:55:03 AM
PLB SPOT is the way to go in my opinion. That is the best way to "be prepared"! Don't let cost factor in


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: elhombre on June 24, 2017, 09:12:39 AM
I use a sat phone when hiking by myself in Colorado.  It does take a few minutes to get the green light in the valleys, but even in South Colony Lakes (a typical narrow high mountain valley) I had talkable service for 4-5 minutes.  Plenty of time to get a message out. 

As a SAR dude, you know how important it is to have a the best info available so that the RIGHT resources in the CORRECT quantity can be deployed for each emergency.  A two way communication is best for this exchange.  Spots can't do this.  You have bad info on cost, which makes me think you have bad info on coverage and use.  If a sat phone won't work, a radio sure won't work in the same location.

Find the local phone numbers for their 911 systems before leaving.  Besides, if their system is like most, they are set up to transfer phone calls between agencies very easily.  Conversely, when it comes to one agency talking to another agency via their respective radio systems, it turns into a total $--t show because they just don't talk the same way. 

This is who I use in Colorado.  The county SAR people are not going to charge the Sat phone renter anything for a call.
http://www.roadpost.com/Iridium-Satellite-Phone-Rentals-P704C279.aspx?UserID=377215348&SessionID=EV4gbZfpioNWEbEf7Nvp&source=hp#gsc.tab=0
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: presidio on June 25, 2017, 08:32:54 AM
I'm surprised the Boy Scouts haven't shut down the camp for a couple of weeks to conduct an eval of what changes might be needed.

The Boy Scouts are a lot like the NPS. Perceived as professional and competent. Experience says their outdoor judgment is not always what it should be.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on June 26, 2017, 01:10:42 AM
I use a sat phone when hiking by myself in Colorado.  It does take a few minutes to get the green light in the valleys, but even in South Colony Lakes (a typical narrow high mountain valley) I had talkable service for 4-5 minutes.  Plenty of time to get a message out. 

As a SAR dude, you know how important it is to have a the best info available so that the RIGHT resources in the CORRECT quantity can be deployed for each emergency.  A two way communication is best for this exchange.  Spots can't do this.  You have bad info on cost, which makes me think you have bad info on coverage and use.  If a sat phone won't work, a radio sure won't work in the same location.

Find the local phone numbers for their 911 systems before leaving.  Besides, if their system is like most, they are set up to transfer phone calls between agencies very easily.  Conversely, when it comes to one agency talking to another agency via their respective radio systems, it turns into a total $--t show because they just don't talk the same way. 

This is who I use in Colorado.  The county SAR people are not going to charge the Sat phone renter anything for a call.
http://www.roadpost.com/Iridium-Satellite-Phone-Rentals-P704C279.aspx?UserID=377215348&SessionID=EV4gbZfpioNWEbEf7Nvp&source=hp#gsc.tab=0

When speaking with a representative of SPOT PLB directly i was directed to click on numerous items on the page and read thru the fine print. I know that when a call comes into our SAR, that we don't bill them. However, with the SPOT, it states on their website that if emergency personnel aren't available in your area that they send out their own, privately contracted search and rescue. I did not get clarification from them on what the definition of "not available in your area" actually meant. I would guess that it may be situation dependent. If it is a life or death situation and the closest local help is 1-1.5 hours away, they may launch a helicopter to your location to expedite the safety of human life. I don't know if they have written protocol on this or if it is situation dependent. I never got this deep into conversation with them. I was told however that they do charge any and all of these fees to the registered SPOT subscriber. They also offered their insurance plan to me incase it was needed to cover their personal SAR needs. The catch with this is that the insurance is a plan that is on a per person basis. Basically if i purchased a SPOT for my family use, I would have to pay the $17.95 for each member of my family as insurance. So basically, if i wanted to use it for our scout troop, i would have to add every single scout and pay $17.95 per scout and add them to my personal plan. Wether this is correct information or not, I'm unsure, but it is what i was told by their representative. I am including a link that speaks about their plan and insurance stuff.
https://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=104
Like i said, you are correct in that we as SAR don't charge the individual. But what SPOT decides to do in the situation could cause additional charges depending on what they charge. I think that i will move to a different route though after looking at things more. My current position is that taking a Garmin InReach for 2 way communication and a Sat phone is most likely our best bet. I will still take my radio with me because i plan on trying to do a little mountain topping while I'm out there just for fun. It would be great to try and see how far i can hit a repeater with the elevation we will be at, or maybe just some long range simplex stuff. Either way, should be interesting.

Thank you for the link. The previous places i looked had almost an exact and i mean EXACT page, only with a different web address. Prices were different, and were a little extreme. Im definitely interested in calling these guys first thing in the morning to see if i can still get it in time before we leave.

Thanks again everyone!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: fullmetaljacket6793 on June 28, 2017, 07:45:09 AM
Spot is a ripoff. Just get a regular plb that has no subscription and you are much better off in the long run. They are more reliable anyways. Good luck and stay safe


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Flash on June 28, 2017, 09:42:49 PM
I got curious and looked up info on the InReach and found these two pages from the same website especially helpful:

How to Choose a Personal Locator Beacon or Satellite Messenger (http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/camping-and-hiking/best-personal-locator-beacon/buying-advice)

Best Satellite Messengers and Locator Beacons of 2017 (http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/camping-and-hiking/best-personal-locator-beacon)

- Flash
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: venchka on July 01, 2017, 08:29:49 PM
PLB versus SPOT versus InReach.
Transmission power:
PLB - 5 watts for 24 hours.
SPOT/InReach - 0.6 watts and not sure of the time.
Case closed.
Wayne


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: DesertRatShorty on July 01, 2017, 11:10:08 PM
PLB versus SPOT versus InReach.
Transmission power:
PLB - 5 watts for 24 hours.
SPOT/InReach - 0.6 watts and not sure of the time.
Case closed.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The InReach enables two-way text message communication to any cell phone or email, which allows you to explain your needs, and search and rescue teams to set priorities as mentioned by elhombre earlier (although he was referring to satellite phones). In addition, even if you don't have a signal at a given point in time, chances are you will over any stretch of a few minutes as a satellite moves overhead, and your message will go out.

In one sense, the InReach is even better than a satellite phone in that you don't have to sit around waiting for a signal, you just send your message and it will be sent automatically when a signal is detected. On the other hand, once you do get a signal a satellite phone allows you to communicate information more efficiently.

So I would say there's more to it than power. I think the power argument wins out if you plan to be in narrow canyons with limited view of the sky, but otherwise the lower power devices should suffice. I'm currently leaning toward an InReach for my next solo trip.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: venchka on July 04, 2017, 10:05:23 AM
I want my signal heard.
I own a PLB.
Different strokes for different folks.
Wayne


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: GaryF on July 04, 2017, 02:53:50 PM
"So I would say there's more to it than power"

Most definitely. Another consideration is the satellite network.

PLB - Cospas-Sarsat satellites @ 22,000 miles* @ 406mhz @ 5 watts
InReach- Iridium satellites @ 485 miles @ ~1600mhz. @ 1.6 watts
Spot- Globalstar satellites @ 878 miles @ ~1600mhz @ .4 watts

*PLB also has some satellites, at 530 miles, but these are not always within view / range, so there may be a delay in getting a signal out.

Factor all of these in, and it's still not a complete picture.  I tend to agree with Venchka that a PLB is going to be the most reliable in general. But for my use, I might be willing to sacrifice a tiny bit of that reliability for the versatility of something like the InReach.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 10, 2017, 01:17:01 PM
Just a quick update if anyone is interested at all. We just got back from our trip and everything went very well. The staff absolutely put safety first and at no time did i feel as if we were going to have any safety related or even heat related problems. I ended up speaking with some of their staff upon arrival. One of which was a medic. He was quite surprised that with all the questions he was asking everyone about humidity levels, elevation, emergency treatment, etc, that i had the answers to all his questions. Apparently i did alright when preparing for the program that we were about to start. Anyways after speaking with him and spending a little time with some of the other staff members, the discussion of radio coverage come up. I was able to help one of them actually reprogram one of his personal radios. After that and also helping another one with making a counterpoise (after he had questions about mine) we started to discuss radios, equipment, frequencies, and repeaters. As it turns out, the ranch already had 3 ranch repeaters with access to a 4th HAM repeater for those that were licensed hams. After that unfortunate incident last month, they have now added an additional repeater link on the far side of the ranch to give them additional coverage in the back country. I have received a list of all the frequencies and tones directly from the ranch. Anyone who may be interested in these, PM me and we will figure out how to verify the need for them. Not to sound entitled, but I'm not going to publish them publicly and don't plan on giving them to everyone. If you are a Scout Master, or adult leader for an upcoming trip, PM me and then we can move over to our Scouting.org email to verify information before i send anything. The last thing they need is random people on their frequencies as its a huge deal to get everything switched over if they start having problems on the air.

On to other things, we were able to go swimming at the "Notch" on all days except for 1 because of lighting. It was absolutely incredible and regardless of the heat, the water temperature was "brisk" to say the least! Every day it was downright COLD! luckily we were able to adjust to it within a few minutes. We were allowed to swim for up to 3 hours a day (programs depending) and it was something that everyone was appreciative of.

I don't want to take more of everyones time, but if anyone is interested, I may come back and update with some pictures of the Indian paintings, the Needle, etc.
Thanks for all the replies and help guys and galls!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: House Made of Dawn on July 10, 2017, 01:28:18 PM
Well done, man. :great:  And, yes, I'd love to see your pics and read more details. Thanks!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: rocketman on July 10, 2017, 07:28:17 PM
Great news and congrats on a successful outing! Would love to see pics!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Jalco on July 10, 2017, 07:59:27 PM
Glad it all worked out.  And, yes, bring on the pics!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 11, 2017, 04:44:08 PM
ok, well time for me to go back to school. Ive been fighting with this thing trying to upload pictures for the last hour. I now have 3 different copies on my computer at different sizes. Im working on it. Give me time.
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 11, 2017, 04:58:29 PM
ok. I will have to get some help. Ive gone as far as opening the pictures and then taking a screen shot of them to reduce the file size and its still not working. I also previously opened the pictures and changed the settings to 1920x1080 which brought them down as far as 151 Kb and its still telling me the pictures are too large. Im giving up for now till i can get this figured out. Is there a post minimum that maybe i haven't reached?
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: RichardM on July 11, 2017, 05:29:31 PM
ok. I will have to get some help. Ive gone as far as opening the pictures and then taking a screen shot of them to reduce the file size and its still not working. I also previously opened the pictures and changed the settings to 1920x1080 which brought them down as far as 151 Kb and its still telling me the pictures are too large. Im giving up for now till i can get this figured out. Is there a post minimum that maybe i haven't reached?
Not sure what is going on, but keep in mind that the file attachment feature was never intended for images, it's just that it is the quickest and easiest way to post them. Better to use an image hosting site and embed them. See http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/photography-gear-and-tips/how-to-post-pics-on-big-bend-chat!/
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: badknees on July 11, 2017, 10:24:01 PM
ok. I will have to get some help. Ive gone as far as opening the pictures and then taking a screen shot of them to reduce the file size and its still not working. I also previously opened the pictures and changed the settings to 1920x1080 which brought them down as far as 151 Kb and its still telling me the pictures are too large. Im giving up for now till i can get this figured out. Is there a post minimum that maybe i haven't reached?

What are you using to downsize the pic?
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 12, 2017, 03:26:44 PM
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/heading%20to%20the%20trail_zpscfd4jiys.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/heading%20to%20the%20trail_zpscfd4jiys.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 12, 2017, 03:35:07 PM
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/above%20paintings_zpsiqpkgdvf.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/above%20paintings_zpsiqpkgdvf.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/base%20camp_zpsh5emnayu.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/base%20camp_zpsh5emnayu.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/back%20country_zpstingtohr.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/back%20country_zpstingtohr.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/base%20camp%202_zpscxzywknu.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/base%20camp%202_zpscxzywknu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 12, 2017, 03:37:42 PM
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/base%20camp%202_zpsddjnnxmd.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/base%20camp%202_zpsddjnnxmd.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/back%20country_zpsvqukutvh.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/back%20country_zpsvqukutvh.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/btsr%20staff%20radio_zpsv8uw36j9.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/btsr%20staff%20radio_zpsv8uw36j9.jpg.html)
This was one of the BTSR staff members that was using a personal radio to connect to the BTSR repeaters.
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/crossing%20the%20stream_zpseun3xrwm.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/crossing%20the%20stream_zpseun3xrwm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 12, 2017, 03:39:12 PM
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/down%20the%20trail_zpsdbv1ekaw.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/down%20the%20trail_zpsdbv1ekaw.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/camp%20at%20night_zps2siibztm.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/camp%20at%20night_zps2siibztm.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/indian%20paintings_zpsvj4qeaaz.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/indian%20paintings_zpsvj4qeaaz.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/headed%20to%20paintings_zpsjshtmnl7.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/headed%20to%20paintings_zpsjshtmnl7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 12, 2017, 03:40:46 PM
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/full%20moon%20at%20night_zpsqwu0s25q.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/full%20moon%20at%20night_zpsqwu0s25q.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/park%203_zpsunxzqpj8.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/park%203_zpsunxzqpj8.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/park_zpszjmhfo8x.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/park_zpszjmhfo8x.jpg.html)(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/lightning%20bugs_zpsd3hmucva.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/lightning%20bugs_zpsd3hmucva.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 12, 2017, 03:42:11 PM
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/the%20needle%203_zpsv9wls5hk.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/the%20needle%203_zpsv9wls5hk.jpg.html)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/whoami34/the%20needle_zpsutp2nybd.jpg) (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/whoami34/media/the%20needle_zpsutp2nybd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Slimkitty on July 12, 2017, 05:30:17 PM
19dsniper,
Wonderful pics!  It looks like a great place to take a Boy Scout Troop.  I've been watching this post  since you began it and have been quietly rooting for y'all.  I was in a very active Boy Scout troop.  We were a bunch of Louisiana country boys but our troop leaders were dedicated to getting us out to see as much as we could. Philmont, Northern Tier on the MN/Canada boundary waters, the Jamboree. . . I'd done them all and many other minor trips by the time I was 15.  I didn't even finish scouts (I got "too cool" and dropped out) but to this day I look back on those experiences as some of the greatest moments in my life.  I commend the efforts you took to make sure your boys could safely enjoy this beautiful place.  I will be waiting impatiently for years for my own baby boy to reach the age when he can be a Scout and go on some of these trips himself (with me tagging along, hopefully).


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: iCe on July 12, 2017, 09:48:18 PM
Love the pictographs and night shots... and the other shots! That looks like a great place
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 13, 2017, 06:49:56 PM
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. We had a wonderful time there. Hopefully we will have a chance to do it again. My son had to stay at base camp for the duration. Unfortunately he was too young to attend any of the High Adventure stuff just yet. Thats ok though, he was able to stay and work on a number of Merit Badges that he has been looking forward to earning. It was an incredible place to visit thats for sure! Such a difference between Fort Davis and BiBe. Well kinda. The biggest difference was the fact that Fort Davis actually had the green stuff everywhere and water flowing thru a lot of the mountains. I have yet to see that at BiBe except out at the Window.

Next year we will be taking the boys to Philmont. I am still undecided if i am going to go or not as my son is not yet old enough for that one either. So i have to decide wether to go with the Troop, as they NEED another adult, or to wait and go with my son when he is old enough. I will still go with him when it is his time regardless, just not sure if I'm better off going next year and being able to share some experiences with him, or having that special moment when all of that is new to both of us. I guess it will depend on wether or not the troop can find another adult to fill in if i can't or decide not to attend next year. We shall see.

I hope all the best for you and yours! We have always enjoyed our time with the scouts and i truly believe that great leaders are made in the BSA. Every male for the last 3 generations on my wifes side of the family has been an Eagle scout and her grandfather was "Chief Driving Rain".
https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say-bio-william-e-burns
Take care!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: Slimkitty on July 13, 2017, 09:44:25 PM
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. We had a wonderful time there. Hopefully we will have a chance to do it again. My son had to stay at base camp for the duration. Unfortunately he was too young to attend any of the High Adventure stuff just yet. Thats ok though, he was able to stay and work on a number of Merit Badges that he has been looking forward to earning. It was an incredible place to visit thats for sure! Such a difference between Fort Davis and BiBe. Well kinda. The biggest difference was the fact that Fort Davis actually had the green stuff everywhere and water flowing thru a lot of the mountains. I have yet to see that at BiBe except out at the Window.

Next year we will be taking the boys to Philmont. I am still undecided if i am going to go or not as my son is not yet old enough for that one either. So i have to decide wether to go with the Troop, as they NEED another adult, or to wait and go with my son when he is old enough. I will still go with him when it is his time regardless, just not sure if I'm better off going next year and being able to share some experiences with him, or having that special moment when all of that is new to both of us. I guess it will depend on wether or not the troop can find another adult to fill in if i can't or decide not to attend next year. We shall see.

I hope all the best for you and yours! We have always enjoyed our time with the scouts and i truly believe that great leaders are made in the BSA. Every male for the last 3 generations on my wifes side of the family has been an Eagle scout and her grandfather was "Chief Driving Rain".
https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say-bio-william-e-burns
Take care!

Chief Driving Rain!  That's awesome.  I agree that BSA produces great men.  My own grandfather was an Eagle Scout, and he went on to be a Lieutenant General in the Air Force.  I have his merit badge sash, and boy does it put the one I had to shame!  I know it's a little off topic, and I am bragging on him a bit,but I'm proud to share the same name as the man:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilson_Carpenter_III


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Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 13, 2017, 11:03:06 PM
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. We had a wonderful time there. Hopefully we will have a chance to do it again. My son had to stay at base camp for the duration. Unfortunately he was too young to attend any of the High Adventure stuff just yet. Thats ok though, he was able to stay and work on a number of Merit Badges that he has been looking forward to earning. It was an incredible place to visit thats for sure! Such a difference between Fort Davis and BiBe. Well kinda. The biggest difference was the fact that Fort Davis actually had the green stuff everywhere and water flowing thru a lot of the mountains. I have yet to see that at BiBe except out at the Window.

Next year we will be taking the boys to Philmont. I am still undecided if i am going to go or not as my son is not yet old enough for that one either. So i have to decide wether to go with the Troop, as they NEED another adult, or to wait and go with my son when he is old enough. I will still go with him when it is his time regardless, just not sure if I'm better off going next year and being able to share some experiences with him, or having that special moment when all of that is new to both of us. I guess it will depend on wether or not the troop can find another adult to fill in if i can't or decide not to attend next year. We shall see.

I hope all the best for you and yours! We have always enjoyed our time with the scouts and i truly believe that great leaders are made in the BSA. Every male for the last 3 generations on my wifes side of the family has been an Eagle scout and her grandfather was "Chief Driving Rain".
https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say-bio-william-e-burns
Take care!

Chief Driving Rain!  That's awesome.  I agree that BSA produces great men.  My own grandfather was an Eagle Scout, and he went on to be a Lieutenant General in the Air Force.  I have his merit badge sash, and boy does it put the one I had to shame!  I know it's a little off topic, and I am bragging on him a bit,but I'm proud to share the same name as the man:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilson_Carpenter_III


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Thats incredible! I took a little time to read up on your grandfather. He was a very impressive service member! He has a lot of highly prestigious awards, regardless of the rank. The rank is impressive by itself, but the stories that go with those awards are what makes the man, not the rank he wears on his shoulder. I digress. I know I am 21 years too late as i see he has already passed and I wish i could have thanked him myself, but i want you to know that i appreciate your grandfathers service. I have a soft spot for the WW2 vets for some reason, and all veterans. But especially the WW2 guys. I still look at the remaining few as the Greatest Generation. Guys that didn't brag about where they have been, what they have done, or what went on. They showed up, did their job, came back and got back to work! Some made a career out of it. Others did what had to be done and moved on. I respect the hell out of guys like that. Thank you for sharing that with me. I am going to look into him some more and see if i can find some books about him or something. I would love to hear the stories behind how he was awarded 3 Silver Stars! I can't imagine what he went thru to be awarded 3 of them. Thats incredible!!
Anyways, If you still have anyone in your family that is in or has been in the service, let them know that from one vet to another, that i say THANK YOU!
That goes to anyone else out there that may be reading this. If you or a family member have served, I say Thank you from the bottom of my heart and wish you and yours the best!
Title: Re: Jeff Davis County frequencies needed due to no coms/ death.
Post by: 19dsniper on July 13, 2017, 11:10:17 PM
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. We had a wonderful time there. Hopefully we will have a chance to do it again. My son had to stay at base camp for the duration. Unfortunately he was too young to attend any of the High Adventure stuff just yet. Thats ok though, he was able to stay and work on a number of Merit Badges that he has been looking forward to earning. It was an incredible place to visit thats for sure! Such a difference between Fort Davis and BiBe. Well kinda. The biggest difference was the fact that Fort Davis actually had the green stuff everywhere and water flowing thru a lot of the mountains. I have yet to see that at BiBe except out at the Window.

Next year we will be taking the boys to Philmont. I am still undecided if i am going to go or not as my son is not yet old enough for that one either. So i have to decide wether to go with the Troop, as they NEED another adult, or to wait and go with my son when he is old enough. I will still go with him when it is his time regardless, just not sure if I'm better off going next year and being able to share some experiences with him, or having that special moment when all of that is new to both of us. I guess it will depend on wether or not the troop can find another adult to fill in if i can't or decide not to attend next year. We shall see.

I hope all the best for you and yours! We have always enjoyed our time with the scouts and i truly believe that great leaders are made in the BSA. Every male for the last 3 generations on my wifes side of the family has been an Eagle scout and her grandfather was "Chief Driving Rain".
https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say-bio-william-e-burns
Take care!

Chief Driving Rain!  That's awesome.  I agree that BSA produces great men.  My own grandfather was an Eagle Scout, and he went on to be a Lieutenant General in the Air Force.  I have his merit badge sash, and boy does it put the one I had to shame!  I know it's a little off topic, and I am bragging on him a bit,but I'm proud to share the same name as the man:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilson_Carpenter_III


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Thats incredible! I took a little time to read up on your grandfather. He was a very impressive service member! He has a lot of highly prestigious awards, regardless of the rank. The rank is impressive by itself, but the stories that go with those awards are what makes the man, not the rank he wears on his shoulder. I digress. I know I am 21 years too late as i see he has already passed and I wish i could have thanked him myself, but i want you to know that i appreciate your grandfathers service. I have a soft spot for the WW2 vets for some reason, and all veterans. But especially the WW2 guys. I still look at the remaining few as the Greatest Generation. Guys that didn't brag about where they have been, what they have done, or what went on. They showed up, did their job, came back and got back to work! Some made a career out of it. Others did what had to be done and moved on. I respect the hell out of guys like that. Thank you for sharing that with me. I am going to look into him some more and see if i can find some books about him or something. I would love to hear the stories behind how he was awarded 3 Silver Stars! I can't imagine what he went thru to be awarded 3 of them. Thats incredible!!
Anyways, If you still have anyone in your family that is in or has been in the service, let them know that from one vet to another, that i say THANK YOU!
That goes to anyone else out there that may be reading this. If you or a family member have served, I say Thank you from the bottom of my heart and wish you and yours the best!

Ok, so after a little more reading i see what his ranks were when he was awarded a lot of his medals. No offense, a lot of those awards are given to higher ranking military men and women.... But not your grandfather!!! He was like Audie Murphy!!! Seriously, thank you for sharing. Im letting my OCD kick in and I'm kinda dorking out a little. I truly enjoy history and I'm excited to learn more and share the stories I'm reading about him with my son tomorrow!